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Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:21 AM

I don't really believe there is such a thing as over sexualization in modern times, and when it does, it's grossly exaggerated and often presents double-standards.

Recently, a video games "Gears of War 3" was claimed to be sexist. Here is a picture of a female character:

http://media1.gameinformer.com/image.../Anya_1280.jpg

Wow, she's obviously really over-sexualized and has hair/body completely impossible in a war. Let's look at a male lead:

http://media1.gameinformer.com/image...a/Dom_1280.jpg

If his rippling muscles, tatoos and shotgun don't give it away, if he were any more sterotypical male he would transform into a giant penis. Is either representation close to real life? Not at all. Only focusing on how the women featured in the game are impossibly shaped we must realize so are the men. It's really also worth noting that the women in the game are just as capable as the men, and are more than ready to adopt "kill or be killed" and achieve it through violent means, just as the men. They in no way exploit this femininity or sexuality to win wars, which is definately worth noting.

Here's another example, a totally oversexualized woman:

http://www.wwe-online-games.info/wwe...0kelly%203.jpg

No way can any "real" woman look like that. She's completely being explotied! She is a professional wrestler. Here is a link to a picture of a male professional wrestlers who buys into the ideal perfect female mate as the picture of the woman above buys into the male fantasy:

http://www.justbatista.com/wp-conten...ctures-100.jpg

He definately raises the bar for being a "fake" human being.

As one last example:

http://www.covershut.com/covers/Duke...over-50146.jpg

It was recently critized by Fox News for being sexist, and treating women as objects, as you can see by the womans hand approaching the man's crotch. At the same time, realize the obscenity that is on this cover, a macho man with huge muscles, smoking a cigar, holding a smoking gun, with sunglasses on, as things explode in the background. He is impossibly male, and the whole thing is impossible. A woman being objectified is probably the least offensive thing here.

In conclusion I feel men are often sexualized as often as women, and really it comes down to background noise.

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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:29 AM

I'm not a bad person but I honestly like when guys talk sexist haha I don't know why but I do. I always respond with a come back of course but I like it I don't know why girls get bent out of shape. I think its funny.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post

In conclusion I feel men are often sexualized as often as women, and really it comes down to background noise.
I completely agree.
I honestly don't care if there is a picture of a girl being "sexualized" in a video game, it just doesn't bother me. And the same goes for guys. I find it rather funny when old catholic ladies get their panties in a bunch complaining over nothing.
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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:38 AM

I often groan when I hear women talking as if we still live in the 1950s. Just as I groan when I hear men talking like we've suddenly flipped it all around and now they're being treated as if they're second class citizens. I think we've got it pretty good in the west, and we're pretty much on an equal playing field now.

But the idea that sexism doesn't exist? No offense, but that's pretty ridiculous. Of course it exists. Of course it happens. Of course there are sexist people in the world.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:46 AM

I never said it doesn't exist, I said over-sexualization in the media doesn't.

The purpose of this post was to point out that everyone is over sexualized. Race, gender, profession we're all being sexualized, and we need to deal with it.

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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:53 AM

I'm glad there is someone out there who thinks the same way I do.
I agree men are sexualized too, people just don't realize you can be sexist towards men.

I will disagree with you in one point, sexism does still exist towards women in modern times where it is not "grossly exaggerated and often presents double-standards."

In many parts of Africa, if you want a wife you have to buy her from her father. You can have as many wives as you want. If you want to sew your wife up so other men can't "take advantage of her," go ahead. If you want to rape her, go for it. She's your property.

In Iran it's legal to rape your wife. In court, two women equals one man when it comes to testimony. So if it's a woman accusing a man of doing something, if he said he didn't, well he didn't. Ever heard of Sharia Law? That basically sums it up right there.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 12:57 AM

Incompris: No, but that's not over sexualized, that is sexism. I agree that is wrong, and I support foreign femminists, but most femminists living in first-world countries often want to complain for the sake of doing so.

I'm really, really apreciating all the positive comments so far though. It makes me happy I posted this!

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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incompris View Post
I'm glad there is someone out there who thinks the same way I do.
I agree men are sexualized too, people just don't realize you can be sexist towards men.

I will disagree with you in one point, sexism does still exist towards women in modern times where it is not "grossly exaggerated and often presents double-standards."

In many parts of Africa, if you want a wife you have to buy her from her father. You can have as many wives as you want. If you want to sew your wife up so other men can't "take advantage of her," go ahead. If you want to rape her, go for it. She's your property.

In Iran it's legal to rape your wife. In court, two women equals one man when it comes to testimony. So if it's a woman accusing a man of doing something, if he said he didn't, well he didn't. Ever heard of Sharia Law? That basically sums it up right there.
That is crazy...wow.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 04:20 AM

Yeah, those Gears of War 3 comments were pretty obscene. That series is easily one of the most respectful to women regarding realism of appearance today. why they're not commenting on Mortal Kombat I have no idea...
As an egalitarian, I get pretty pissed off when women spout over-anaylised crap of ads, labelling it as cheuvanism or misoginy. I also am easily annoyed by men who think that women are somehow "taking over" mainstream media and promoting ideals that cause them to become inferior.
There is such a thing as sexism, but it is easy to see that being exaggerated, as Justin has shown.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 04:30 AM

This is just a funny topic to me. I honestly, don't understand why guys or girls get upset about this kind of stuff there are explicit images of men and women everywhere and I just think people are very temperamental.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 04:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
I never said it doesn't exist
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
I don't really believe sexism exists in modern time
10 characters...


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 06:02 AM

Oversexualization exists in all genders, and what you're talking about is a real thing. All genders (male, female, or other) are given ridiculous expectations about how our bodies should look. This isn't sexism. This happens for both sexes and all genders. However, sexism still exists. This isn't the example I would use. But the fact that women's pay is still significantly lower, and all that stuff.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 11:03 AM

Yes it's stupid. You'l always get sensitive shits like that, that will fuss over anything, probably just to get attention, or if not to get attention, then they're simply delusional and crazy.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
10 characters...
Aha, sorry that was my brain on autopilot there, I meant oversexualization. I edited it now.

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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 06:06 PM

I have nothing to add to this other than to agree with OP on some points but not others.

It's foolish to say that oversexualisation does not occur. I think it's more appropriate for us to say that oversexualisation happens to both men and women. I also think I'd be right in saying that the main difference is that women are complaining while men aren't. Women as a whole really don't like being seen as sexual in nature, whereas men care a lot less on the whole.


Honestly I don't think it's a massive problem. There are issues that arrise but it's not huge. I think a much more serious problem is over-sexualisation of children. It's a very worrying trend that children, normally girls, are becoming sexualised at earlier and earlier ages.
An especially worrying development is that department stores are selling very sexual products for young girls. Push up bras for pre-pubescent girls, for example; and many more totally inappropriate products.
I think it's an issue that needs a lot of sorting out as it's far more damaging and serious than sexualisation of adults.
   
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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
I think a much more serious problem is over-sexualisation of children. It's a very worrying trend that children, normally girls, are becoming sexualised at earlier and earlier ages.
An especially worrying development is that department stores are selling very sexual products for young girls. Push up bras for pre-pubescent girls, for example; and many more totally inappropriate products.
I think it's an issue that needs a lot of sorting out as it's far more damaging and serious than sexualisation of adults.
I get a bit irritated when I sometimes see 10-12 year old girls dressed up as strippers or something similar. It never turned me on... just pissed me off if anything. (P.S. I wasn't always 20 years old, bear in mind).

It's not attractive, or anything. I blame the parents though. If they're stupid enough to let their kid get totally swallowed up by bullshit on TV and the fashion industry, then they'l probably have to pay up when their kids start demanding on the high label brands from them. To start trying to reverse the damage at the age of 13/14/15 is leaving it very late.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 2nd 2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF View Post
I get a bit irritated when I sometimes see 10-12 year old girls dressed up as strippers or something similar. It never turned me on... just pissed me off if anything. (P.S. I wasn't always 20 years old, bear in mind).

It's not attractive, or anything. I blame the parents though. If they're stupid enough to let their kid get totally swallowed up by bullshit on TV and the fashion industry, then they'l probably have to pay up when their kids start demanding on the high label brands from them. To start trying to reverse the damage at the age of 13/14/15 is leaving it very late.
Kids are being brainwashed by fashion and tv shows into thinking that they can be 'famous' one day.
   
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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 3rd 2011, 01:14 AM

Have you guys heard of that little girl that posed for Vogue? It was a pretty provocative pose for a little girl to be doing and it caused a lot of controversy. There has been also companies selling children's lingerie and bikinis......that is ridiculous. Kids are definately exposed to this stuff way too young, and we wonder why we have such a high teen pregnancy rate. Not to mention pedophiles are probably having a fieldday. I'm going to try and find the link.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 3rd 2011, 01:32 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Health/...0803_xwide.jpg

^this is too much. Children are definately over sexualized. Not to mention impressionable and when they see their idols in an extreme miniskirt, they can't help but want to dress that way.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 05:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incompris View Post
I'm glad there is someone out there who thinks the same way I do.
I agree men are sexualized too, people just don't realize you can be sexist towards men.

I will disagree with you in one point, sexism does still exist towards women in modern times where it is not "grossly exaggerated and often presents double-standards."

In many parts of Africa, if you want a wife you have to buy her from her father. You can have as many wives as you want. If you want to sew your wife up so other men can't "take advantage of her," go ahead. If you want to rape her, go for it. She's your property.

In Iran it's legal to rape your wife. In court, two women equals one man when it comes to testimony. So if it's a woman accusing a man of doing something, if he said he didn't, well he didn't. Ever heard of Sharia Law? That basically sums it up right there.
We're talking about the Western World, and especially Western media here.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 03:45 PM

I think that men and women are roughly equal on levels of sexualization and objectivity these days, but I also think that there's still a clear gap in things such as pay for equal jobs between men and women. It's fairly common knowledge that women still make less money than men in most fields.


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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 04:10 PM

I think men and women are a hell of a lot closer to being equal than some feminists are ready to believe. Yes, there are jokes about women belonging in the kitchen all the time, big deal, guys are morons women make jokes about guys all the time too. That's just how we work, and I think having the ability to poke fun at each other will really get rid of sexism. Very, very few men ACTUALLY believe and make their wife stay at home to clean and cook.

Oversexualization is to almost be expected in our society, I hate it, but it's true. Happens to men too, obviously, but you don't hear them complaining about it.


But I have to also point out there is still a pay gap between men and women. The problem is, figuring out the reason why. Women are still more likely to choose taking lower paying jobs than men, that's their choice. Perhaps due to stereotypes, perhaps due to the fact that women are generally more sensitive than men and choose humanitarian type jobs.



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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 05:54 PM

Mr. Gir: Or natural body hormones/psychology, for instance men are naturally more motivated to get a job to raise a family, because men have been programmed providers since the begining of the human race. Women on the other hand have been programmed to raise babies and take care of children, which long-term may effect their careers.

Obviously we've evolved a lot since then and this doesn't really mean that this applies to everyone but on a subconcious level it does effect the averages.

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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 06:15 PM

It's for a few main reasons if you believe most of the studies done into this.

Men are more likely to push for promotions.
Men are more likely to argue for better pay
Men work longer hours and more overall - probably because they don't take a few years off to take care of a kid, a personal choice, and expect the company to pay you for not working. One cannot expect to come back and have their male colleagues be waiting for them. More likely, they've been promoted while she was away because they actually did something for the company.


Either way the pay gap is pretty small now. Only 9.1%.
   
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Re: Sexism, yeah right. - December 4th 2011, 09:05 PM

Just to add onto what Cosmo said...

Somebody said women are underpaid in certain fields than men. That's not really true. The 'wage gap' is not calculated that way, it is calculated across the board from census statistics and taking an average annual wage for males and females working full time.

If I were to hire two people for the same job, a man and a woman, then pay the man more simply because he's male, that would be very illegal.

The two main reasons for the wage gap are;

1. Women still take on the role of staying home and raising the child much more often than men, as cosmo said. Of course if more women than men are staying at home for long periods of time- say a couple of years at different periods if they have more than one child- women are going to likely make less than men as a whole.

2. Women are not employed in booming industries at the moment, like mining. Women tend to stay away from these kind of labor intensive jobs. I don't think 'the patriarchy' can be blamed for this as I've never heard one of my female friends declare they want to go operate a forklift or work in the logging industry.

So basically the wage gap comes down to women's own choices, and despite what kind of jobs women get in the future or who choses to employ them, as long as women continue to stay home and raise children I can't see the wage gap closing. And what's wrong with that? It only means that on average because women like men can choose what they want to do we earn less, it doesn't mean that you or I will earn less in our respective jobs than men.


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

~Arundhati Roy
   
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