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Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 01:36 AM

I really can't resist this. Now I stopped watching Glee last season when the drinking episode disgusted me so much I had to turn it off. Because what could be better for teenagers to watch at 8pm but a bunch of teenagers getting drunk and making out and drinking at school and then getting away with it. However tonight's episode has been getting so much press that my curiosity got the better of me and I am now even more disgusted than I ever thought I could be. Now it's not just that this show, that tons of kids watch, is glamorizing teenage sex, that's not even what pushed me over to a level of disgusted I didn't know I could reach. No what truly made me get to a point where I just want to shout obscenities is that the reason two of the characters wanted to lose their virginity is because their director, a fellow student, told them they couldn't accurately portray the passion of Tony and Maria in West Side Story if they were virgins. As an actress, and a virgin, this pisses me off to no end. Now if the show wants to continue on this vein that's fine, I mean let me just also mention that another story line on the show right now is another one of the students is having an affair with the woman who adopted his child, oh and she's a teacher at the school... So I guess the debate here is do you think that the show should be canceled or moved to a different time and/or channel?


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 01:57 AM

I don't think it should be canceled or move to a different time slot. While it is ridiculous, the truth is that teens do have sex and do drink and get away with it. Yes, Glee is over the top silly. Maria, was almost certainly a virgin in West Side Story (though I can't speak for Tony) and Rachel should have known that, but it was thrust aside for comedic effect.

It's a show. And it's not even close to the worst one on.
   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 02:07 AM

It's a show that has a lot of influence on those that watch it.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 02:21 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
It's a show that has a lot of influence on those that watch it.
Yes. So do a lot of shows. Beavis and Butt-Head. Skins. True Blood. The Vampire Diaries. Gossip Girl. Bones. Pretty Little Liars. Desperate Housewives. American Idol. America's Next Top Model.

Seriously? Lots of people watch a lot of shows. I think Glee, which has the grace to show minorities and a broad range of intelligence, careers and personalities certainly is not the worst. It deals with complex issues such as teenage pregnancy and death (and the consequences of both). It shows very little sexuality compared to much racier shows such as Skins or True Blood. It doesn't use swears. It illustrates the consequences of one's actions. The stigma Quinn faces from her pregnancy, the stigma Mercedes faces from being fat, the difficulties Emma faces from her OCD, the difficulty Kurt faces with with his sexuality and his blended family, and how hard it is to be different in a small town. I personally believe Glee does a lot of good things and some bad things.

Why is showing teenage sexuality a bad thing? Yes, it was for a dumb reason. Teens make bad decisions all the time. But they have to take responsibility for their actions, and Glee does make them do that more often then not.
   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 02:56 AM

I've never seen the show, but I don't think it should be taken off the air. I know a show is rated for "adolescents in adult situations". But it's accurately portraying teenagers. That's one reason why I liked Skins, because it didn't make kids out to be this false image of innocence like in High School Musical or Hannah Montana. I thought Glee was similar to those two, but I guess not. Yeah, I feel weird watching it, probably because that stuff was foreign to me at that age. That's the way other kids are though, you shouldn't pretend like underage drinking and sex don't happen because that's only going to make it worse.

There's a great play called Dog Sees God about the Charlie Brown characters as teenagers dealing with things like sex, drugs, underage drinking, suicide, all that stuff. A lot of people hated it because it had that sort of uncomfortable 'your childhood is ruined' feeling from watching those 'innocent' characters you've known all your life grow up and go through those things. That feeling is the reason why I try to never think about my younger sibling now going through that, its uncomfortable because I still see him as a kid. I also think it's why people get so outraged over things like this. It's a lot nicer to think that teens aren't really getting drunk and losing their virginities, and if they do it's because of media influence, and not hormones and peer pressure. It's why parents are overprotective as well.
   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 03:09 AM

Agreed with both posters. If your under the illusion that teenagers aren't having sex now, or even underage drinking, it seems like you've been living under a rock. Teenagers DO and WILL continue to have sex, and drink underage. I don't think Glee should be removed from TV because they use sex as part of their script. Lot's of people watch different shows. If they aren't watching Glee, they're watching Jersey Shore, The Real World, 16 & Pregnant, and other TV shows that allow sex as part of their regular routine. Sex is something that happens, and taking off a television show isn't going to help that. We have hormones, and they aren't going to go away. It's something we have to live with, and will continue to have to live with.











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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 03:22 AM

Just because teenagers do that doesn't mean it should be happening. I mean good god find me a teenager on a show nowadays that's a virgin. How do you think that makes teenagers who are virgins feel? Let me tell you from experience not great. Now I had enough conviction to not have sex young just because everyone else was, but many kids now aren't like that. And I just don't understand that just because a lot of teenagers today are having sex, that every teenager on TV has to do it. No respect for the virgins anymore. In fact to be a virgin at my age in society is shocking. Now that's sad. All I'm saying is that this is supposed to be a show about a Glee club, instead it's a show about gay kids and sex. And I don't have a problem with a show being about that, but that's not what this show was supposed to be about, it's not what this show had supposedly set out to do.


Side note: I LOVE Dog Sees God, but I would never let a preteen read it.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 03:23 AM

There's no reason to cancel it nor to move it to a different time. It doesn't matter if teens watch this show or some other show, they may end up having sex, drinking, doing drugs and whatever else. You might as well say shows the glamorize teenage pregnancy (I forget what it's called, Mother Teen or something like that) because that's all the show is about. You must be living under a rock if you think teens won't fool around if there's no such depictions on TV. The show has some controversial story lines which is fine as it gets them more popularity when people discuss them. If you want the show to be removed from air or put to a different time slot, I'm amazed people can still comfortably sit/stand in a room with the size of your ego. You have to be incredibly self-centered to want the show to be changed because you find it disgusting. There's no reason to shit all over it and ruin it for everyone else. If you don't like it, then watch something else.

There are still respect for virgins, it's perhaps the individuals themselves who aren't respected for other reasons.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 03:45 AM

I love how people are thinking that me thinking it should be moved to a different time slot makes me a horrible person. There is a reason that racier shows are shown at later times, and if this show wants to be as racy as they are getting, and wants to keep going on the track it's going on that's fine, but then it should be moved to the appropriate time. The fact is when this show started it was an 8pm show, but it has changed, it really doesn't fit the criteria anymore. And for heaven's sake it's not just me that has this opinion, even fans of the show think it went a little too far just look at the imdb boards if you don't believe me. As far as my ego, I never said I wanted the show to change, I've said multiple times it can become whatever the writers want it to become, but at least have the decency to admit that the show isn't what it started out to be.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 04:59 AM

Not sure if you accurately watched the episode or not, But Finn was being persuaded by Rachel to have sex, yes, but Finn said no. And, to wait til it meant something, not just a character. AND, I want to add, they never showed an image of sex happening, which is a lot better than other shows on these days. They showed kissing. OMG let's freak out!! They kissed on TV! Oh noooooo. I mean come on, they didn't even strip their clothes. Other shows, obviously have. And, at the start of the show, they gave a rating for 14 and up.

There is nothing wrong with Glee, I enjoy for the reason they actually relate to things that happen to teens in the day. I would find it boring if they didn't.

Oh, and shows from the 90s like, 7th Heaven, talked about sex, drugs, alcohol, and such.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 05:32 AM

I'd support this mostly because I think Glee is the best example of shitty television.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 08:41 AM

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I love how people are thinking that me thinking it should be moved to a different time slot makes me a horrible person.
I love how you misread the criticism and turned it into something else. Every single post thus far opposed your suggestion of CANCELLING the show, far different from moving it to a different time slot. If you're going to defend yourself, at least know what the criticism is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
There is a reason that racier shows are shown at later times, and if this show wants to be as racy as they are getting, and wants to keep going on the track it's going on that's fine, but then it should be moved to the appropriate time. The fact is when this show started it was an 8pm show, but it has changed, it really doesn't fit the criteria anymore. And for heaven's sake it's not just me that has this opinion, even fans of the show think it went a little too far just look at the imdb boards if you don't believe me.
What is the criteria for a 8 pm show time-slot and how does it differ from 9 pm, 10 pm, 11 pm and midnight time-slots?

If you want the time-slot changed, provided you show how it deviates from the required criteria, then sure no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
As far as my ego, I never said I wanted the show to change, I've said multiple times it can become whatever the writers want it to become, but at least have the decency to admit that the show isn't what it started out to be.
Again, you're having reading comprehension difficulties. The ego comment was also in reference to you suggesting the show be CANCELLED. I know you don't want to change the show because nobody else said that, in fact, this is the first time you're saying it. You're putting words into people's mouths.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 08:53 AM

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I really can't resist this. Now I stopped watching Glee last season when the drinking episode disgusted me so much I had to turn it off. Because what could be better for teenagers to watch at 8pm but a bunch of teenagers getting drunk and making out and drinking at school and then getting away with it. However tonight's episode has been getting so much press that my curiosity got the better of me and I am now even more disgusted than I ever thought I could be. Now it's not just that this show, that tons of kids watch, is glamorizing teenage sex, that's not even what pushed me over to a level of disgusted I didn't know I could reach. No what truly made me get to a point where I just want to shout obscenities is that the reason two of the characters wanted to lose their virginity is because their director, a fellow student, told them they couldn't accurately portray the passion of Tony and Maria in West Side Story if they were virgins. As an actress, and a virgin, this pisses me off to no end. Now if the show wants to continue on this vein that's fine, I mean let me just also mention that another story line on the show right now is another one of the students is having an affair with the woman who adopted his child, oh and she's a teacher at the school... So I guess the debate here is do you think that the show should be canceled or moved to a different time and/or channel?
Honestly, I think you may have taken the wrong message from this episode. Overall, the point was that you should lose your virginity to someone who you love and not for any other reason. Tina (the only girl who had a positive experience losing her virginity) explains that. And that's what I think most teenagers will be taking away from the episode.

Besides of which, I think it is ridiculous to assume that teenagers are unable to separate fact from fiction when it comes to a show like Glee. Glee is a comedic show and sometimes, they take things to extremes because of that. People who watch the show know that. I find it highly unlikely that all teenager actors are going to go out and have sex just because they watched this episode of Glee.



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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 09:06 AM

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Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
I love how you misread the criticism and turned it into something else. Every single post thus far opposed your suggestion of CANCELLING the show, far different from moving it to a different time slot. If you're going to defend yourself, at least know what the criticism is.



What is the criteria for a 8 pm show time-slot and how does it differ from 9 pm, 10 pm, 11 pm and midnight time-slots?

If you want the time-slot changed, provided you show how it deviates from the required criteria, then sure no problem.



Again, you're having reading comprehension difficulties. The ego comment was also in reference to you suggesting the show be CANCELLED. I know you don't want to change the show because nobody else said that, in fact, this is the first time you're saying it. You're putting words into people's mouths.
I NEVER suggested the show should be canceled. The only time I have ever mentioned canceling the show was "So I guess the debate here is do you think that the show should be canceled or moved to a different time and/or channel" Not sure how you read that as me saying that I think it needs to be canceled right away.
Also while most of the other posts have only been referencing the canceled part of that question your first post starts with this sentence "There's no reason to cancel it nor to move it to a different time" Perhaps I'm not the one not reading carefully enough.

@ShimmeringFaerie That's one way of looking at it. Personally with Rachel's track record I don't buy her suddenly deciding that she wanted to have sex with Finn because she loved him, when it was motivated by her acting the NIGHT BEFORE. Considering she still had another night of performances I don't buy at all that she was sleeping with him for any other reason, except probably pity for him considering the conversation right before.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 09:22 AM

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I NEVER suggested the show should be canceled. The only time I have ever mentioned canceling the show was "So I guess the debate here is do you think that the show should be canceled or moved to a different time and/or channel" Not sure how you read that as me saying that I think it needs to be canceled right away.
You wanted to discuss those 2 options after watching Glee episodes and felt strong about it, one of which was cancelling the show. Perhaps your other posts didn't focus on it but from what I've always understood, the posts are meant to relate to the original post in some way and this included cancelling the show, hence it is relevant. I don't know what it is you're trying to argue by saying you never suggested it be cancelled, yet you provide a quote mentioning just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Also while most of the other posts have only been referencing the canceled part of that question your first post starts with this sentence "There's no reason to cancel it nor to move it to a different time" Perhaps I'm not the one not reading carefully enough.
I said that because those were the 2 options you wanted to discuss. After all, I said every post from other users criticized you because you suggested cancelling the show and my post did also. You're right, I did mention the time slot but in my previous post did I say no other post mentioned it? Nope. Did I say all the other posts focused ONLY on the cancellation option and absolutely no others (mutual exclusion)? Nope, so I'm not seeing your point. Instead, I said all the other posts focused on cancelling the show, which is a different topic than the time-slot suggestion, however, that is not the same as mutual exclusion.

You also didn't answer my other questions.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 01:50 PM

Personally, I feel ignoring things that actually happen with teenagers (like drinking and sex and yadda yadda) isn't going to make it happen less. Do I think they should have had some sort of negative effect of the "bad" things? I don't know, maybe. But moving it to a different time slot isn't going to do anything.

Lots of shows do this. Hell, Degrassi has been doing it for YEARS. But I don't personally believe these shows are the cause of teenagers doing these things. And if something on the show makes you uncomfortable, just don't watch it.



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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 02:01 PM

I agree somewhat with ShimmeringFaerie and Briana. After having watched the episode all the way through, I think you may have gotten a different impression then other people may have. Here's my now complete take, speaking simply on the sexytime issue and not on the other parts of the episode:
  • I loved Tina's speech about how she and Mike talked about having sex for awhile, and then just did it.
  • I was so glad when Finn and Kurt turned down their respective SO when they wanted sex for the wrong reasons.
  • I found Finchel's and Blaine's reasoning for having sex in the end to be fairly valid.
  • They didn't show anything. We see some horizontal kissing and then cut to both sweaty couples with their clothes on in a bed.

All in all, I think the message that this episode sends in the end- that sex, when done in way you and your partner want it, safely and with forethought, is actually quite good.

(PS: the most annoying part of the episode for me was when Kurt and Blaine accepted open drinks from Sebastian without seeing them opened/made themselves.)

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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 02:04 PM

I have a problem with Glee and Ryan Murphy in general, since I think he sees himself as a mouthpiece for this generation and intends on dictating everything. But I've stopped watching, and if it bothers you, you should too. I didn't stop watching due to some silly sex storyline, since doesn't every TV show have one of them at some point? I stopped watching because it has become downright ridiculous.

Why not be up in arms about that Jewish afro guy who was caught masturbating in season 2 at some point. Is that not just as bad?




   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 03:31 PM

I still love Glee,
I think that it shouldn't be moved or cancelled. It's a great show, and they're truthful about what goes on in teenagers lives even if no one wants to admit it.



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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 05:05 PM

I don't think it should be cancelled, partially because I freaking love Glee, but mostly because it deals with some pretty important issues. A later timeslot? Maybe for some episodes, but to be honest nothing explicit happens so they are sticking to guidelines.
As a lover of Glee, I must admit I did find the whole "you should lose it for acting" thing stupid, and the way he spoke to the teacher about her sex life? Unrealistic. But otherwise I think they handled the issue amazingly. Rachel realised she shouldn't be doing it for the acting reason. And the way Tina described losing it to someone you love, that was a perfect explanation for teens - someone you love and trust and only when you're both ready. As for Blaine and Kurt, I think it's great they're tackling the gay sex aspect, a lot of teens struggle with their sexuality, as well as sex once they're in a relationship. I like the way they showed that the feelings Blaine had for Kurt were more important to him than a little attraction to someone else, and how Kurt turned him down when the wrong situation arose, a lot of teens make the mistake of that situation and regret it.
And there was nothing explicit in it! They mentioned sex and condoms, that's it. Kids hear those words bounced around school playgrounds in highschool, it's not like they won't have heard them before.
All in all I think it turned out to be a great episode. With some really important messages for teens about when it's good and healthy to have sex and who with


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 9th 2011, 07:46 PM

I just saw the episode and I think it was a excellent way of handling such a challenging subject. I'm not sure why so many people are upset with it but sex scenes but it was handled very well not need to cancel it or reschedule it.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 10th 2011, 04:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
I'd support this mostly because I think Glee is the best example of shitty television.
Although I agree Glee is frigging horrible, I don't agree with the statements that have been made, not because it isn't neccessarilly glamourising teenage sex (which it is in a very minute way), but because it's a shitty attitude to have.
Teenagers have sex. Build a bridge and get over it. A LOT of them do, and the statistics show that conservative attiudes toward sex throughout nations do nothing to decrease rates of things such as teen pregnancies (comparison of America to countries like Norway).
Until people face the fact that teen age sex happens whether you attempt to hammer attitudes in or not, and that it isn't exactly a horrible thing, there's just going to be redundant uproar.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 11th 2011, 01:04 AM

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No what truly made me get to a point where I just want to shout obscenities is that the reason two of the characters wanted to lose their virginity is because their director, a fellow student, told them they couldn't accurately portray the passion of Tony and Maria in West Side Story if they were virgins.
Naturally the characters' thinking is skewed and unrealistic. Bear in mind that Glee is a comedy, and characacher-like depictions of people are adopted for this effect. I wouldn't say that Glee is attacking your choice to be both a virgin and an actress. Rather, the point is to distort reality to get a few good laughs out of the audience and to gain popularity. There are many things in Glee that are exaggerated or used as a springboard for comedy. Take Emma's mental illness, for example. I am clearly a strong advocate for people with these kinds of disorders. Yet I feel like Glee does a good job in touching on both the serious and comical side of issues. We all have to laugh at ourselves, right? And like the other posters have said, Finn and Kurt did not have sex at their significant others' request and did wait until it was right for them.

I also agree with Amy:

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Besides of which, I think it is ridiculous to assume that teenagers are unable to separate fact from fiction when it comes to a show like Glee. Glee is a comedic show and sometimes, they take things to extremes because of that. People who watch the show know that. I find it highly unlikely that all teenager actors are going to go out and have sex just because they watched this episode of Glee.
   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 15th 2011, 03:43 AM

I do like Glee, but I would stand by this for any other show, too. They handled the topic well, and the main message was to wait for someone who you loved enough to lose your virginity to, yes? And while I didn't like Artie's motives as far as it making them better actors, teens have a sense of their boundaries at this point. An episode of a show isn't going to suddenly sway their opinions. TV doesn't completely control teens' choices. And there are worse shows at there, that do glorify it more.
   
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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 15th 2011, 07:51 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
No what truly made me get to a point where I just want to shout obscenities is that the reason two of the characters wanted to lose their virginity is because their director, a fellow student, told them they couldn't accurately portray the passion of Tony and Maria in West Side Story if they were virgins.
Did you actually watch the episode?? I'm having a hard time believing you did. Yes, Artie told them that they couldn't play those characters if they were inexperienced themselves. And Rachel did want to lose her virginity for that reason. So when she went to sleep with Finn he refused, as he was hurt and recognized it was a bad reason for someone to make such a big decision.

Blaine wanted to sleep with Kurt to be more 'adventurous' and 'spontaneous', to which, again, Kurt was hurt and refused.

At the end of the episode both Blaine and Rachel realised that they were completely wrong and realised that the reason you should lose your virginity is because you love the other person and nothing else.

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Just because teenagers do that doesn't mean it should be happening.
Why should we ignore the truth? It's dangeous to just put our fingers in our ears and scream lalala over the top of reality, and it's why so many teenagers these days are so ignorant about contraceptives.

Besides, who are you to decide what should or should not be happening? These characters are not 12, they are about 17. When the clock strikes 12 and they turn 18 they are not going to be magically maturer than they were the day before. At 17 they are old enough to make the decision to or to not have sex and an arbitrary line in the sand isn't going to alter that.

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I mean good god find me a teenager on a show nowadays that's a virgin. How do you think that makes teenagers who are virgins feel? Let me tell you from experience not great. Now I had enough conviction to not have sex young just because everyone else was, but many kids now aren't like that. And I just don't understand that just because a lot of teenagers today are having sex, that every teenager on TV has to do it. No respect for the virgins anymore. In fact to be a virgin at my age in society is shocking.
You don't sound very secure in your own choices. If you're happy with you choice to remain a virgin why are you getting so worked up about a couple of characters who are in love and make the decision to lose their virginity?

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All I'm saying is that this is supposed to be a show about a Glee club, instead it's a show about gay kids and sex. And I don't have a problem with a show being about that, but that's not what this show was supposed to be about, it's not what this show had supposedly set out to do.
The show was never just about a Glee Club. How boring would it be if each episode was just 1 hour of them organising songs, practicing dance moves, preforming etc...

The show is about singing, yes, but it's more about the bunch of different teenagers who don't feel like they fit in coming together and finding their own idenities. That happens to include sexuality and 'gay kids'.

Ugh, I feel like their promoter... I don't even like Glee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I love how people are thinking that me thinking it should be moved to a different time slot makes me a horrible person. There is a reason that racier shows are shown at later times, and if this show wants to be as racy as they are getting, and wants to keep going on the track it's going on that's fine, but then it should be moved to the appropriate time.
I agree, lets move it to 11pm HBO. Wouldn't want kids to see 30 seconds of two people in a relationship, on top of their beds, with their clothes on, snuggling while songs from west side story play. Just thinking about it is getting me all hot and bothered.


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Re: Glee: The First Time - November 15th 2011, 10:52 AM

I'd say Hollyoaks is worse. And that's on channel 4 at six.
All sorts in that show, homosexuality, murder, psychopthy, underage sex, underage pregnancy, rape, violence, mental illness, crime... lets ban it, it's innapropriate.

It's adressing TODAY'S ISSUES. I don't watch Glee, but reading the posts it does sound like you are being over senstive. Calm the hell down, it's TV! It happens in real life too, are you going to ban real sex until after the watershed? Stop kids expermenting with alcohol, you can't, it happens, it's life. This is harsh, but open your eyes! You are living in a bubble.




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