Non-PG13 (Strong Language): ATF and Cleveland Police Door to Door Weapon Confiscations

[TigerTank77]

So, here are some links to what is going on:
http://www.woio.com/story/15616710/c...ck-our-streets
http://www.woio.com/story/15591588/c...gins-next-week
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011...orm_new_p.html

This is essentially what they are doing- they are going around, collecting tips from people about who may or may not have an "illegal" firearm. Then, based solely on verbal tips, they are going to said houses, entering, searching and confiscating any weapon (regardless of legality) they find, WITHOUT A WARRANT, and placing said individual under arrest.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT?

Don't get me started on the unlawful search and seizure, and the lack of warrants, and the FUCKING ATF, what bugs me the most is that they are basing this entire operation on FUCKING HEARSAY



THOUGHTS?

[Cosmo]

[✖Ice✖]

Yet Drug cartels walk into my state and point blank shoot americans in the back of the head. and now americans are having guns taken away?

[Sythan]

[Anthropomorphic]

Hearsay idiocy. I don't especially like guns, but people DO have the right to own and posses them, so this seems unlawful on a staggering number of levels.

[Pelios]

Are they going to send the guns to the drug lords like they did in Fast and Furious selling weapons to the Mexican drug lords?

[✖Ice✖]

Originally Posted by Pelios

Are they going to send the guns to the drug lords like they did in Fast and Furious selling weapons to the Mexican drug lords?

Most likely

[Kate*]

This is only because it's an inner city with TONS of drug and gang violence and when they're talking about talking to police that doesn't mean ratting people out, gang members don't trust police because to them police are the enemy they're trying to get people to understand that cops are not the enemy. They probably ask the person to provide proof that they have a permit for their weapon, or look one up before arresting them and there have only been 7 arrests not 13 (just saw it on a more reliable news station). People have a right to own guns if they do so legally and use them responsibly, this is to keep people from obtaining illegal weapons to engage in gang violence. Too many innocent people are dying. How else do you suggest they handle this? You know people with illegal weapons aren't going to just surrender them.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Kate*

This is only because it's an inner city with TONS of drug and gang violence and when they're talking about talking to police that doesn't mean ratting people out, gang members don't trust police because to them police are the enemy they're trying to get people to understand that cops are not the enemy. They probably ask the person to provide proof that they have a permit for their weapon, or look one up before arresting them and there have only been 7 arrests not 13 (just saw it on a more reliable news station). People have a right to own guns if they do so legally and use them responsibly, this is to keep people from obtaining illegal weapons to engage in gang violence. Too many innocent people are dying. How else do you suggest they handle this? You know people with illegal weapons aren't going to just surrender them.

Pretty much this.

These people in down town cleveland arnt your normal joe's. Many of them are gang memebers or related to a gang member. So as you can tell, it isn't a pretty place to be. Esp with a 13% rise on gun related murders that happened in that area last year.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by -A-

Pretty much this.

These people in down town cleveland arnt your normal joe's. Many of them are gang memebers or related to a gang member. So as you can tell, it isn't a pretty place to be. Esp with a 13% rise on gun related murders that happened in that area last year.

There is absolutely no excuse for this shit. None. Taking guns away from legal gun owners and violating constitutional rights right and left doesn't help anything. "Those who sacrifice liberty for 'safety' deserve neither liberty or safety."

Also, I would like to point out, that they aren't doing this in the city, they're doing it in the surrounding suburbs. They tried doing it in the inner city, and the ACLU though a temper tantrum.

Originally Posted by Kate*

How else do you suggest they handle this? .

Legally?

Look, if they started confiscating computers and cameras at will, without warrants, started arresting people based on hearsay, and started regulating the internet like the Suez canal in order to fight child porn, everybody would be throwing a fucking shit fit over the violation of the First Amendment.

I swear to god, gun owners are the new Muslims of America.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

There is absolutely no excuse for this shit. None. Taking guns away from legal gun owners and violating constitutional rights right and left doesn't help anything. "Those who sacrifice liberty for 'safety' deserve neither liberty or safety."

Also, I would like to point out, that they aren't doing this in the city, they're doing it in the surrounding suburbs. They tried doing it in the inner city, and the ACLU though a temper tantrum.

Your missing the point, there not legal gun owners. As in the article you posted it stated, "13 people were arrested on various warents.". In none of the information you provided did it state that cops were going into random people's homes and taking there guns.

[Kate*]

They're modeling this after a program in another city which reduced the murder rate 17% I can't find anything on the specific methods they're using they wouldn't do this illegally, local and federal government employees would get fired for that. They don't arrest people for no reason they aren't stupid and frankly I don't care how they go about it I'm sick of hearing about innocent bystanders being killed and being scared to death to even go downtown. If people have a gun legally they will not get arrested and they shouldn't. And you're other comment is irrelevent because cameras and computers don't kill innocent people unless people take their own lives over cyberbullying and people who are found using cameras and computers for illegal activity are caught and punished. Same with the guns, people who shouldn't have them are getting caught and punished.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by -A-

Your missing the point, there not legal gun owners. As in the article you posted it stated, "13 people were arrested on various warents.". In none of the information you provided did it state that cops were going into random people's homes and taking there guns.

Various kinds of warrants: could be fucking anything. They've said very little in the way of specifics.

Also, I fail to see how basing an entire operation around verbal tips that may or may not be true isn't random. Or smart.

Originally Posted by Kate*

They're modeling this after a program in another city which reduced the murder rate 17% I can't find anything on the specific methods they're using they wouldn't do this illegally, local and federal government employees would get fired for that.

Do you know what operation "Fast and Furious" is? Do you know what the firearm confiscating that went on after hurricane Katrina in New Orleans?

Look it up.

Originally Posted by Kate*

They don't arrest people for no reason they aren't stupid and frankly I don't care how they go about it I'm sick of hearing about innocent bystanders being killed and being scared to death to even go downtown.

So you don't care about people's civil rights, you just want the crime statistics to have a smaller number?

Originally Posted by Kate*

If people have a gun legally they will not get arrested and they shouldn't. And you're other comment is irrelevent because cameras and computers don't kill innocent people unless people take their own lives over cyberbullying and people who are found using cameras and computers for illegal activity are caught and punished. Same with the guns, people who shouldn't have them are getting caught and punished.

Except thats not what's happening. It's essentially a witch hunt. Everyone is passing off "information" in order to bargain for their own personal gain.
You think the 13 people they arrested aren't going to throw any name they can think of out there for reduced jail time?

[-A-]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Various kinds of warrants: could be fucking anything. They've said very little in the way of specifics.

Then lets do this little thing called having patients instead jumping to conclusions. Their were warrants out for their arrest, and got busted, so chill ya bill.

Also, I fail to see how basing an entire operation around verbal tips that may or may not be true isn't random. Or smart.

Verbel tips are used a lot in law enforcement, ethier by people who don't want to go to jail longer, people who want to fix their community, other gangs/criminals trying to get their compedators shut down, etc..

Do you know what operation "Fast and Furious" is? Do you know what the firearm confiscating that went on after hurricane Katrina in New Orleans?

All of these are completely differnt opertions happening for differnt reasons, in differnt areas at differnt times. There are *some* simalarities but they in no way out number the differnces.

So you don't care about people's civil rights, you just want the crime statistics to have a smaller number?

I do, more then most. Most people just dont understand "their civil rights".

Except thats not what's happening. It's essentially a witch hunt. Everyone is passing off "information" in order to bargain for their own personal gain. You think the 13 people they arrested aren't going to throw any name they can think of out there for reduced jail time?

Yes, they might throw out someones name in order to get less jail time. Whats your point? It happens all the time. Their trying to get illegal guns of the street to cut down on the gun violence happening their, not go into every legal gun owners house and take their property.