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FlyingTrue Offline
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Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 15th 2011, 08:01 PM

In Kentucky a group of Amish were given tickets for not using reflective orange triangles on their buggies. They claim that using them violates their religious beliefs. After refusing to pay the fines they were put in jail.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/0...le-on-buggies/

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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 15th 2011, 08:12 PM

This is a little sad. They're doing all they can to stay safe and respect the law while following their religion. I hope they are able to serve their sentences quickly so they can be with their families again soon.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 15th 2011, 08:24 PM

I get that they've tried to make their vehicles visible in a way that is acceptable to their religion. But I can also completely understand why they were prosecuted- the law is there for a reason and no religion (or opinion, or political party, or anything..) should allow people to break it, even for something as seemingly trivial as this.
   
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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 15th 2011, 11:29 PM

Freedom of religion does not give you the right to ignore the law. If you feel that the law is unjust, then seek to change the law. I very have limited sympathy for those who simply ignore it, then cry foul afterward.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 16th 2011, 12:50 AM

The benefit in terms of public safety here is far outweighed by the rights of the Amish.
   
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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 16th 2011, 05:02 AM

Good, I'm glad. If the law says they have to use orange safety triangles on their buggies, then lanterns, red reflectors and reflective tape aren't proper. The law is something people all have to obey, not something that can be negotiated because it infringes on a religion. I have zero sympathy for them and am glad as they intentionally ignored the law (hence knew they were doing a criminal act), then bitched about the law once charged. If I were in charge of the jail, I would have them wear orange jump suits because that is what the inmates are meant to wear (I assume so) regardless of religion.

Saying the law has been selectively applied against them is bullshit, if they want to bitch about the law being unfair, then they should seek to change it, otherwise, obey it. The third option is leave the area where that law is applied to, even if it means leaving the country. Before they do so, they should read up on the law as they clearly don't understand the concept of freedom of religious expression.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 16th 2011, 07:26 AM

You either follow the law, or you deal with and accept the consequences. Religion is not an excuse to law breaking.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 18th 2011, 01:21 AM

It is a little sad but the law out-weighs religious belief's. The Amish men also have to realize this is the 21st century, whereas there are way more cars then buggies now, and that without the orange triangles they are potentially causing a risk for themselves to get hit by a car.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 18th 2011, 01:41 AM

The Amish do not want to be forced into dependence on others that would effectively end their way of life. This kind of law is a step toward that dependence.

I think that kind of freedom is important and is something that ought to be maximized when possible.

It is not a good argument to say that the law should trump religion by virtue of the fact that it is the law. If the law is going to suppress a religion, it ought to have a good reason for doing so.



   
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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 18th 2011, 01:57 AM

They could amend the law so that it only requires some type of reflective tape, the article did say they are allowed to use it. That way the issues surrounding it could be resolved, but since politics are slow moving and someone would have to suggest that at a counsel meeting, it probably won't happen.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 18th 2011, 04:35 PM

I'm not sure where I stand on this, they were using reflective tape that fit with their religion which should be allowed, but I dislike how the Amish seem to get out of legal requirements citing religious freedom as their excuse for not complying (ex: no social security numbers, taxes etc.). If the state requires something for safety purposes they should have to comply it's to keep their buggies from getting hit by cars at night. Even people with strong faith in God can get hit by a car. I'd think that God would understand if that's what they're worried about and the refusal to pay the fine should lead to jail.


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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 18th 2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:
It is not a good argument to say that the law should trump religion by virtue of the fact that it is the law. If the law is going to suppress a religion, it ought to have a good reason for doing so.
Yes it is. The law is created for a reason; in this case, someone somewhere decreed that an orange triangle is necessary for safety reasons. This law was not created in order to supress religion. The point of law is that it applies equally to everyone.
   
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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 19th 2011, 02:11 AM

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Originally Posted by dancinfool View Post
The point of law is that it applies equally to everyone.
[Citation needed]
   
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Re: Amish Men Jailed For Not Using Orange Safety Triangle on Buggies - September 20th 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
The Amish do not want to be forced into dependence on others that would effectively end their way of life. This kind of law is a step toward that dependence.
How is it a step toward dependence? All they have to do is buy a cheap little orange safety triangle and put it on their buggy. They can still be as independent as they were before this incident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
I think that kind of freedom is important and is something that ought to be maximized when possible.
Agreed, it should be maximized when possible but only for a valid reason. I don't consider this to be a valid reason because the government decided the orange safety triangles are better seen than other stuff (purely a guess for why that law was put in place). Changing the law to maximize their freedom means that the larger population is now at greater risk because a safety tool was removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream View Post
It is not a good argument to say that the law should trump religion by virtue of the fact that it is the law. If the law is going to suppress a religion, it ought to have a good reason for doing so.
The law isn't aimed directly at suppressing religion. It's aimed at anyone driving a slow-moving vehicle, the driver's religious beliefs are irrelevant. The law was put in place to maximize road safety because I assume the orange triangles can be seen better (or for some other reason that emphasizes safety on the roads). By ignoring the law, they're not only putting themselves in danger, they're also putting other motorists in danger as they may be unaware they buggy is there or cannot see a slow-moving vehicle is near-by. The law shouldn't be amended simply because it doesn't fit with certain religious beliefs as that opens the door for everyone to want laws amended for religious beliefs. By being inflexible with the religion, it prevents such change for religious reasons and re-affirms the law.

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I'm not sure where I stand on this, they were using reflective tape that fit with their religion which should be allowed
The law shouldn't be changed because they refuse to use orange triangles. It's nice that they tried to comply with the law but it's not a matter of coming within range of obeying the law, it's a hit-or-miss matter, either you obey it or you don't. They tried to keep their buggies safe, so pat on the head for that but they did it in ways that failed to meet the law's specifications. The tape is allowed, nobody said otherwise but the tape is insufficient. If they want to keep using the tape, then I hope they keep getting jailed not because I have any prejudice against them, rather they're jailed for being too stubborn and assuming their religion trumps the law. It's a simple change, very easy one and they refuse. On a side note, they should be put into the orange jail jumpsuits like the rest of the inmates. I don't care what their religion is, it doesn't make them special, they're the same as every other human being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate* View Post
but I dislike how the Amish seem to get out of legal requirements citing religious freedom as their excuse for not complying (ex: no social security numbers, taxes etc.). If the state requires something for safety purposes they should have to comply it's to keep their buggies from getting hit by cars at night. Even people with strong faith in God can get hit by a car. I'd think that God would understand if that's what they're worried about and the refusal to pay the fine should lead to jail.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonxNinjas View Post
It is a little sad but the law out-weighs religious belief's.
What about this is a little sad to you? For me, it's a little sad they weren't given the same orange jail county clothing and that they try to bend the law by screaming, "BUT IT VIOLATES MY RELIGION, SO NO!". I don't care if it violates their religion, they violated the law and for that they should be punished in the same way as any other person who violated that same law, even if it includes impounding their buggy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonxNinjas View Post
The Amish men also have to realize this is the 21st century, whereas there are way more cars then buggies now, and that without the orange triangles they are potentially causing a risk for themselves to get hit by a car.
Maybe they're hoping god will lend a helping hand and knock away a car that's about to hit their buggy, LOL. Anyway, if their buggy were hit by a car because the car couldn't see the illegal buggy, I'd hope the Amish men could realize a small cheap plastic triangle is not worth more than the lives of people. In their deluded ways it is.


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Last edited by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!; September 20th 2011 at 07:53 AM.
   
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