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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 12:35 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I0pX9LeE-g8

Every single cop in that video should be criminally charged. The fact that they stood there and allowed a fellow officer to shoot an innocent man with no repercussions is the exact reason why I and millions of others have no respect for any police. I'll respect them as soon as they start respecting us and the law, and I've seen no sign that they're even considering doing that.
This isn't crowd control. This isn't keeping the peace. This isn't enforcing the law. This is assault with a deadly weapon, plain and simple. The officer who fired that round should be fired and criminally charged.
To those who might say "oh, not all of them are bad cops" well ALL OF THOSE GUYS ARE BAD COPS. Every single one of them. The fact that the officer was not removed from duty immediately for unlawful discharge of his weapon means that every cop standing there is complicit and should be stripped of their responsibility. None of those officers are "good" cops.


To those of you who defend these actions: fuck you, you're part of the problem.










Oh, hey, look, OPD officers deliberately hiding their name badges, what a surprise. Why? Because they intend to break the law. Much respect to their lieutenant for pulling the tape off the badge too though, he's a credit to the police.

Last edited by forfrosne; November 7th 2011 at 12:50 AM.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 12:48 AM

Once again, you make a biased judgement based off a 40 sec video with no knowledge on what happened before 0 mark of this video. Congrats.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 12:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Once again, you make a biased judgement based off a 40 sec video with no knowledge on what happened before 0 mark of this video. Congrats.
You're so far up the police force's ass you wouldn't see police brutality if it was shot at you at 200m/s.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Once again, you make a biased judgement based off a 40 sec video with no knowledge on what happened before 0 mark of this video. Congrats.
I would normally agree with you with about 70% of the "police brutality" videos that I've seen, but this one is probably the most blatant use of excessive force. He gets shot with a rubber bullet because of recording? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Not sure what to tell you Cosmo. Cops are going to be tougher in cities like NY and Oakland because they have to be. If you ask me, I'd rather my police force be a little on the tougher side than the lighter.

I don't know about police where you live, but remember America is a huge country with loads of police departments and tons of people working in that field. Having no respect for the profession because some asshole decided to shoot a rubber bullet is just simply unfair.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 01:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Lugez View Post
Not sure what to tell you Cosmo. Cops are going to be tougher in cities like NY and Oakland because they have to be. If you ask me, I'd rather my police force be a little on the tougher side than the lighter.
While I appreciate your attempt at civility and reasonableness (I really do) I can't bring myself to agree with you. Mainly because there's no need for this. The only people being violent are the police. Either way this assumes that they can't just follow their codes and do their job and not beat innocent protesters. And then there's the problem that they're not being just a little bit on the tough side. People have been shot and beaten by these police during these protesters, had tear gas thrown at them because they tried to help a man who'd just been knocked unconscious by a point-blanc rubber bullet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugez View Post
I don't know about police where you live, but remember America is a huge country with loads of police departments and tons of people working in that field. Having no respect for the profession because some asshole decided to shoot a rubber bullet is just simply unfair.


When an officer breaks the code, it's up to the other officers to take his weapon off him and send him back to the office to be dealt with accordingly. They did no such thing. They just pretended it never happened and continued to beat the shit out of innocent protesters. Every cop in that video is guitly for not doing doing something about this.
And, when you think about it, whenever a cop does something wrong, like taser a wheelchair-bound man with cerebral palsy (true story), there's at least 10 other cops in his department doing their best to have him get away with it and stop the news getting to the press. The entire system is corrupt, and those spreading the corruption need to be weeded out.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 01:22 AM

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Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Once again, you make a biased judgement based off a 40 sec video with no knowledge on what happened before 0 mark of this video. Congrats.
I'm pretty sure before the 0 mark the guy took out his camera out of his pocket and click "rec" and after the 40 second mark the guy was in the floor in so much pain he had to turn off the camera.
The cop shot him because the cop abused his "power" and with that giving just another reason why to hate the cops.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post

While I appreciate your attempt at civility and reasonableness (I really do) I can't bring myself to agree with you. Mainly because there's no need for this. The only people being violent are the police. Either way this assumes that they can't just follow their codes and do their job and not beat innocent protesters. And then there's the problem that they're not being just a little bit on the tough side. People have been shot and beaten by these police during these protesters, had tear gas thrown at them because they tried to help a man who'd just been knocked unconscious by a point-blanc rubber bullet.
I guess the first thing that needs to be said is that there is a need for a police force to be tough when it comes to large cities.

With that said, I do agree with you, but to an extent. Have the police been unreasonably violent? Absolutely. But I highly doubt that every protester has been peaceful and non-violent towards the police. If a protester does something that the police don't like, then yeah they're going to get a nice ass-whooping. Police have a very dangerous job which makes them deal with all kinds of people. So they're going to assume the worst out of individuals because that's the safest way. Only thing is it appears to have gotten out of hand with these protests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
When an officer breaks the code, it's up to the other officers to take his weapon off him and send him back to the office to be dealt with accordingly. They did no such thing. They just pretended it never happened and continued to beat the shit out of innocent protesters. Every cop in that video is guitly for not doing doing something about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
And, when you think about it, whenever a cop does something wrong, like taser a wheelchair-bound man with cerebral palsy (true story), there's at least 10 other cops in his department doing their best to have him get away with it and stop the news getting to the press. The entire system is corrupt, and those spreading the corruption need to be weeded out.
The system could use some work in some areas, so I do agree with this. I wouldn't say that it is "entirely corrupt" though. Some cleaning up in choice departments is what I would do. There is a problem with cops being above the law, but overall they usually do their jobs and they do it well. You also need to be careful with putting the expectations of what a cop should be on some kind of high moral pedastal. In the end, they are human beings with flaws and the system is probably never going to be perfect.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 01:59 AM

I can understand shooting him with a rubber bullet or arresting him if he was interfering with police duty (i.e. police were trying to arrest a thief and some person sticks their camera in the way), if the person was filming probable evidence of a crime (i.e. filmed a rape when there were no other near-by cameras), assaulting an officer while filming or intentionally making a video involved with terrorism or similar crimes. However, in this case it's confusing because he asks, "is this OK" to the police and doesn't get much of an answer in return. Perhaps there was something going on in the background and the officer missed or the officer wanted to break up whatever was going on. I cant support the OP nor can I oppose the OP because the video doesn't show the context. Obviously there was a protest but the video doesn't show what was going on at the time of the protest.

It's hard to see if after the shot is fired whether the people are moving away because they don't want to get shot (which could have been the purpose of the shot) or if the police were moving in. I don't support shooting some guy who is not being disruptive for the sake of getting the disruptive people to move away because that is unfair.

At the same time, I support the fact the officers did not grab the gun from the officer. There was a protest going on and regardless if it was disruptive, the officer may have made it more disruptive. The last thing the officers needed was to pull that one cop away as it shows weakness and an opportunity for the protestors to potentially strike. After the protest was over, then I would be more supportive of having the officer's weapon taken away pending review.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 02:22 AM

YEAH FUCK COPS ALL COPS ARE SCUM FUCK THE PIGS FUCKING POLICE

We get it. There are assholes in every profession.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 02:27 AM

This is pretty effed up. I hope the Oakland police force know the kind of image they are portraying themselves as. I agree with Cosmo guys, I'm sorry, but there was nothing going on in this video, the guy was walking by the police, he wasn't even saying anything except "Is this okay?" Maybe something happened before, but it gives no right to shoot him with anything, even if it's not lethal. The police need to get their act together, or people will continue to fear our protectors.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 03:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Coffee❤ View Post
This is pretty effed up. I hope the Oakland police force know the kind of image they are portraying themselves as. I agree with Cosmo guys, I'm sorry, but there was nothing going on in this video, the guy was walking by the police, he wasn't even saying anything except "Is this okay?" Maybe something happened before, but it gives no right to shoot him with anything, even if it's not lethal. The police need to get their act together, or people will continue to fear our protectors.
Nothing going on? Watch the video again, I think you'll find there was a protest going on that warranted the police being there, obvious vandalism and perhaps something else. The officer may have had every right to shoot him depending on the context but neither of us know the context. It's not like the guy was taking a stroll in a park, saw an officer, started filming for the fun of it and the officer shot him with a rubber bullet.

I agree, the Oakland Police's image took a hit but it's a far cry to say the entire police force has to get their act together.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 06:28 AM

Rubber bullets are for use only when the officer's life may be in danger. No Officer's life was in danger, therefore their use in shooting an innocent cameraman with a rubber projectile at 200m/s was unwarranted and illegal.

And on


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
At the same time, I support the fact the officers did not grab the gun from the officer. There was a protest going on and regardless if it was disruptive, the officer may have made it more disruptive. The last thing the officers needed was to pull that one cop away as it shows weakness and an opportunity for the protestors to potentially strike. After the protest was over, then I would be more supportive of having the officer's weapon taken away pending review.

You say "an opportunity for protesters to potentially strike". This suggests to me that you know very little about these protests in that you presume that they will take an opportunity to be violent and attack police. This is not like the UK riots or student protests.
Let me remind you that 100% of violence surrounding police in regards to Occupy Wall Street is Police -> Protester. No protester is dumb enough to attack a cop even though they often deserve it.

Last edited by forfrosne; November 7th 2011 at 06:55 AM.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 10:30 AM

If you didn't have that OWS pic I would have totally agreed with you. Trying to use the police brutality against them to recruit people to their cause, I called it day one!
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 12:35 PM

Should be fired (preferably from a cannon), charged with assault and never allowed back on the force, the rest suspended for a year. If they can't feed their families because of it, then their families need to find someone else to depend on.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
Rubber bullets are for use only when the officer's life may be in danger. No Officer's life was in danger, therefore their use in shooting an innocent cameraman with a rubber projectile at 200m/s was unwarranted and illegal.


You say "an opportunity for protesters to potentially strike". This suggests to me that you know very little about these protests in that you presume that they will take an opportunity to be violent and attack police. This is not like the UK riots or student protests.
Let me remind you that 100% of violence surrounding police in regards to Occupy Wall Street is Police -> Protester. No protester is dumb enough to attack a cop even though they often deserve it.
Top Quote: Again your misconspection of police tactics are completely off the real deal. Rubber bullets are not used "when the officers life may be in danger". If an officer feels like his life is in danger, thats when he uses his gun (with real bullets). Non-lethal weapons are meant to incapacitate, but not kill.

Bottom quote: Your kidding me right? This is why I don't take you seriously at all. "No protester is dumb enough to attack a cop even though they often deserve it."

Occupy member admits that other occupy members threw bottles and other items at police..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHi...layer_embedded

Occupy member pushes a cop off his bike (assault with a deadly weapon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SFL32k5Imk

Occupy members break store glass
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-11/65832688.jpg

Occupy Oakland violence
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...Q2HO.DTL&tsp=1

Quote:
OAKLAND -- A long day of mostly peaceful protest in Oakland descended into chaos after midnight. Masked vandals shattered windows, set fires and plastered downtown businesses with graffiti before police moved in, dispersing crowds with tear gas and flash-bang grenades and making dozens of arrests.
Quote:
Most of those people had gone home by 11 p.m. Wednesday, when dozens of protesters took over a vacant two-story building at 16th Street and Broadway - two blocks from the encampment - that once housed the nonprofit Travelers Aid Society.
Hundreds of others looked on as protesters barricaded the block at both ends with wooden pallets, trash cans, tables and tires. They hung banners from the building's roof, spray-painted its exterior and chanted, "Whose street, our street!" One group of protesters broke cement blocks into baseball-size rocks.
Quote:
Police had kept their distance from Occupy Oakland protesters since coming under scrutiny for deploying tear gas and flash-bang grenades and firing projectiles in a clash last week that left one demonstrator with a serious head injury. Police critics said officers had used excessive force and violated city policies on crowd control.
But late Wednesday, hundreds of police officers responded to the area just before midnight. They found that protesters - many covering their faces with bandanas, and some in gas masks - had started a massive trash fire at 16th and Broadway that sent flames 15 feet high.
Police said later that they were concerned that the flames endangered residents in the area along with the 500 or so people on the street.
Quote:
Just after midnight, police ordered the crowd to disperse as an unlawful assembly. Soon, one officer on Broadway was struck on his face shield by a bottle, disorienting him.
"When to kill a cop" flies left at Occupy Phenoix
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/2...u-shoot-a-cop/

I can show many many more examples if you like?

I just don't understand why your not getting that the occupy members are being violent, committing crimes and blaintly screwing them selves over by doing such. There assulting the police, destroying public and priavte property, denying access to paramedics to there "campsites" while responding to call, reports of sexual assaults and aggresive beatings happening at there "campsite", stopping traffic, trashing the streets of Oakland with well tash and trash cans, lighting parts of the city on fire, etc...

The police are attempting to stop more damage and injuries from occuring, but the protests are being complete hypocrites. They're claiming they're being peaceful and that violence is wrong, but they are committing horrific crimes and then stating the police have no right to arrest them and keep the peace...

And yes I know, not all the protests are being violent and committing crimes, but when they take it to such a level as they have, the police must step in to protect the other members of the community.. Or have the occupy members forgot about the other 99%?

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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugez View Post
I would normally agree with you with about 70% of the "police brutality" videos that I've seen, but this one is probably the most blatant use of excessive force. He gets shot with a rubber bullet because of recording? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Not sure what to tell you Cosmo. Cops are going to be tougher in cities like NY and Oakland because they have to be. If you ask me, I'd rather my police force be a little on the tougher side than the lighter.

I don't know about police where you live, but remember America is a huge country with loads of police departments and tons of people working in that field. Having no respect for the profession because some asshole decided to shoot a rubber bullet is just simply unfair.
Let me start by saying yes there are times of exsesive force, but by this one video alone, you can not logically say that this was such a case. It in no way shows what happened before the beginning of the video, what was happening around this indiviual, if there were orders given to disburse, etc. Along with the fact that many videos like these get edited before hand just in an attempt to claim "police brutality".
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Let me start by saying yes there are times of exsesive force, but by this one video alone, you can not logically say that this was such a case.
It's not just one video. There are hundreds by now probably from the OWS protests alone. The general image for the police, very bad. I've given up arguing with you anyway on this.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 04:03 PM

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Originally Posted by BDF View Post
It's not just one video. There are hundreds by now probably from the OWS protests alone. The general image for the police, very bad. I've given up arguing with you anyway on this.
And yet you miss everything else I've posted.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 06:51 PM

I'm not going to weigh in on this particular debate, mainly because I'm not in a remotely informed enough position about things to comment properly. What I would say, however, is that making snap judgements based on one video is not a particularly rational response to the situation and certainly does not warrant some of the reaction on display here. If there has been an abuse of power, then that should certainly be investigated and dealt with accordingly. If, however, the officer was reacting to a genuinely perceived threat (and more importantly can prove that objectively) then that should be the end of it. I do not wish for people to be shot with rubber bullets, but nor do I condone slandering an entire profession based on one incident.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Top Quote: Again your misconspection of police tactics are completely off the real deal. Rubber bullets are not used "when the officers life may be in danger". If an officer feels like his life is in danger, thats when he uses his gun (with real bullets). Non-lethal weapons are meant to incapacitate, but not kill.
And he has to demonstrate that his life was in danger. Unfortunately for this officer, given that the incident was on camera and there were witnesses, unless he flat out lies he's going to have difficulty convincing anyone of that. Of course he won't be punished, he's a cop and cops can do whatever the fuck they want, but the fact that this video is out there is good because it's educating people about how fucked up the police force is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Bottom quote: Your kidding me right? This is why I don't take you seriously at all. "No protester is dumb enough to attack a cop even though they often deserve it."



http://online.wsj.com/article/APd1a0...37fa3bbab.html



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Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
I'm not going to weigh in on this particular debate, mainly because I'm not in a remotely informed enough position about things to comment properly. What I would say, however, is that making snap judgements based on one video is not a particularly rational response to the situation and certainly does not warrant some of the reaction on display here. If there has been an abuse of power, then that should certainly be investigated and dealt with accordingly. If, however, the officer was reacting to a genuinely perceived threat (and more importantly can prove that objectively) then that should be the end of it. I do not wish for people to be shot with rubber bullets, but nor do I condone slandering an entire profession based on one incident.

I appreciate your modesty, I really do, but I think that perhaps the reason you presume it to be a snap judgement is perhaps because you're not informed enough about the events around these protests? I'm not criticising you, but if one has followed these protests with interest one would know that the police have abused their power at least 20 times so far and that's just on camera. That doesn't include the stuff that hasn't gone viral yet or has been deleted in fear or simply wasn't recorded. And I certainly agree, if there honestly was a threat then by all means he should be able to use the rubber bullets, but I think the problem is that in this video there was no threat and it's foolish to try and argue otherwise. And while i agree that slandering an entire profession based on one incident is ridiculous, I'm slandering an entire profession based on hundreds of abuses of power, corruption and more.

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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 7th 2011, 08:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
I appreciate your modesty, I really do, but I think that perhaps the reason you presume it to be a snap judgement is perhaps because you're not informed enough about the events around these protests? I'm not criticising you, but if one has followed these protests with interest one would know that the police have abused their power at least 20 times so far and that's just on camera. That doesn't include the stuff that hasn't gone viral yet or has been deleted in fear or simply wasn't recorded. And I certainly agree, if there honestly was a threat then by all means he should be able to use the rubber bullets, but I think the problem is that in this video there was no threat and it's foolish to try and argue otherwise. And while i agree that slandering an entire profession based on one incident is ridiculous, I'm slandering an entire profession based on hundreds of abuses of power, corruption and more.
My refraining from passing judgement on the situation is because thus far, the testimony has been quite blatantly one-sided, sourced as it is from the protestors themselves. The fact that they are protestors does not make their claims prima facie invalid or inaccurate, but it does introduce a considerable level of bias which precludes any rational, informed judgement on the situation. The video in this instance, for example, provides no other information than the recorder's point of view and comments - it provides no information on what was going on behind him, or indeed any context as to what he was doing beyond holding a camera. I do not seek to cast aspersions on his conduct, but it is this lack of context which makes it very difficult to validate anything that took place. Indeed, you have effectively admitted above that your interpretation of events is based on your predetermined views on the police, which does not speak volumes for the merits of this particular piece of evidence. It is for those reasons, and those alone, that I refrain from passing judgement. I am fully aware of what is going on in Oakland and reports from there; at the same time, I am fully aware of the difficulties of gaining an accurate picture of such events owing to overriding self-interest in much of the reporting. On your last comment, I feel I must question how much of that is based on hard evidence and how much is based on your opinion.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 01:28 AM

I agree with cosmo, cops are pretty much 100% scum ... they feel big with their gun's and badge's.
I see what Austin is saying too, but don't believe everything you read in a paper a lot of it is bullshit.
If you get arrested enough you start to realise how sneaky they really can be.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 02:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
I agree with cosmo, cops are pretty much 100% scum ... they feel big with their gun's and badge's.
I see what Austin is saying too, but don't believe everything you read in a paper a lot of it is bullshit.
If you get arrested enough you start to realise how sneaky they really can be.
You know, if you replace cops with black people, you'd be an abhorrent rascist.

Frankly, I find what you said equally as offensive as if it was geared in that fashion.

If you don't like cops, fine. Keep it to yourself. Just make sure they know never to respond to your 911 calls in the event you find yourself in danger.


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I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 02:15 AM

Tsa running around screaming i am God is 10x worse..


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 03:57 AM

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
I agree with cosmo, cops are pretty much 100% scum ... they feel big with their gun's and badge's.
I see what Austin is saying too, but don't believe everything you read in a paper a lot of it is bullshit.
If you get arrested enough you start to realise how sneaky they really can be.
If you were shopping in a store when some guy came in with a gun, robbed the cash registers and you tried to stop him but got the shit kicked out of you then held hostage, would you want the, "scum" to come and hopefully rescue you? I assume by your last sentence, you were arrested several times and thus, you hate police.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 11:21 AM

I think that in the case of the Occupy movement there has been violence because the police see a massive crowd of people and assume they'll riot at any time. They get heavy handed to stop that from happening.

That's hardly the right way to go about things, police policy or not.

Still if you get a guy shot with a rubber bullet for filming something is wrong. Especially if you have guys next to him who should be stopping him from doing anything like this.

I don't doubt that the protesters have been violent in some cases, just like I don't doubt the police have over stepped the boundaries more than a few times.

This is a highly charged atmosphere and it's my opinion, note opinion, that sooner or later these protests are going to become a riot if the police keep up this level of heavy handedness.



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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 11:30 AM

The only thing bothering me about this whole thing now (since I'm pretty much desensitized to the rest...though that could be the meds I'm on atm) is I don't know where we go from here. We've been seeing videos like this for weeks now and quite clearly nothing has changed. Maybe people should go back inside their homes, in which case nothing changes; maybe the people need to step it up like the Arab Spring; or maybe we're stuck in a position now where nothing is going to get solved, and all we have achieved is to lessen the general opinion of the police force in the eyes of the public yet again.




   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 12:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Loki Lyon View Post
I think that in the case of the Occupy movement there has been violence because the police see a massive crowd of people and assume they'll riot at any time. They get heavy handed to stop that from happening.

That's hardly the right way to go about things, police policy or not.

Still if you get a guy shot with a rubber bullet for filming something is wrong. Especially if you have guys next to him who should be stopping him from doing anything like this.

I don't doubt that the protesters have been violent in some cases, just like I don't doubt the police have over stepped the boundaries more than a few times.

This is a highly charged atmosphere and it's my opinion, note opinion, that sooner or later these protests are going to become a riot if the police keep up this level of heavy handedness.
Mhm... the difference is that police are professionals on the job. The protesters, aren't. No one has a right to violence of any sort, but if I was to blame anyone for anything in these protests, it'd be the police. They're supposed to prevent violence. So far it appears from every source I've seen and read that they just made things worse for everyone including themselves.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 02:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Loki Lyon View Post
I think that in the case of the Occupy movement there has been violence because the police see a massive crowd of people and assume they'll riot at any time. They get heavy handed to stop that from happening.

That's hardly the right way to go about things, police policy or not.
The police have duty to be there. There job is public safety. If and when SHTF at a large event, the police need to be there to stop it. Imagine the headlines when there wasnt enough cops there; "Breaking news: 5 dead after shooting. Police response time to blame?", "8 injuryd after crowed stampeaads down town", "2 dead after car hits protesters blocking the street". It's really one of those damned if they do, damned if they don't things. But like they say, its better to have too much of what you need when you don't need it, then to not have enough of what you need when you really need it.

Quote:
Still if you get a guy shot with a rubber bullet for filming something is wrong. Especially if you have guys next to him who should be stopping him from doing anything like this.
If he was shot simply cues he was video taping, then yes, that is wrong. But like many others have said, we no nothing about what happened prior to the tape or really anything during the actual taping except some guy got shot with a rubber bullet.. But people edit videos all the time to put cops in a bad light.. So now we wait till we get all the facts.

Quote:
I don't doubt that the protesters have been violent in some cases, just like I don't doubt the police have over stepped the boundaries more than a few times.
Honestly, these protest have been getting violent for a while. The media for the most part, isn't showing that.

And have the police overstepped bondaries a few times, most likely yes, but I have yet to see any actual evidence of that.

Quote:
This is a highly charged atmosphere and it's my opinion, note opinion, that sooner or later these protests are going to become a riot if the police keep up this level of heavy handedness.
The first part, I completely agree with 100%. But sadly these occupy protest have already turned into riots a few times and thats when the police have had to stand there ground and not allow the protesters to violate the law or assault others.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 02:42 PM

I've been arrested a fair amount of times, doesn't make me a bad person.
But TigerTank I see what you're saying, personally I would never call the cops unless it was a rape or a paedophile. Just because when they end up in jail they get fucked up. I just call stuff how i've seen it. Sorry if I offend.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 03:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
I've been arrested a fair amount of times, doesn't make me a bad person.
But TigerTank I see what you're saying, personally I would never call the cops unless it was a rape or a paedophile. Just because when they end up in jail they get fucked up. I just call stuff how i've seen it. Sorry if I offend.
Just out of curiosity... what have you been arrested for? No pressure to answer. I've never been arrested, had some minor confrontations, but I've known several guys who got cuffed and taken for quite literally sounding disrespectful, nothing more. Seen it happen too, and more. No need to throw a dude against a car for using the "wrong tone" with the police. Respect is earned... not just magically given... yea, bullshit. Anyone who thinks otherwise can go f*k themselves with screwdrivers. But "sounding" disrespectful is beside the point even... because there was no damn reason to arrest anyone. I'm ranting.

Police brutality in the UK is still generally lower, because even hell goes down when there are witnesses to it and CCTV recordings etc. It's just not allowed, but a few will always get away with it.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 03:51 PM

Weapon charges, stolen cars, break and enters ... I totally disagree with it now. I've changed believe it or not, getting my life in order (Or at least trying).
Still I will never change my opinion on them, especially when you're in my situation trying to be the best you can be and they refuse to believe you're changing for the good. Hate when cops know you on a first name basis, constantly stopping you for nothing, questioning you for nothing, getting smart because they know it's your word against theirs. There have been 1 or 2 cops that had a good head on their shoulders though.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 04:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post
The only thing bothering me about this whole thing now (since I'm pretty much desensitized to the rest...though that could be the meds I'm on atm) is I don't know where we go from here. We've been seeing videos like this for weeks now and quite clearly nothing has changed. Maybe people should go back inside their homes, in which case nothing changes; maybe the people need to step it up like the Arab Spring; or maybe we're stuck in a position now where nothing is going to get solved, and all we have achieved is to lessen the general opinion of the police force in the eyes of the public yet again.
WHAT DO WE WANT?
WE DON'T KNOW!
WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
NOW!
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 05:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
Hate when cops know you on a first name basis, constantly stopping you for nothing, questioning you for nothing, getting smart because they know it's your word against theirs.
That says it. Frequently when I was out I'd rarely use my real name anyway. Had an ID with a false address to go with it. And I wouldn't do this just with cops (very rarely had to anyway), mostly everyone apart from people I knew and trusted a lot. I rarely spent time around my local neighbourhood so it never backfired, no one ever found out without my intentions. I do it less now. No need because I don't stick around the same crowd any more.

Also I'd keep a voice recorder on me lol. I've got a new one recently Olympus DM-5. It comes in handy when it's "your word against theirs", whoever "they" might be, police, employer, shop employee. I'm not paranoid enough to use it for every conversation... but something that matters, like a police questioning for example, I will, and I won't always ask first. Always use it when I'm doing a contract job where there's an agreed price of £100 for repainting a room for example. Twice some assholes had the audacity to try and bullshit me telling me at the end that we agreed a lower price. I love the look on their faces when I play back the recording. Jerkbags.

Off topic, totally. lol.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 06:04 PM

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Originally Posted by -A- View Post
Honestly, these protest have been getting violent for a while. The media for the most part, isn't showing that.



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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 06:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post


What you said.


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Says the guy who keeps posting topics on "police brutality" without presenting all the facts and encouraging violence on police officers simply due to his bias, anti-authority attitude.

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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 8th 2011, 07:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
I've been arrested a fair amount of times, doesn't make me a bad person.
Nobody here said it did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale View Post
I just call stuff how i've seen it. Sorry if I offend.
Personally, I prefer people who are willing to give their opinions with full honesty even if it hurts someone emotionally. Feelings or emotions can be dealt with very easily but trying to get someone to be completely honest can sometimes be a tougher job depending on the person, you may have to drag it out of them.

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
Weapon charges, stolen cars, break and enters ... I totally disagree with it now. I've changed believe it or not, getting my life in order (Or at least trying).
I've always had an interest in "severe" criminals, particularly psychopaths (I've done a few research papers on them and taken forensic psychology courses with FBI and RCMP agents in various fields). This isn't to say you're a psychopath or a criminal (I assume you've served whatever the sentences were) but if you wouldn't mind in a different thread or even in chat, I'd like to pick at your brain. I haven't been convicted of any crime.

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Originally Posted by Pale View Post
Still I will never change my opinion on them, especially when you're in my situation trying to be the best you can be and they refuse to believe you're changing for the good.
While that sounds nice, it's useless in a debate because you cannot provide some source that verifies your story. I view debates, as well as people as being understood more or less objectively, although I acknowledge everyone, including myself is irrational to some degree. I'm sure it is hard when the police may target you when they're trying to find the culprit but it's only fair to look through criminal records and chat with certain people. In other words, a way to rule out who is the culprit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale View Post
Hate when cops know you on a first name basis, constantly stopping you for nothing, questioning you for nothing, getting smart because they know it's your word against theirs. There have been 1 or 2 cops that had a good head on their shoulders though.
You did certain things that landed you in trouble and that's not the fault of the police. I agree, it is inappropriate for them to randomly stop someone and have an aggressive chat for no clear reason. They may have a interrogation chair with your name on it but that does not mean they should use it anytime they see you around. If a police said, "hey [whatever your name is] how have you been doing in the last few months?", there's nothing wrong with that. However, if the police said, "Put that burger down right now you ex-con! Now, what the fuck have you been up to around this area? A whole lot of shit has happened and I see you, so shit plus shit means a shitfest!", then that's not appropriate.

Quote:
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Also I'd keep a voice recorder on me lol. I've got a new one recently Olympus DM-5. It comes in handy when it's "your word against theirs", whoever "they" might be, police, employer, shop employee. I'm not paranoid enough to use it for every conversation... but something that matters, like a police questioning for example, I will, and I won't always ask first. Always use it when I'm doing a contract job where there's an agreed price of £100 for repainting a room for example. Twice some assholes had the audacity to try and bullshit me telling me at the end that we agreed a lower price. I love the look on their faces when I play back the recording. Jerkbags.

Off topic, totally. lol.
lol, I used to do that to my parents when I wanted something and asked them while they were half-asleep. Sometimes they'd mumble, "yeah, sure, ok", then I'd present that to them when they were awake the next day. Didn't always work, in fact it rarely did but was worth a shot.


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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 9th 2011, 01:20 PM

Nah I don't find out till December what's happening. My lawyer is trying to hold it off for long as possible.
   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 10th 2011, 08:56 PM

Austin (aka. -A-):

I don't know very well how the American police system works... but hasn't it ever occurred to you or anyone else that something needs to be done about their public image?

You keep saying something along the lines of that there is mostly only one side of the story on the news and TV, right? It would be very interesting and informative to see the other side of the story from the police standpoint, but so far in most cases (and none that I know of) this hasn't happened once. As far as I know, your police force hasn't explained itself even once to any satisfactory level, which understandably makes it look like they don't have an explanation for what they did and know it's wrong.

Your police force looks like it's on the ropes here in terms of their reputation because they almost entirely fail to explain themselves, and keep taking a beating from news reporters, individuals posting videos on youtube etc... so if you don't want people hating on the police, do something about it and answer back (I'm not talking about posting in forums, but getting leading figures in your police departments to step up and justify their actions).


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Man shot with rubber bullet for filming Oakland police - November 10th 2011, 09:23 PM

Very useful and interesting infographic.

One statistic I found particularly enjoyable: 70% of OWS protesters are employed compared to 56% of the Tea Party.
   
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