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Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 05:38 PM

So after a few days of petty arguing and sly moves by the Westminster government, we finally have a date (roughly) for our independence referendum - Autumn 2014.

I'm asking this here because, while there aren't many Scottish members, I do wonder what the opinion of independence is from other parts of the UK? I've heard opinions from both sides from other Scots but I haven't heard much from England, Northern Ireland or Wales.

Are you guys pro-Scottish independence, or should we remain with the union? How much involvement should Westminster have in the referendum, if any at all?




   
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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 06:28 PM

Shouldn't we be looking for cohesive leadership and working towards everyone feeling a sense of loyalty and community, rather than further fragmenting a tiny and failing nation? Of course I recognise the desire for nationalistic pride, but at the same time, does the UK really need Scotland splitting off right now? It seems to be that it benefits nobody and makes the economic (and further) situation even worse for both.
   
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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 06:36 PM

There isn't really a sense of loyalty or community when you consider that out of all the MPs in Scotland, only one of them is a Tory. What was that line...there are more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs.

The Conservatives have been notoriously London-centric, since always. Yesterday, the sole Scottish Tory MP said that Scotland voted for the Westminster government and we voted for the Holyrood government. Look at the facts. We voted for one of them. We sure as hell did not elect the Westminster government.

Right now, Westminster offers us no community, which is how and why the SNP managed to win an election in a system that is designed to never produce a majority.

I'm not anti-English, and I love English culture in fact, but people sitting in London have no idea what is going on north of the border. Hell, people in Carlisle feel left out and they're in the same country.




   
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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 06:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post
There isn't really a sense of loyalty or community when you consider that out of all the MPs in Scotland, only one of them is a Tory. What was that line...there are more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs.

The Conservatives have been notoriously London-centric, since always. Yesterday, the sole Scottish Tory MP said that Scotland voted for the Westminster government and we voted for the Holyrood government. Look at the facts. We voted for one of them. We sure as hell did not elect the Westminster government.

Right now, Westminster offers us no community, which is how and why the SNP managed to win an election in a system that is designed to never produce a majority.

I'm not anti-English, and I love English culture in fact, but people sitting in London have no idea what is going on north of the border. Hell, people in Carlisle feel left out and they're in the same country.
FYI I'm completely Anti-Tory. I completely agree with you that there's no sense of community. I'm saying that there should be, and that splitting the two apart is really not going to help very much. I agree that Scotland deserves far more control over it's own land though.
   
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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 07:55 PM

Much as I think it's about time the SNP pulled its finger out and acted on one of its main election pledges, I don't think there's actually much enthusiasm for an independent Scotland - and given the hedge-your-bets approach the Scottish Government has taken in how the questions are drafted, I'm not sure they're convinced either. I do believe the Scottish Parliament should have more powers devolved, because as you point out they have a far greater grasp of things than Westminster, but full-blown independence would be a very costly exercise with little tangible benefit. I'm a Welshman by birth and I think the same though crossed my countrymen's minds back in 1997, given how close the devolution referendum was and how little appetite there has been for independence since then. Granted, Wales is not really in a feasible position to become independent anyway - the infrastructure alone is pretty shocking, let's be honest - but in all honesty I don't think Scotland's position is much sounder at present. Outside of the North Sea oil reserves, it doesn't have a particularly strong or diverse home economy and would probably struggle to finance itself without significant tax increases, which would hurt its competitiveness - particularly with one of the world's largest economies as its immediate neighbour. So for me, I can't see what Scotland gains from this.


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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 10th 2012, 11:17 PM

I'm largely indifferent here... but generally I think countries should learn to stick together better. Then again, if Scotland is doing better for themselves than England (I don't know if they are, maybe they're not), then I don't blame them at all for wanting a split. Same way a lot of Brits want to split from the EU. I have always backed being a member of the EU, but recently it has been ridiculous.

If they do split, I hope they do well for it... otherwise it will be a terrible waste of time, effort and money.


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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 11th 2012, 06:51 PM

I've not really payed enough attention to give an informed opinion, but I'd just like to point out that Westminster don't just have no clue what it's like in Scotland, they don't have a clue what it's like outside of Westminster. We here in England are being screwed over by a government that we don't want too.


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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 12th 2012, 04:03 PM

I doubt it's relevant, but my dad reckons they picked this time for the referendum because it's the anniversary of when we defeated England. (Or something similar, I don't always pay attention to his rants ) He thinks that by having it then, there are likely to be more people voting FOR Scottish Independance.


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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 12th 2012, 04:17 PM

I think it's silly.
   
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Re: Scotland Autumn 2014 - January 12th 2012, 05:27 PM

There's a lot of talk of it being the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn...but I don't think the SNP themselves have ever said that that's the reason. If anything, I would say it's more likely because they said they'd hold it in the second half of their term. We also have the Commonwealth Games that year too.

Amusingly, the SNP have banned the word "freedom" from the pro-independence campaign.




   
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