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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:17 PM

All right mates, I need your help. I've got a debating coming up in my next class. I'm on the team of Parents(vs. "Burger Queen" and the school). I need some valid points on why schools should not serve food in the school(the school being an elementary).

We've already got the obvious unhealthiness, the fact that it may cost the school less, but the parents more(or something like that) and...some other things which I can't remember cause I was not quite paying attention(whoops!). Anyways, do you guys have any ideas?

Also, if you are a parent and have a actual viewpoint on this, feel free to "write a complaint" about fast food's use in schools. We could use some actual things like that as points to our case.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:25 PM

Hmm, this is a tough one - especially since I disagree with the parents stance.

The parents want this because they can't be arsed to teach their children healthy eating.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
Hmm, this is a tough one - especially since I disagree with the parents stance.

The parents want this because they can't be arsed to teach their children healthy eating.
Ugh I know, I SO wanted to be on the school side, but alas....I have no choice in the matter. AND they have more people because the teacher thought it would be harder to argue from the school's point of view. As if!


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:37 PM

You could always use it as the view point "if they eat healthily at home, why should they (kids) eat unhealthily at school".
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:41 PM

As background info are you allowed to take a packed lunch in?

You could always say that children need a routine and eating healthily at school should help
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 04:47 PM

It puts them on the right track for eating healthier in later life? More susceptible to trying more things if healthy food is introduced into schools as there is limited choice.
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 07:16 PM

Because kids are kids, if they're handed fast food, they're obviously not going to go ''Actually, I'd rather have an apple.''.
The schools need to help create a positive and healthy attitude towards food.
They're supposed to teach kids, so they should teach them how to eat properly.
That includes not handing them crap food for the taking.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by x_nicola View Post
Because kids are kids, if they're handed fast food, they're obviously not going to go ''Actually, I'd rather have an apple.''.
The schools need to help create a positive and healthy attitude towards food.
They're supposed to teach kids, so they should teach them how to eat properly.
That includes not handing them crap food for the taking.
I know we are supposed to be helping the argument but I can't help myself. It is not the school's job to teach kids life lessons, learning how to eat right, and other basic LIFE lessons are for the parents. Schools are not there to parent children but most parents seem to think otherwise. They want their kids to eat healthy then it's their job to teach them that.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 07:50 PM

Yes, that is true, but what about the kids of parents who don't bother to teach their children this stuff? You just going to leave them eat crap 'cause their parents don't care?

In the school I went to, the school tried really hard to get kids to eat proper, healthy good. All unhealthy food was banned from the school, and if a child brought a chocolate bar or anything, it was taken off them.
Therefore, the parents had no choice but to teach their children proper eating habits.

School is a large part of a child's life, and I believe that schools do have a responsibility to teach the children how to keep themselves healthy.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 07:56 PM

If the children eat fast food and fizzy drinks, they'll possibly feel bloated or something similar which won't put them into the learning/pay attention mood when it comes to lessons, whereas something more healthy could be better?

I hope that makes sense, I know what I mean I just don't know how to say it.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 08:05 PM

I can't give you a lot of points for your site because I am so against having perfectly healthy food in school, and I have no problem with a Burger King in a school.

With that being said, I'm pretty sure Bill Clinton made a lot of changes (I could be wrong), try and look up what he did. The healthier food helps those who eat unhealthy at home, so at least at school they will be eating well.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 08:36 PM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
It is not the school's job to teach kids life lessons, learning how to eat right, and other basic LIFE lessons are for the parents. Schools are not there to parent children but most parents seem to think otherwise.
While I agree it's the responsibilities of the parents to teach their kids healthy eating habits, I do believe the school should be reinforcing the parents' teachings. By serving fast food in elementary schools, you're more or less negating what the parents teach. You're telling the students it doesn't matter what their parents say because it's perfectly ok to come to school and eat junk.

If you have a little kid who goes to a school where fast food is being served, but his parents only let him eat healthy food at home...what do you think he's going to do at school? Keep eating healthy or eat what he's not allowed to at home? The values are gone, the lessons aren't retained. Kids spend as much time in school as they do at home; if the two environments are conflicting, it won't matter what the parents teach their kids because it'll be unbalanced.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 09:02 PM

The school should help teach kids about healthy eating habits, and part of this is leading by example and having them either be served healthy food or provide their own.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 19th 2009, 11:18 PM

I recently read an article in Vancouver's newspaper saying that if there is a fast food restaurant within a certain distance of a school, obesity rates have been shown to go up a certain percentage (sorry that's horribly vague, I'm going to look for the article now)

Edit:
Quote:
A FAST-FOOD restaurant within about 500 feet (150 metres) of a school may lead to at least a 5 per cent increase in the obesity rate at that school, according to a study released on Friday
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_350058.html

The argument is for a ban on fastfood within a certain radius of a school, rather than in the actual school, but the argument will hold.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
I can't give you a lot of points for your site because I am so against having perfectly healthy food in school, and I have no problem with a Burger King in a school.
Are you fine with having a Burger King in a school because you'd like to eat BK at lunch yourself or do you think it would serve the student body great good than the cafeteria? I honestly don't think that having a Burger King in school would be healthy for the students. It's so easy to get bigger combos and supersize your portions. Even if you are trying not to eat it, it's like an alcoholic in a bar. The poor guy is going to want a drink because that is all he sees. I can only imagine the health problems that could happen.

I'm all for healthy eating in school. I refuse to eat school food. I pack (well, my mother packs) my lunch everyday. I eat the same thing almost everyday. Juice, PB&J, and a cookie or brownie of some sort. It's not the healthiest that I could eat, but my choices are restricted by my parents as well. I have to eat what they buy me or what they will buy me, so I'm stuck honestly.

If my school served things like salad, I probably would eat school lunch. Most things look un-identifiable and disgusting. However, I do think that it is better than fast food. We have state laws that regulate portions and calories, so they can only give you so much. If we had fastfood in school, the school wouldn't be able to regulate what we are eating. What would happen to our free and reduced lunch programs as well?


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
If the children eat fast food and fizzy drinks, they'll possibly feel bloated or something similar which won't put them into the learning/pay attention mood when it comes to lessons, whereas something more healthy could be better?

I hope that makes sense, I know what I mean I just don't know how to say it.
You know, that's a good point! I can't recall any specifics, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere about some research PROVING that kids do better in school when they eat healthier.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:29 AM

Healthy food is unaffordable, for low income families. Children from lower income families are most often the ones "forced" to eat school meals. The parents of children who are higher income can afford to buy healthy food at the grocery store, and to help their children pack healthy meals to take with them to school. The lower income students are then left with two options--bring less healthy food from home (what their parents can afford) or eat unhealthy food at school (often this is free for those with especially low income, at least where I went to school.)

So by having junk available in the cafeteria, we aren't even giving those low income children the opportunity to eat healthy. It doesn't end there. Eating this junk has health risks. Even if only a certain percentage of the higher income families are sending their children to school with pre-packed, healthy lunches, if the children of the remainder have health issues, they can afford to take them to the doctor. When the children of lower income families are forced to eat the unhealthy food because they cannot afford healthier meals, do you think THEIR parents will be able to afford even one visit to the doctor? Not in America. Not when so many of our children and families are uninsured. Awesome.

Also, a healthy meal may contribute to a healthy mind. Have you ever seen the Mini Wheats commercials? So forcing lower income children to eat unhealthy may reduce their concentration in school, and thus their achievement rates. Yay.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:43 AM

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Healthy food is unaffordable, for low income families. Children from lower income families are most often the ones "forced" to eat school meals. The parents of children who are higher income can afford to buy healthy food at the grocery store, and to help their children pack healthy meals to take with them to school. The lower income students are then left with two options--bring less healthy food from home (what their parents can afford) or eat unhealthy food at school (often this is free for those with especially low income, at least where I went to school.)

So by having junk available in the cafeteria, we aren't even giving those low income children the opportunity to eat healthy. It doesn't end there. Eating this junk has health risks. Even if only a certain percentage of the higher income families are sending their children to school with pre-packed, healthy lunches, if the children of the remainder have health issues, they can afford to take them to the doctor. When the children of lower income families are forced to eat the unhealthy food because they cannot afford healthier meals, do you think THEIR parents will be able to afford even one visit to the doctor? Not in America. Not when so many of our children and families are uninsured. Awesome.

Also, a healthy meal may contribute to a healthy mind. Have you ever seen the Mini Wheats commercials? So forcing lower income children to eat unhealthy may reduce their concentration in school, and thus their achievement rates. Yay.
I dunno about you, but a lunch at school costs more than it would if you would bring a lunch every day. A HEALTHY lunch.




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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:47 AM

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I dunno about you, but a lunch at school costs more than it would if you would bring a lunch every day. A HEALTHY lunch.
I suppose that depends on the area. And as I mentioned, many children of low income families ate for free at my school. Nothing costs less than free, no matter how you look at it.


I've always held the opinion that we pay for our food in one of two ways. If we pay more, we get healthier food. If we pay less, we're saving money, but our health suffers. Children do not dictate their parents income. Children shouldn't be punished because their parents cannot afford to pack them healthy lunches, by a school system too cheap to offer them at least something superior to fast food.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:51 AM

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I suppose that depends on the area. And as I mentioned, many children of low income families ate for free at my school. Nothing costs less than free, no matter how you look at it.


I've always held the opinion that we pay for our food in one of two ways. If we pay more, we get healthier food. If we pay less, we're saving money, but our health suffers. Children do not dictate their parents income. Children shouldn't be punished because their parents cannot afford to pack them healthy lunches, by a school system too cheap to offer them at least something superior to fast food.
I definitely agree with you...

Oh and, unless you're getting PAID to eat :P




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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 02:58 AM

The "healthy" lunches provided by schools need to be truly healthy foods, not just this is a hamburger we made instead of buying. That being said, it is the job of the school staff to be positive role models for its students. That doesn't excluded the parents from thier duties, but schools and parents are partners in caring for children. Healthy eating habits at school will lead to continued healthy eating in the future.

Children behave better when their nutritional needs are met. Children will be less obese if schools provide healthy food options.

By purchasing fast food, schools support the unhealthy cycle. It needs to be stopped, why not buy the people teaching the children.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 05:00 AM

I don't think it's the school's job to teach the kids what to eat. Regardless of the parents, it is the parents' job. You go to school to get an education that will help you get a job, not to get an education on what to eat. I can only assume that if the schools are deemed responsible for teaching the kids what to eat, the next stage is teaching the kids when to go to bed, how to make their bed and how to tie their shoes. The school's job is to teach and providing food is a privalege for the kids. If the schools want, they have a right to say "fuck it, no cafeteria, make your own damn food". Then of course, the parents would complain but that's besides the point.

In our 2nd year uni. adult development and aging course, as the textbook cites studies left, right and center, one of them can be applied here. It was initially meant to be a criticism against long-term care facilities for seniors, however, it can apply here too. The article was done in 1985 by E.J. Langer, who claimed that the same routine, over and over for the senior residents promotes mindlessness and can lower their competency.

I know this is a really long stretch, however, if the kids go, day after day to line up and choose the same basic cheeseburger or whatever it is, they can become more mindless. As I said, it's a huge stretch, one that I admit, if I heard it, I'd say it's full of shit just due to how it's being applied.

However, another idea, which is supported, is the kid's blood circulation. This one has more believability: as kids sit in class, hear the teachers, the kids just sit, doddle and that's it. They may have a recess but do they run around and around a track? Maybe the very younger ones but the ones in high school? I doubt the majority do, unless of course they're try to avoid a few other kids trying to beat the crap out of them or play some sports. However, the recesses are very short, and although they promote more activity, they are countered by the laziness that is being promoted in schools.

When they eat the cheeseburgers and other stuff, eventually, it decreases their circulation. When they think, certain brain areas are more activated, however, more laziness and more junk foods begin to restrict this circulation after long-term laziness and such. This long-term laziness is indeed supported by the increasing obesity rates, showing that any recess and such, clearly isn't working. If there is healthier foods, there is more energy, more nutrients, more focus for the kids. Eating healthier won't magically decrease the obesity rates, however, it is definately a big start.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 06:43 PM

Ugh. This is hard because I completely disagree with the parents.

I guess you could argue that obesity is a growing problem and adding fast food to elementary school lunch plans would just add to that. (I don't actually believe that, but whatever.)


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 07:32 PM

There are already vending machines at schools, I can already see kids old fries getting stuck in their binders and backpacks. Lockers will have the stench of old hamburger wrappers, and that's just adding to stinky socks, old lunch bags, smelly drugs, liquor bottles, etc. Students would not even have the initiative to put their crap in the garbage anyway!

Only a good idea to those who go to McDonalds everyday in the place.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 07:38 PM

I think fast food is perfectly ok, in moderation. as long as the school doesn't allow the students to have 2 or 3 meals of it, it should be fine to serve it for lunch...maybe not every single day though, especially if they aren't eating right at home.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:
Healthy food is unaffordable, for low income families.
I come from a low income family and we have always managed to have healthy food on our table.
There are ways and means of doing anything.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 20th 2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:
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I come from a low income family and we have always managed to have healthy food on our table.
There are ways and means of doing anything.

Healthy food is inexpensive, but rather vegetarian/vegan food is much more expensive eh?
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 03:07 AM

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Ugh. This is hard because I completely disagree with the parents.

I guess you could argue that obesity is a growing problem and adding fast food to elementary school lunch plans would just add to that. (I don't actually believe that, but whatever.)
You don't believe obesity is a growing problem and that fast food would only make it worse?
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 03:14 AM

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Ugh. This is hard because I completely disagree with the parents.

I guess you could argue that obesity is a growing problem and adding fast food to elementary school lunch plans would just add to that. (I don't actually believe that, but whatever.)
You obviously have not been out in public in awhile.

As George Carlin once said "We got some big ass people!"

No. You can't trust American kids to eat healthy if the choice is provided to them. You can't trust them with anything else, why should they be trusted with actually eating healthy?(which most don't already)

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Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
The school should help teach kids about healthy eating habits, and part of this is leading by example and having them either be served healthy food or provide their own.
They already do that. People won't change till heart disease rate skyrockets and they realize they shouldn't be shoving that stuff into their mouth.

Wait..nevermind, already happening and no one's doing anything.



   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:31 AM

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Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post
I don't think it's the school's job to teach the kids what to eat. Regardless of the parents, it is the parents' job. You go to school to get an education that will help you get a job, not to get an education on what to eat. I can only assume that if the schools are deemed responsible for teaching the kids what to eat, the next stage is teaching the kids when to go to bed, how to make their bed and how to tie their shoes. The school's job is to teach and providing food is a privalege for the kids. If the schools want, they have a right to say "fuck it, no cafeteria, make your own damn food". Then of course, the parents would complain but that's besides the point.
Education, in America, is a RIGHT, not a privilege. A privilege is something afforded to a minority and severely restricted to the majority. Every person has a right to an education, at least in this country.

Also, no, schools should NOT be allowed to close cafeterias. Some families can NOT afford to send their children to school with a packed lunch every day. How is it fair to force a child to go without lunch because their parents don't make enough to send them with bagged food?

A school's duty is not solely to educate in maths, geography, etc. They have a social responsibility to enforce positive behavior--this is why students are punished for breaking rules. The average school age student spends 35-40 hours a week in a school setting, without even taking after school activities into account. With such a heavy presence in their lives, schools are responsible for much more than teaching them how to write. The school also acts as guardian of the child for all of that time--responsible for well-being and more. Healthy eating ties directly into the well-being of a child, or any person.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
Education, in America, is a RIGHT, not a privilege. A privilege is something afforded to a minority and severely restricted to the majority. Every person has a right to an education, at least in this country.
Plenty of things are a privilege. Driving is a privilege, not a right.



   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Mithridates View Post
Plenty of things are a privilege. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Driving and education are not comparable. Driving is a privilege you must earn. There are rules in place and tests you must complete to earn it. A primary education is something every child in our country is afforded as a right.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:46 AM

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Driving and education are not comparable. Driving is a privilege you must earn. There are rules in place and tests you must complete to earn it. A primary education is something every child in our country is afforded as a right.
Under what constitution?



   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Mithridates View Post
Under what constitution?

Education is a derived right of Americans. Without education it is impossible to ensure the constitutional rights of our citizens.

This is off topic.



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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 21st 2009, 04:56 AM

Some states have a program where students get free meals or at least a discount rate depending on family income.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 22nd 2009, 03:37 PM

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Also, no, schools should NOT be allowed to close cafeterias. Some families can NOT afford to send their children to school with a packed lunch every day. How is it fair to force a child to go without lunch because their parents don't make enough to send them with bagged food?
Ok so I went to a private school from kindergarten to 8th grade. I switched schools when I went into the 5th grade and we never had a cafeteria, and believe me I had plenty of friends at that school that came from low income families. I had one friend whose mother was a single mother on disability yet she managed not only to afford the school but send her child to school with lunch every day. Then there was another girl whose younger brother also attended the school, but both of them managed to come to school with lunches. It's not that impossible. The thing with highschool and taking the cafeteria away is that from what I've noticed parents seem to care less about their kids once they hit high school. Meaning most high school kids would be left to fend for themselves when it came to packing their lunches and if their parents hadn't bothered to teach them to eat healthy I wonder what they will pack for themselves.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 22nd 2009, 06:00 PM

Does anybody else find it disturbing that the government would almost be supporting fast food franchises by doing this?

I'm with Mithridates on this one.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 22nd 2009, 10:42 PM

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Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post
You don't believe obesity is a growing problem and that fast food would only make it worse?
Obesity is a growing problem, but fast food is not the issue. The problem is that people are not making healthy food choices and they are not teaching their children to make healthy choices. I eat healthy most of the time, but every once in a while I have a burger or a milkshake, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not to mention that a lot of fast food places are offering healthy choices now. (For example, instead of getting a burger and fries I can now get a grilled chicken sandwich and a side salad, as I often do.) Fast food is not the problem, the people are. People are too self-indulgent to take personal responsibility for their weight problems.

Quote:
You obviously have not been out in public in awhile.

As George Carlin once said "We got some big ass people!"

No. You can't trust American kids to eat healthy if the choice is provided to them. You can't trust them with anything else, why should they be trusted with actually eating healthy?(which most don't already)
Ignoring the personal comment.

"You can't trust American kids to eat healthy if the choice is provided to them"? I beg to differ. There are some kids who will always choose the burger and fries over a turkey sandwich and an apple, but that's their problem. They chose not to take care of themselves, and one day it's going to come back and haunt them in the form of flab. There are plenty of kids I know, including myself, who willingly choose the healthy options. It's not fair to take options away from people who are making healthy choices just because some other people are being idiots.



In short: No, I do not think fast food is to blame for this country's overwhelming fatness. I think it's because people are lazy and they want to find someone to blame for the obesity issue.


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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 23rd 2009, 02:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post
Obesity is a growing problem, but fast food is not the issue. The problem is that people are not making healthy food choices and they are not teaching their children to make healthy choices. I eat healthy most of the time, but every once in a while I have a burger or a milkshake, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not to mention that a lot of fast food places are offering healthy choices now. (For example, instead of getting a burger and fries I can now get a grilled chicken sandwich and a side salad, as I often do.) Fast food is not the problem, the people are. People are too self-indulgent to take personal responsibility for their weight problems.
While I do agree with this, I never said fast food was the only issue. It certainly is a contributor, along with utter laziness. If people were lazy yet ate healthy, would they be as obese and have as many cardiovascular and other health problems due to their diet? They'd have plenty but not as much. The people are the problem, no doubt about that. Although fast food places offer the healthy choices, it doesn't mean people actually buy them as much as they buy the unhealthy crap.

Fast food, lack of exercise, laziness, etc..., those contribute to the increasing obesity but I agree, saying fast food is the problem is wrong.
   
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Re: Fast food in schools? - March 25th 2009, 09:28 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Ok so I went to a private school from kindergarten to 8th grade. I switched schools when I went into the 5th grade and we never had a cafeteria, and believe me I had plenty of friends at that school that came from low income families. I had one friend whose mother was a single mother on disability yet she managed not only to afford the school but send her child to school with lunch every day. Then there was another girl whose younger brother also attended the school, but both of them managed to come to school with lunches. It's not that impossible. The thing with highschool and taking the cafeteria away is that from what I've noticed parents seem to care less about their kids once they hit high school. Meaning most high school kids would be left to fend for themselves when it came to packing their lunches and if their parents hadn't bothered to teach them to eat healthy I wonder what they will pack for themselves.
Ok, but there are differing degrees of poverty. While that family may have been able to provide food for their children, there are many who cannot.


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