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Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 01:53 AM

From the country that brought you the Amanda Knox saga...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/9593123.stm

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  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 02:23 AM

Charging people......with a crime.....because they couldn't predict an earthquake.....


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  (#3 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 02:40 AM

I feel the need to correct you that they are charged with MANSLAUGHTER, not murder. The charges -are- different. The whole thing is still stupid, considering seismologists can't make accurate predictions all the time anyway... It's as stupid as someone attempting to sue a meteoroligist for ruining their beach vacation with rain/thunderstorms because the meteoroligist predicted it would be sunny. SO stupid.


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  (#4 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 03:44 AM

Quote:
The prosecution team said they never intended to put science on trial, that they know it is not possible to predict an earthquake.
What they are questioning is whether the six scientists and the official on trial, who together constitute Italy's Commission of Grand Risks, did their jobs properly.
That is, did they weigh up all the risks, and communicate these clearly to the authorities seeking their advice?
"Risks" are a probability, not factual, so seismologists can only estimate and somehow these scientific estimations will be challenged by the prosecution without examining the science behind the estimations. I don't know how that's possible but it'll be interesting to see.

The prosecution also wants to challenge whether the scientific estimations were clearly communicated. How is it possible to examine the clarity without examining the scientific estimations in a way that does not challenge the science that gives the estimations meaning?



To me, this seems to rely on making the local jury emotionally riled up because I cant see how it is possible in any other way.


What's next, charging a meterologist for not correctly predicting a thunder storm where someone was in that storm and was killed by a lightning strike?


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 09:15 AM

This is so stupid.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 11:24 AM

I guess it falls under criminal negligence... an aspect of law all professionals encounter at some point. Still, it's dumb. There's criminal negligence that applies to a structural engineer for screwing up load calculations on a building and it collapsing because of it. If those scientists had a specific job of predicting earthquakes and failed completely to even notice that there is a chance of that one happening, then I guess at least some fault is theirs, but not manslaughter ffs.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 10:28 PM

I guess it depends which way you look at it.

Their job is to monitor and predict earthquakes. The purpose is to save lives.


They failed in their job to monitor and predict this earthquake, and their incompetence cost many lives. So in that aspect, they're indirectly responsible for all the lives lost, hence Manslaughter and not Murder.

Then again, it's hard to predict earthquakes especially in active zones, and Italy is relatively active from what I've heard. Their job isn't easy. But then on the other side of my mind is the other side "If they'd done their jobs effectively, lives would have been saved". Not sure if I support it or not.


Worth noting they haven't been convicted yet.


I think that if they had known about the earthquake but done nothing then they should be charged with murder, but it seems they had no knowledge, so they just weren't doing their jobs very well.

Last edited by forfrosne; September 20th 2011 at 10:36 PM.
   
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 20th 2011, 11:27 PM



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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 01:25 AM

What a crock they can't be charged.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
I guess it depends which way you look at it.

Their job is to monitor and predict earthquakes. The purpose is to save lives.


They failed in their job to monitor and predict this earthquake, and their incompetence cost many lives. So in that aspect, they're indirectly responsible for all the lives lost, hence Manslaughter and not Murder.

Then again, it's hard to predict earthquakes especially in active zones, and Italy is relatively active from what I've heard. Their job isn't easy. But then on the other side of my mind is the other side "If they'd done their jobs effectively, lives would have been saved". Not sure if I support it or not.


Worth noting they haven't been convicted yet.


I think that if they had known about the earthquake but done nothing then they should be charged with murder, but it seems they had no knowledge, so they just weren't doing their jobs very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF View Post
I guess it falls under criminal negligence... an aspect of law all professionals encounter at some point. Still, it's dumb. There's criminal negligence that applies to a structural engineer for screwing up load calculations on a building and it collapsing because of it. If those scientists had a specific job of predicting earthquakes and failed completely to even notice that there is a chance of that one happening, then I guess at least some fault is theirs, but not manslaughter ffs.

I have noticed that many people talking about this have neglected that fact that it is impossible to predict earthquakes. There is literally no physical way on earth to predict an earthquake. If there was, countless lives would be saved, but there simply isn't. The best we can do is estimate when and where an earthquake could occur, and even then, it's often wrong.

This is quoted from the BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14981921)

Quote:
Prosecutors allege the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake after studying hundreds of tremors that had shaken the city.
The defence argues that there is no way to predict major earthquakes even in a seismically active area.
Quote:
Prosecutors allege the defendants gave a falsely reassuring statement before the quake after studying hundreds of tremors that had shaken the city.
See that? A "falsely reassuring statement". This is how difficult it is to warn the public. You could be issuing statements saying there is an imminent earthquake, and then have it never happen, causing people to brush off all other statements, and when an earthquake does strike, they aren't prepared. Or you can issue 'reassuring statements' until you are more sure there is a risk, and have everyone still be unprepared and at great risk when an earthquake does strike.

In my opinion, (and as a geology student), this is beyond belief, and shocking.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 10:58 AM

If the scientists put the public on red alert every time there was a small termor in the country, they'd eventually be charged and/or fired for time wasting. You just can't win with some people.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 01:59 PM

Well.. it's more the equipment than the scientists....
BURN THE EQUIPMENT




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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 04:25 PM

Why is everybody so quick to blame other people for what happened? It's called a natural disaster for a reason. Now if those scientists believed there was going to be an earthquake anyway so it was okay to kill all those people... there might be a case. xD
   
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 21st 2011, 07:21 PM

Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY?

I'm all for people being held accountable for their actions and inaction, but this is just ridiculous. If (and it's a very big "if") they gave flawed advice then they should be held to account for that, but that does not remotely come close to the standard required for a charge of manslaughter. If by some bizarre twist of fate this does result in a conviction I cannot imagine it standing for very long.


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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 22nd 2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bean View Post
I have noticed that many people talking about this have neglected that fact that it is impossible to predict earthquakes. There is literally no physical way on earth to predict an earthquake. If there was, countless lives would be saved, but there simply isn't. The best we can do is estimate when and where an earthquake could occur, and even then, it's often wrong.
It is possible... it's just highly arbitrary, vague and uncertain. If their job was to do their best, and they instead took a week off on sick leave... then they are at fault.

It's enough to google search "predicting earthquakes".


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Scientists Charged With Murder For Not Predicting Deadly Earthquake - September 22nd 2011, 06:35 PM

Thats riducolous, you cant predict earthtquaks -.-


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