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Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 12th 2011, 09:43 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16151310

Frankly, I'm pretty disappointed at the Canadian government over this - times are tough, but the cost of global warming is only going to get higher and I feel this is a very short-sighted decision. I usually admire Canada but on this occasion it's taken a bit of a beating.

Thoughts?


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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 12th 2011, 09:55 PM

Most of the news I hear is about the deficit and how we have to either do this, or cut down on support for the elderly or disabled, so I support keeping our people safe instead of the environment for a couple of years.

- Justin



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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 13th 2011, 08:21 AM

I know Canada's been talking about 'supporting this' but if they had really wanted to go through with this, they would have planned accordingly so this wouldn't have to happen... It's embarrassing because Canada's been framing themselves with the 'environmental' and 'nature - friendly' tag for years yet they're not able to do their part to help the global warming cause (something which could eventually destroy the world...). It's times like these in which I'm ashamed to be Canadian.


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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 13th 2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Most of the news I hear is about the deficit and how we have to either do this, or cut down on support for the elderly or disabled, so I support keeping our people safe instead of the environment for a couple of years.

- Justin
Perfectly understandable, but bear in mind that the social cost of global warming is itself estimated in the billions so this does rather smack of robbing Peter to pay Paul - particularly given that Canada's forests will be among the first to bite the bullet should average global temperatures rise as expected. When even China is criticising you on environmental issues, you know something's gone wrong.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick
   
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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 13th 2011, 04:59 PM

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Perfectly understandable, but bear in mind that the social cost of global warming is itself estimated in the billions so this does rather smack of robbing Peter to pay Paul - particularly given that Canada's forests will be among the first to bite the bullet should average global temperatures rise as expected. When even China is criticising you on environmental issues, you know something's gone wrong.
And yet China has huge problems between the rich and the poor, and low quality of life for the poor Chinese. Again, the environment is important, but it will not come to pot in MY lifetime, and I personally would rather have happy people, instead of further screwing the disabled and elderly.

- Justin



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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 13th 2011, 05:36 PM

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Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
And yet China has huge problems between the rich and the poor, and low quality of life for the poor Chinese. Again, the environment is important, but it will not come to pot in MY lifetime, and I personally would rather have happy people, instead of further screwing the disabled and elderly.

- Justin
My reference to China was more to point out that it has a pretty diabolical record on environmental issues, yet still felt in a position to criticise Canada's decision. I do not dispute that there is rampant inequality and poverty in China (although arguably the same applies in the West to greater or lesser degrees - we just don't like to admit it), but that does not negate my point. Likewise, you seem to be overlooking that (a) global warming is already happening and has done for the last 50 years and (b) rising average global temperatures will themselves "screw the disabled and elderly". Pitching the environment and welfare against each other is a political choice, not a genuine conflict.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 13th 2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
And yet China has huge problems between the rich and the poor, and low quality of life for the poor Chinese. Again, the environment is important, but it will not come to pot in MY lifetime, and I personally would rather have happy people, instead of further screwing the disabled and elderly.

- Justin
Actually it might just go to pot in your lifetime. We have projections of changes, but they are estimates only [with good confidence of course] but that doesn't mean to say it couldn't happen sooner.
I'm disappointed myself, the environment is the one thing we literally cannot live without, yet people just don't care that much. Or is it because no one really understands?
I really hope I'm alive the day the world runs out of oil so I can watch people trying to survive without it. From being independent animals surviving in the wild we have become dependent on so much that we do not need. I'm not saying we should all go back to being wild [though wouldn't that be fun] but rather try and respect the only planet we have.
I don't think the Kyoto Protocol is going to fix everything, but it's a start that everyone should be involved in if we want to keep the planet functioning as it should.


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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 15th 2011, 09:33 PM

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Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Most of the news I hear is about the deficit and how we have to either do this, or cut down on support for the elderly or disabled, so I support keeping our people safe instead of the environment for a couple of years.

- Justin
And you don't think that perhaps the news you are hearing is bias since the Canadian government would obviously want to paint itself in the best possible light? I think it's ridiculous to act like Canada only has two choices: withdraw from Kyoto OR withdraw support for disabled/elderly. I have a very hard time believing that there is absolutely nothing that they could do to apart from those two options. It sounds more like they have not been trying hard enough to reduce their emissions and now they don't want to face the conesquences of that.



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Re: Canada to withdraw from Kyoto Protocol on global warming - December 16th 2011, 12:31 AM

ShimmeringFairie: Now, but I've witnessed the problem first-hand. They WILL close schools should they not meet the deficit. They've already cut school spending to pathetic numbers, they WILL cut disability funds, they already have in the past.

Even if they aren't as strapped for money as they claim to be, they'll cut other things for the environment as they have in the past.

- Justin



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