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Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
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Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 5th 2011, 11:13 AM

Read first:

http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/obese-...-adoption.html

I'm generally more inclined to think that if someone's obese, in most cases it's their own fault, whether it's lack of exercise, or bad diet. But you can't blame kids up to 11 years old for their bad diet or lack of exercise. It's the parents' job to get them decent food etc.

Anyhow... I think the parents are in the wrong, but NO ONE, should EVER have the right or power to take kids away from their parents over something like this. I felt offended reading it. Where do you draw the line? Are we gonna have social workers taking kids away from the parents because an 11 year old kid managed to sneak a beer into his room, or sneak a PS3 game rated 18?

Like I said, no one should have the power to take away someone else's kids, unless of course the parents agree to it*, or the parents are mentally ill somehow or actively abusing the kids, or deliberately and consecutively breaking the law.

*I'd say unless the kids agree to it too, but I don't think it's right to force someone to bring up their kids if they don't want to, even if they are their own. It could be bad for the kids.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 5th 2011, 04:10 PM

In no way do I agree that contact should be cut. AT ALL.

That being said, if they had three years to get their kids healthier and they didn't, then I'd have to consider the possibility of changing the environment for the children. It is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their children are healthy, and growing up obese does not make you healthy. Children get taken away for being too underweight and not being fed properly, so why is overfeeding/feeding all junk food without nutritional value/etc any better? Being very underweight and very overweight are both not okay to me. Again, this being said, I feel like they should have been provided with ways to do what they were expected. It says they tried with no results, and if they did exercise and eat healthy they should have been provided a doctor to make sure something else wasn't going on, as well as a nutritionist because sometimes people think they're eating healthy and they're not.

So do I agree with possibly taking children away from parents if they're obese and nothing is being done to help it? Yeah. Do I agree with how this situation is? Not at all.



"We all have battle scars, Finn. Suck it up and build a brace for yours."
   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 6th 2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloserToTheClouds View Post
It is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their children are healthy, and growing up obese does not make you healthy. Children get taken away for being too underweight and not being fed properly, so why is overfeeding/feeding all junk food without nutritional value/etc any better?
It's not any better. In my opinion I don't think it's a good idea to take the kids away from the parents for either of these reasons, unless of course the parents are deliberately harming them, as in, they have the money to buy food for everyone in the family, but don't bother.

Like you said, the government should provide resources to such parents if they care so much about the well being of the kids. If the kids are starving, perhaps there should be some food allowance for the family, and some measures to regulate and enforce it. If the kids are obese on the other hand, then what you suggested applies.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 6th 2011, 01:36 PM

*This is coming from a US perspective sooo *

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloserToTheClouds View Post
In no way do I agree that contact should be cut. AT ALL.

That being said, if they had three years to get their kids healthier and they didn't, then I'd have to consider the possibility of changing the environment for the children. It is the responsibility of the parents to make sure their children are healthy, and growing up obese does not make you healthy. Children get taken away for being too underweight and not being fed properly, so why is overfeeding/feeding all junk food without nutritional value/etc any better? Being very underweight and very overweight are both not okay to me. Again, this being said, I feel like they should have been provided with ways to do what they were expected. It says they tried with no results, and if they did exercise and eat healthy they should have been provided a doctor to make sure something else wasn't going on, as well as a nutritionist because sometimes people think they're eating healthy and they're not.

So do I agree with possibly taking children away from parents if they're obese and nothing is being done to help it? Yeah. Do I agree with how this situation is? Not at all.
Why should provide them with more resources then they already were given? Why shouldn't the adults act like responsible mature adults and take care of their kids? They were given 3 years to make sure the kids were in a healthy environment, but they failed. Imagine the continued deteriorating health these kids would face when they became teenagers.

I don't know how everything is run over in the UK but as far as health relalted subjects when it comes to food is concerned in the US, we have so many resources it's not even funny.

The mother, aged 42, told the Mail on Sunday: "They picked on us because of our size to start with and they just haven't let go, despite the fact we've done everything to lose weight and meet their demands."

Oh, give me a break. Quit making excueses for immature behavior, for allowing your kids to slowly kill themselves. Grow a pair and act like adults. 3 years is more then enough to loose the needed weight in order to reach a normal, healthy weight. And from the quote, it seems to reflect that the parents are also overweight. Gotta love the good role models there. :rollseyes:

I do find it curious that in the news artical, it did not mention the kids before and after weight.
   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 6th 2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
*This is coming from a US perspective sooo *



Why should provide them with more resources then they already were given? Why shouldn't the adults act like responsible mature adults and take care of their kids? They were given 3 years to make sure the kids were in a healthy environment, but they failed. Imagine the continued deteriorating health these kids would face when they became teenagers.

I don't know how everything is run over in the UK but as far as health relalted subjects when it comes to food is concerned in the US, we have so many resources it's not even funny.

The mother, aged 42, told the Mail on Sunday: "They picked on us because of our size to start with and they just haven't let go, despite the fact we've done everything to lose weight and meet their demands."

Oh, give me a break. Quit making excueses for immature behavior, for allowing your kids to slowly kill themselves. Grow a pair and act like adults. 3 years is more then enough to loose the needed weight in order to reach a normal, healthy weight. And from the quote, it seems to reflect that the parents are also overweight. Gotta love the good role models there. :rollseyes:

I do find it curious that in the news artical, it did not mention the kids before and after weight.
I'm also in the United States. But I don't feel like I know the full story to know exactly what resources they used. I do know people that would not be able to lose much weight over three years. Now, if it told us the kids' diet and activity for three years I might be able to decide if they did all they could or not. It also depends on their income, the areas I have lived in sell junk food a lot cheaper than healthy food. And again, I have found that a great deal of Americans think they eat healthy, when they don't really know what healthy is. I'm not sure why you're pointing out the consequences of the kids' health now for when they're teenagers, because I've already pretty much stated I agree with taking kids away if they're overweight and their parents aren't doing anything about it.



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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 6th 2011, 08:07 PM

As a bit of background information, Dundee Council would not be legally permitted to take this course of action were welfare issues not evident - the level of seriousness for a family court to authorise intervention in this manner is quite high. The fact that there have been supervision orders and other measures taken suggests there is more to this than simply a question of too many sweets after mealtimes or such like.

Anyway, leaving the above aside I am divided on this one. On the one hand, I can see that the council wouldn't make this kind of warning unless they felt it was absolutely necessary - Social Services prefer to keep families together if at all possible, not split them up. On the other hand, it is a significant infringement of the right to privacy and family life and one which could spell trouble down the line if it becomes a precedent. I don't subscribe to "slippery slope" arguments but once you authorise intervention on one ground you will inevitably get people trying to use other grounds for the same thing, and even if the courts reject them it could end up being a mess anyway. As the article says, this is unprecedented and that is always a bit of a danger zone when it comes to the law. So yeah, really not sure on this one.


"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

However bleak things seem, however insurmountable the darkness appears, remember that you have worth and nothing can take that away.

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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick
   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 6th 2011, 11:04 PM

I'm naturally biased against social workers. I've heard a lot of stories of them interfering in things they shouldn't. Even personally know someone at the receiving end of the shit system. I won't go into the details of it, it makes me sick. Regardless what the law is, it's still written and interpreted by people... and the job of a social worker attracts certain types of people: either those that genuinely want to help, or those that want an opportunity to control and manipulate others to get some sort of a buzz out of it. Unfortunately you only need a small minority of the latter to completely fuck any system up.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Parents to have their kids taken away by force... - September 7th 2011, 12:07 AM

The article I read (also the Daily Mail one so possibly limited accuracy :P) said that the family were supervised during mealtimes with social workers writing down what they ate, but giving no guidance as to what they should be eating.. which makes just about no sense! Surely the whole point of moving them into council supervised accomodation would be to help the kids to eat healthily not just to watch them make mistakes.
As someone said, perhaps there are other welfare issues, but weight has been presented as the main one, and there are thousands of families in the UK with overweight kids who are left alone.
   
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