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Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 05:02 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._lnk1%7C110998

What are your opinions on this? I think it's BS.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 05:16 AM

Well, it's either true, or he's just found the best excuse he can find to come out.

Either way, good for him. More women for me.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 08:45 AM

The real message is screwing up back-flips makes you a homosexual so screwing up a front flip would make you heterosexual.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
The real message is screwing up back-flips makes you a homosexual so screwing up a front flip would make you heterosexual.
The world's going back to front... or front to back. lol I'd laugh myself to death if that had happened to a homophobe though. Imagine someone like that waking up to realise they're gay.

It'd be like someone from the Klu Klux Klan waking up black.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 02:10 PM

I love where it says "according to the Daily Mail." I pretty much just rolled my eyes after that. The article isn't even about the fact someone recovered with a different sexual preference, it's about a JOCK who isn't BUTCH ANYMORE OMG.




   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 04:40 PM

I can understand why it would cause a stir. If it were true, then scientists would be like "omg...there's a way to correct homosexuality and make everyone heterosexual." It kind of picks at the "nature vs. nurture" debate. Do I think it's possible that he changed into a homosexual? I don't know. Do I think it was a way for him to come out of the closet blame something else? It's a genius idea, so I wouldn't doubt either scenarios. However, I'm leaning toward him using the stroke as a way to come out.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 04:54 PM

I don't like it but from my view of why people are gay I guess it works ... I think people are gay because theyr'e born with it, it's a state of the mind, not something we choose blah blah. And everyone knows strokes can alter peoples' minds. Sounds like I think it's a mental problem :/ I don't :P
I've heard of people waking up from strokes and being able to speak another language fluently or having a complete personality change. I guess this is kinda similar to that.
Chances are I'm wrong and he was always gay though hehe.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 06:23 PM

I've certainly never heard of a stroke affecting someone's sexuality in that manner, but then again I suppose it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility if the relevant region of the brain was affected. Some people who have suffered acquired brain injuries have undergone significant changes in personality as well as functionality, so I guess it is a possibility (however remote) that the same could happen in this area. The brain regulates all of these things, after all. It would make for an interesting case study, if only because it could help improve understanding of the nature of sexuality and attraction generally. The fact that such knowledge could be used for less than salubrious purposes is a significant downside, but as a pure knowledge exercise it could be interesting.

Anyway, I'm going to hold my hands up and say I haven't a clue how to call this one. My instinct is one of scepticism for the moment.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 9th 2011, 07:11 PM

It's definately possible. Strokes can drastically alter things like personality and mobility, so going by my view that sexuality is part of your personality (not suggesting it's something you choose or can change willfully), it could be true. Alternatively, he could have always been gay and having the accident made him reevaluate his life and realise that it's not worth being someone you're not.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 10th 2011, 04:50 AM

Doubtful. I think it's a very clever, albeit drastic, way to come out of the closet.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 10th 2011, 05:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF View Post
The world's going back to front... or front to back. lol I'd laugh myself to death if that had happened to a homophobe though. Imagine someone like that waking up to realise they're gay.

It'd be like someone from the Klu Klux Klan waking up black.


You know, that could make for a decent book or movie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
I've certainly never heard of a stroke affecting someone's sexuality in that manner, but then again I suppose it's not completely beyond the realms of possibility if the relevant region of the brain was affected. Some people who have suffered acquired brain injuries have undergone significant changes in personality as well as functionality, so I guess it is a possibility (however remote) that the same could happen in this area. The brain regulates all of these things, after all. It would make for an interesting case study, if only because it could help improve understanding of the nature of sexuality and attraction generally. The fact that such knowledge could be used for less than salubrious purposes is a significant downside, but as a pure knowledge exercise it could be interesting.

Anyway, I'm going to hold my hands up and say I haven't a clue how to call this one. My instinct is one of scepticism for the moment.
You often provided good information and sources to me, so you may find the link interesting. It deals with neurobiology and neuropsychology BUT it is extremely easy to understand and doesn't get into any nitty-gritty stuff.
http://depot.knaw.nl/812/1/15097_285_swaab.pdf (PDF). It says it's 19 pages but there's only 15 pages of actual text.

It's a chapter from the book called Sex, Cells and Same-Sex Desire: The Biology of Sexual Preference Vol. 28, edited by De Cecco and Parker.


I would love to start going on about the neurobiological and neuropsychological aspects, however, it's problematic because although the brains of homosexuals are shown to be structurally different, there's a problem with directionality. That is, are they homosexual because of their different brain structures OR are the different brain structures due to them being homosexual? One of the main researchers who found these differences was Simon LaVey (who is also a homosexual) in the late 1980s, early-mid 1990s, after he examined the brains of deceased individuals, and he has a few books published.

The problem of course is there have been various hypotheses that certain areas have a certain function but are refuted, so it's hard for the guy to say he had a certain brain area damaged when researchers may have already suggested it doesn't have a particular function.


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 10th 2011, 09:07 AM



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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 13th 2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
You often provided good information and sources to me, so you may find the link interesting. It deals with neurobiology and neuropsychology BUT it is extremely easy to understand and doesn't get into any nitty-gritty stuff.
http://depot.knaw.nl/812/1/15097_285_swaab.pdf (PDF). It says it's 19 pages but there's only 15 pages of actual text.

It's a chapter from the book called Sex, Cells and Same-Sex Desire: The Biology of Sexual Preference Vol. 28, edited by De Cecco and Parker.


I would love to start going on about the neurobiological and neuropsychological aspects, however, it's problematic because although the brains of homosexuals are shown to be structurally different, there's a problem with directionality. That is, are they homosexual because of their different brain structures OR are the different brain structures due to them being homosexual? One of the main researchers who found these differences was Simon LaVey (who is also a homosexual) in the late 1980s, early-mid 1990s, after he examined the brains of deceased individuals, and he has a few books published.

The problem of course is there have been various hypotheses that certain areas have a certain function but are refuted, so it's hard for the guy to say he had a certain brain area damaged when researchers may have already suggested it doesn't have a particular function.
Thanks for the link, much appreciated. I think the line which stood out most for me was the one at the end of the summary saying, "The functional implications of these findings in determining adult sexual orientation are as yet far from clear." As you say, it's almost a chicken and egg scenario as to whether the differences in brain structure cause the sexual orientation or vice versa. Hence why something like this would make a good case study (assuming pre-accident scans exist).


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 14th 2011, 02:05 PM

Bull Still, a fabulous way to come out




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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 16th 2011, 04:16 AM

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Thanks for the link, much appreciated. I think the line which stood out most for me was the one at the end of the summary saying, "The functional implications of these findings in determining adult sexual orientation are as yet far from clear." As you say, it's almost a chicken and egg scenario as to whether the differences in brain structure cause the sexual orientation or vice versa. Hence why something like this would make a good case study (assuming pre-accident scans exist).
It would be a good case study but I have to agree with the others, if I told this case study to someone, they'd tell me I should give my back a rest from shoveling all that bullshit their way.

I haven't looked up more recent research on the "chicken and egg scenario" but I'm pretty sure it hasn't gone far. If you want I'll try and find some, although I can only post a link that has the full article by searching on Google, otherwise I'd have to give you the password and username to access my research databases (which isn't going to happen).


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 18th 2011, 04:39 PM

Nice excuse to come out of the closet. I feel bad for the kid, for being that afraid to actually come out, but anybody with half a brain knows that strokes don't cause homosexuality. I just hope people aren't doing brain studies now trying to cure it, "Must be from...infant stroke activity!"


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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 18th 2011, 04:44 PM

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Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
It would be a good case study but I have to agree with the others, if I told this case study to someone, they'd tell me I should give my back a rest from shoveling all that bullshit their way.
I know - the bullshit-ometer's reading pretty high for me as well. Still, it could at least show his claim up for what it really is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
I haven't looked up more recent research on the "chicken and egg scenario" but I'm pretty sure it hasn't gone far. If you want I'll try and find some, although I can only post a link that has the full article by searching on Google, otherwise I'd have to give you the password and username to access my research databases (which isn't going to happen).
Don't worry mate, wouldn't expect you to anyway! Suffice it to say if you find anything of interest just shout.

Also, @Coffee: I wouldn't worry - the kind of people who would make that kind of snap connection aren't going to end up as neuroscientists anyway. Out of curiosity, though, if there was evidence that a difference in brain structure was responsible for differences in sexuality, and that a suitably sized bleed in the brain could cause such a difference, how would your response differ? I'm not suggesting there is, I hasten to add, I'm just curious.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick

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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 18th 2011, 05:48 PM

sounds like he was gay before the stroke.


but who knows, there is a very small chance that it is possible. brain damage in very localized regions of the brain can cause very unusual effects in some individuals,.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 18th 2011, 07:23 PM

I obviously don't know for sure, but I believe this story. It's a known fact that feelings are caused by your brain...so it seems to make sense that a change in your brain could cause a change in your feelings. I don't see why not.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 19th 2011, 02:45 AM

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I obviously don't know for sure, but I believe this story. It's a known fact that feelings are caused by your brain...so it seems to make sense that a change in your brain could cause a change in your feelings. I don't see why not.
There's no one area of the brain responsible for sexual orientation, as that to me implies sexual excitement when interacting with certain people. That excitement is regulated by the brain, however, some of it is in very deep areas that damaging it would cause other problems or simply death. If you see someone who you think is attractive, you'll get excited about him/her but those feelings do not come just from the brain. With other functions, such as language, isolated damage to a certain area will cause certain dysfunctions. There can be some very odd results, such as the case where a successful wealthy lawyer suffered from brain damage and subsequently quit his job, shaved his head, ditched his clothes, wore shower curtains and went off on some deluded belief. However, that lawyer had damage to a particular area of the brain where similar symptoms are known to occur. Sexual orientation is controlled throughout the brain, not in one area.

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Don't worry mate, wouldn't expect you to anyway! Suffice it to say if you find anything of interest just shout.
I did a quick look around, some are advanced and you may want to have Google open so you can see where these areas are in the brain:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2117556/

http://www.dafml.unito.it/anatomy/pa...001SwaabHB.pdf (describes some differences between male and female brains)


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Last edited by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!; November 19th 2011 at 02:57 AM.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 19th 2011, 01:55 PM

I think it was the only way that he could come out so he used the stroke to say that he had changed into a gay man when he had always actually been gay but was to scared to to come out because he thought that he would be bullied or abused for who he actually was.




   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 19th 2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
There's no one area of the brain responsible for sexual orientation, as that to me implies sexual excitement when interacting with certain people. That excitement is regulated by the brain, however, some of it is in very deep areas that damaging it would cause other problems or simply death. If you see someone who you think is attractive, you'll get excited about him/her but those feelings do not come just from the brain. With other functions, such as language, isolated damage to a certain area will cause certain dysfunctions. There can be some very odd results, such as the case where a successful wealthy lawyer suffered from brain damage and subsequently quit his job, shaved his head, ditched his clothes, wore shower curtains and went off on some deluded belief. However, that lawyer had damage to a particular area of the brain where similar symptoms are known to occur. Sexual orientation is controlled throughout the brain, not in one area.
Yeah, I know that sexual feelings come from many different parts of the brain....but if even one of those parts were damaged, wouldn't that have the potential to change at least some feelings?

Again, I'm not saying this story is true, but I'm saying I don't see why not. This is coming from a 17 year old who has only taken the minimum science classes required to graduate, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
   
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Re: Jock, after stroke, says he became Gay. - November 19th 2011, 07:24 PM

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Yeah, I know that sexual feelings come from many different parts of the brain....but if even one of those parts were damaged, wouldn't that have the potential to change at least some feelings?
I think I may be getting caught up in the word, "feelings". Do you mean emotions, physiological responses or something else? For emotions, yes damage to particular areas can change emotions and if damage causes other changes, one could be diagnosed with Capgras Syndrome/Capgras delusion (uses backward reasoning, very interesting). In terms of physiological responses, particularly at the brainstem and diencephalon, one would have other changes as well since those areas are very deep inside the brain. When it comes to sexual orientation, it's not limited to liking someone on an emotional level, instead it also includes increases in senses of self (i.e. self-esteem), physiological sexual arousal, change in how one acts around them, etc... . You can have damage altering sexual arousal, however, these people either become hyper-sexual (i.e. will arouse themselves whenever and wherever as much as possible) or hypo-sexual (i.e. the opposite). There have been suggestions that pedophilia may be a result of brain injury because the person favours kiddies, although it's not a well-accepted theory as it lacks evidence. The theory proposes hyper-sexuality toward children, even though the person may not have an emotional response, so it's hard to consider it a sexual orientation.

As mentioned before, ideally, we'd need neuro-imaging before and after the stroke, as well as cognitive and neuropsychological tests before and after, but that ideal isn't met. I believe the only time it is met is if the person is undergoing neurosurgery that could change their behaviours, so they want to quantify any changes.


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