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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Exclamation Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 03:26 AM

I'm a big Christian, go to church every Sunday, goes to youth group every Monday and Wednesday.... But I believe in and support same sex marriage. I keep reading that you go to hell for supporting, and god hates the gays and other people, does God hate me and will send me to hell for supporting same sex marriage?!?!?!?!? I mean why can't gays live happily amoung us people?

But I'm really scared for when I die I will be sent to hell for supporting it.

Also I've been baptized and I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, so I am a Chrstian, does hate me along with the gays, bi's and lesbians? Will I be sent to hell?????

I just really need help on this and really scared! I want to go to heaven not to hell.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 04:01 AM

First off, god loves us all. He doesn't hate ANYONE, he only hates the sin.

That being said, I do not believe for a second that homosexuality is a sin and I do not believe at all if you simply support it you will go to hell. And I am a Christian, as well. I'm a big activist for gay rights, there is nothing wrong with supporting gays. People who say you'll go to hell simply for supporting gay people, and those that say god hates gays, are just crazy fanatics that push their beliefs on other people and make god seem like an angry pissed off jackass. I don't believe it for a second.

I highly highly doubt that a devout Christian like you would be sent to hell simply for being supportive of gay rights. You don't have to keep your nose in the bible and blindly follow all that it preaches. It's okay to follow the basic teachings of the bible and still make your own beliefs, as well. I believe in god and Jesus, I am a Christian, but I support homosexuality completely. And I do not believe I'm going to hell for it.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 04:29 AM

Honey don't worry about it. Will you be sent to hell for this, I honestly have no way of knowing. No one does. Everyone has different things they believe, but no one really knows. But here is what I say, just don't worry about it. Live you life the way you believe is right, believe in what you believe in your heart is right. Just live your life for your life and the actions you make during it, don't worry about death, right now it's a non issue.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 06:00 AM

I think the, "don't worry about it," advice isn't worthwhile or helpful. If this is something that is bothering your conscience, seek the Lord in prayer, and search your Bible until you find an answer. I wouldn't take anyone's advice, including my own opinion, as much more than a grain of salt. I find that a lot of times when something bothers our conscience, we try to seek teachers and people who will support us, rather than be honest with us. So, seek the answer through prayer and reading the Bible.

However, the thing is, if you're a Christian, you won't go to Hell, or wherever the unbelievers go after death. I don't mean a "Christian" as in someone who goes to Church, takes the Eucharist, was baptized, and believes in G-D. I mean someone who rests only on Christ for salvation from sin, death, and judgment.

As far as being supportive one way or the other, politically speaking, I believe anyone can do whatever they want. Now, that doesn't mean I support things like abortion, murder, rape, I don't (and no I'm not equating these to homosexuality, I'm just giving example). But, I don't believe it's my place to force people to be pro-life. I believe that's up to the individual and G-D. Sure, I can offer my opinion, which, I believe abortion is wrong. But, I won't vote pro-life, because I don't believe we should restrain people from sin by making things illegal.

So for this, personally, I think homosexuals should be allowed to be married. But, this doesn't mean I have to actively support or reject it. When it comes to voting on this issue, I will always vote pro, simply because I don't believe it is the governments right to deny human rights. Even if I disagree with them.

Perhaps look into a similar approach. Not that I am right, or anything, I'm probably not. I just find you have right-wings who say, "No! It's bad! It's sin! We should make laws against it!" Then the left-wings who accuse right-wings of being narrow-minded etc. I don't believe it's any of the governments business what people do or don't do. Personally, I am not for gay marriage, but I don't actively stand opposed to it. I don't believe it's any of my business to force people who are gay to remain single. When has the Bible ever condoned forcing people to do or not do anything? Christ told us to warn people and urge them to do certain things, but not force them.

I mean, think about it, if your friend was like, "I am going to go get drunk." You might think, "Okay, well that's not a good idea." But you wouldn't force them or place a law on them that refrains them from drinking entirely.

I don't know. I am rambling.

Sorry.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 06:05 AM

What would Jesus do?


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 07:06 AM

I'm Roman Catholic and personally love the Church but the place I disagree with them is homosexuality. I feel like God wouldn't punish people for being the way that he made them. He made homosexuals and bisexuals just like he made heterosexuals and any other type of sexuality. People can't help the way they were created. I didn't choose to be heterosexual just like my friend didn't choose to be homosexual we just are the way God made us. He wouldn't smite people for the way he made them. That woukd just be crule and not the God that I personally know. I feel like although the scriptures may support the whole homosexuality is bad by saying it's unnatural and stuff but I don't think scripture should be directly interpreted. And plus if God made homosexuality how can it be bad or unnatural since in the Bible it says that God only created good not evil. This is a topic I'm very passionate about. I gave you the short version of my explanation/rant. Feel free to PM me if you would like the long version or if you just would like to talk. I'm always here

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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 08:27 AM

I think it's something you need to figure out yourself. I'm not a Christian, so my advice is not the greatest for this subject, but isn't there that part of the bible where a woman who had committed adultery was going to be stoned to death and Jesus said "He who has not sinned shall cast the first stone." Everybody sins. Even if believing in it is a sin, which I'm really unsure it is, I'm overall really unsure how caring about the human rights of others, but ANYWAY, I doubt this is something you'll go to hell for.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenonsteroids View Post
What would Jesus do?
I'm not sure! I am a Chirstian but I deal with enough stuff surrounding my closeness with him, lying, cussing, sinning or anything else that goes to that. But now I have this just rearing it's ugly head into this making me worry and stress enough over school, I don't want to be thinking of this right now, but I do!



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 04:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I think the, "don't worry about it," advice isn't worthwhile or helpful.
Why? Why live your life only worried about your death? Why base every decision you make on what's going to happen after you die? You don't know what's going to happen after you die, but you do know what's happening right now in your life. I don't understand why people can't just live their lives focusing on the consequences that their actions will have in life, something we know exists and is happening. I think it's just so freakin morbid to constantly be basing your life decisions on what you want to happen after you die. Let death be death and life be life. And for me life is the more important of the two.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 05:47 PM

Sure you are. God hates gays, and that is a known fact. You know hate groups speak with God every day, and he tells them just how much he hates gays. You will most certainly meet Satan in hell.

Pfft. Big load of shit, right there. No one knows God personally, therefore we cannot be the first to decide what he wants. One passage brought up that we should forgive homosexuals for their sins, several more mention loving EVERYONE and being forgiving of all sins.

I'm a Christian and I believe love is love. I fully support gay marriage. If we start judging what constitutes as love, we aren't Christian. If I got to hell for my beliefs, at least I went there for doing the right thing by giving and supporting equal rights to all of God's creations.

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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 07:31 PM

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Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Sure you are. God hates gays, and that is a known fact. You know hate groups speak with God every day, and he tells them just how much he hates gays. You will most certainly meet Satan in hell.

Pfft. Big load of shit, right there. No one knows God personally, therefore we cannot be the first to decide what he wants. One passage brought up that we should forgive homosexuals for their sins, several more mention loving EVERYONE and being forgiving of all sins.

I'm a Christian and I beleive love is love. I fully support gay marriage, and if I got to hell for it, at least I went there for doing the right thing, giving equal rights to all of God's creations.

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I asked my pastor this, and he was kind of mean about it, saying I will, not the answer I was quite hoping for... I might ask this again in my youth group tonight and ask my teacher tomorrow. I'm so confused.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 07:34 PM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
Why? Why live your life only worried about your death? Why base every decision you make on what's going to happen after you die? You don't know what's going to happen after you die, but you do know what's happening right now in your life. I don't understand why people can't just live their lives focusing on the consequences that their actions will have in life, something we know exists and is happening. I think it's just so freakin morbid to constantly be basing your life decisions on what you want to happen after you die. Let death be death and life be life. And for me life is the more important of the two.
Being a Christian it is in my thoughts, it is important that you go to Heaven not Hell.

Heaven has the streets of golds and our lives with the people we have lost (if they were believers) I am deathly afraid of death so I'm sorry I have upset you with my thoughts.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 07:59 PM

Your church sounds like it is making you live your life in fear. That was not Jesus' intention. Your pastor does not decide if you go to hell or not, so stop putting so much emphasis on what he says. Read the Bible and come to your own conclusions.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 10:08 PM

First of all God does not hate anybody. He loves all he created. He just doesn't like sinning.

Everyone's going to give you a different opinion on this, because different religions and branches within those religions are going to believe something different.

Personally, no, I don't believe that supporting same-sex marriage will make you go to hell; I don't believe that MARRYING someone of the same-sex will make you go to hell. The way I see it, love is love, and it is beautiful no matter what package its wrapped in. I believe God celebrates that, not condemns that.

Personally I believe that it is dishonest to yourself and to God to live your life in a certain manner not because you feel it's right, but because you afraid of the consequences. You are afraid of "not getting it right." And frankly, I don't believe that is how we are meant to live.

So take your own conclusions from this and do what is right for you.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 14th 2012, 11:26 PM

Exactly, you can't have the belief of one preacher or one youth group determine how you feel about this, it's important to draw your own conclusions and allow yourself to make your own choices on religion, not just to believe what one preacher tells you.

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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 12:40 AM

Jesus loved the people that others didn't. God doesn't hate anyone. You won't go to hell for supporting gays. Thats a load of crap. If anything, God would be proud of you for being accepting. Thats how I see it.


   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 01:23 AM

I just want to say, that people should be careful to say, "G-D loves everyone," when scripture says things like, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I just want to say, that people should be careful to say, "G-D loves everyone," when scripture says things like, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13

Of Mike and Men is right.... And the story of Solomon and gamorrah??? Lot's wife got turned into a pillar of salt for looking back!!!! They left because the world was corrupted because men were having sex with men and women having sex with other women! God told them not to look back when they heard the screams and the cries for help! Meaning God must of killed them or sent something bad to them!



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 02:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I just want to say, that people should be careful to say, "G-D loves everyone," when scripture says things like, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13
Again, you're making god seem like a pissed off asshole. That was in the old testament, most of which Christians today do not follow.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Koharuchan View Post
Again, you're making god seem like a pissed off asshole. That was in the old testament, most of which Christians today do not follow.
I forgot about that. That was in the old testament, in which today Christians don't follow by the old testament.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 15th 2012, 06:48 PM

Forgive me if I said something wrong about G-D. However, all I did was post a new testament passage. Not an old testament passage. Paul wrote that in Romans, and Paul believed that, and Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament. The only thing that doesn't apply to a Christian in the Old Testament is the law. But, even then, we uphold the law because it brings a knowledge of sin. The early Christians only had the Old Testament to live by. If it was good for them, and if it was good for the major Author of the New Testament, it's good for me. I believe that Romans passage can be interpreted differently, but, all I said is we should not be so quick to make statements about G-D, especially when there is a direct conflict with an apostle who says otherwise. If that makes G-D an asshole, then, I guess in your opinion, I believe in an ass of a G-D.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 16th 2012, 03:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Forgive me if I said something wrong about G-D. However, all I did was post a new testament passage. Not an old testament passage. Paul wrote that in Romans, and Paul believed that, and Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament. The only thing that doesn't apply to a Christian in the Old Testament is the law. But, even then, we uphold the law because it brings a knowledge of sin. The early Christians only had the Old Testament to live by. If it was good for them, and if it was good for the major Author of the New Testament, it's good for me. I believe that Romans passage can be interpreted differently, but, all I said is we should not be so quick to make statements about G-D, especially when there is a direct conflict with an apostle who says otherwise. If that makes G-D an asshole, then, I guess in your opinion, I believe in an ass of a G-D.
I can't help but laugh, I mean even the bible said nothing about Gay marriage and stuff... Only stuff I wasn't looking for...



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 12:09 PM

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is truly born again. Jesus even says in Matthew:

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 7:21).

And the apostle Paul warns about sexual sin among professing Christians:

"I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person." (1 Corinthians 5:9-11).

There are also Christians who claim to be receiving Revelation from God about the rapture. According to this one woman, only 10% of the church will be raptured when Jesus returns. The large majority of people who go to church are still living in some kind of unrepentant sin. The fact that so many professing Christians support homosexuality just proves what Jesus warned about:

And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who do iniquity' (Matthew 7:23)
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 03:12 PM

I'll get back to this thread, because I want to pray about this and make sure I word it accurately before responding. I do want to reply to a few specific quotes though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koharuchan View Post
Again, you're making god seem like a pissed off asshole. That was in the old testament, most of which Christians today do not follow.
Romans 9:13 is the New Testament. It's quoting something from the Old Testament, but it's saying in Romans that it still applies. Read all of Romans 9 if you want the full context of the verse though instead of just one sentance of it.

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Originally Posted by minniemouseprincess View Post
Jesus loved the people that others didn't. God doesn't hate anyone. You won't go to hell for supporting gays. Thats a load of crap. If anything, God would be proud of you for being accepting. Thats how I see it.
Jesus did have compassion on the sinners, but not the sin. For example, the story of the woman who was caught in adultery. He had compassion on her and let her go free, but He still taught that adultery was wrong. In the same way, we should have compassion on homosexuals, but that doesn't mean that we should agree with what they do.

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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 03:20 PM

It's all bull.Nothing will happen to you when you die,just be a few feet into the earth that's all.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 03:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Koharuchan View Post
Again, you're making god seem like a pissed off asshole. That was in the old testament, most of which Christians today do not follow.
But he is a spiteful bastard, is he not? How can you take the word of one as fact and the other as fiction when they are both (supposedly) the word of God?

Whatever you believe, homosexuality is not naturally wrong. How could it be naturally wrong when there's documented evidence of the likes of Black Swans, elephants, penguins, giraffes, selected dolphins and bisons all digging into the same pies as their own? It's not unnatural, by any means.

Can God truly hate all homosexuality, when he created nature, animals and other wildlife? Why would he create something he hates? Yes, he gives us free will, but what about other animals?

I'm an Atheist, but it hasn't completely dawned on me how God can hate homosexuality.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 04:01 PM

^ The bible says that everything on Earth has a sinful nature...so something being natural doesn't make it okay.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 04:11 PM

It's no good trying to reason with an atheist. They hate God and they hate His commandments. Deep down they know God exists because you can tell with their attitude that they are insecure and that they hate Him. The Bible is very clear about homosexuality: It is an abomination, it is sin. We still need to love everyone, but we cannot condone any sin. All unrepentant sin will take a person to eternal hell. Why gamble with your eternity? It's not worth it.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 04:46 PM

And here I see Christian morality at its high point, and O how conservative you can be!

Firstly, you do not "reason" with an Atheist if you are as conservative as you impress on people. You do not "reason" because you have no reason. You have no rational thoughts, no sense to look outside a book written hundreds of years ago. No thought or critical thinking of your own great piece of literature. You would believe everything it tells you! I like to think magic is real, but I don't take Harry Potter as concrete. I certainly don't think that the "magic" of God (let's face it, if he can create a universe, he's either a narcissistic, bi-polar super-genius, or he's a magician) can be concretised by a fisherman or a tax collector. And if it can be, he makes for a great villain!

Oh, but where do you get your morals from? An omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent super being that has the morals of a very, very spiky fish! Oh yes, that's right, he loves everyone - except those who commit mortal sins. Oh yes, that's right, you can be forgiven for mortal sins, despite the obvious consequences implied in a "mortal sin". Let's not forget grave sins, deadly sins, serious sins, grievous sins and grave offenses! What is NOT sin?! Masturbation is a grave sin. Lying is a mortal sin! Sorcery is higher on the chain than both of them! But what is sorcery!? Something science cannot explain? Oh, God, God does a grave amount of sinning!

Morality? Pfft. How do you even survive with those morals? I would have been pushed to the brink with guilt if I were you! No, I derive my morality not by picking and choosing what sins require repentance and what does not! Masturbation? You've done it. I bet everyone above the age of 13 would have done it at least once. How many feel guilty enough to repent? A select few? Jesus, Heaven is going to get pretty lonely! No, I get my morality from something far more complex. I derive it from law, society, family, nurture. Morality from a book? You've got to be joking.

You can't reason with us because conservatism gets you nowhere, and you just make a complete fool of yourself by concretising scripture that you pick and choose from anyway! Conservatism? Try being as accepting of Atheism as I would (normally) be of Christianity, had you not thrown that piece of garbage in my face.

@ Megan: that rant was not directed at you at all. In fact, I can appreciate that you point that out to me. I can also see where that comes from, testing faith and whatnot, but honestly, I don't think it should matter. Scripture also says that any wrongdoing is a sin. Fair enough. And you can repent every sin to get you off the hook. Let's say you remove scripture from society: is homosexuality wrong or not? Is it wrong in nature? That's all I was trying to say, really. You have a fair point, though.


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.

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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 06:35 PM

Like I said, you cannot reason with an atheist. It's like trying to nail jelly to a wall. They tell lies about the Bible and are determined to show their contempt towards God's commandments. Do atheists love their enemies? Do atheists stand up for the rights of aborted babies? Do atheists speak against drugs and alcohol? Do atheists shun pornography?

Atheism has no morality. The only perfect morality is to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. The only true absolute morality comes from God. Atheism is opposed to God and His holy law. God and His word are perfect in every way.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 07:24 PM

If you go to hell, it's going to be an amazing party, full of gays. Lots of hot people there.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 08:44 PM

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Originally Posted by tehpervyone View Post
It's all bull.Nothing will happen to you when you die,just be a few feet into the earth that's all.

Sorry to set you off if you are a non-believer.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 08:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Composure View Post
And here I see Christian morality at its high point, and O how conservative you can be!

Firstly, you do not "reason" with an Atheist if you are as conservative as you impress on people. You do not "reason" because you have no reason. You have no rational thoughts, no sense to look outside a book written hundreds of years ago. No thought or critical thinking of your own great piece of literature. You would believe everything it tells you! I like to think magic is real, but I don't take Harry Potter as concrete. I certainly don't think that the "magic" of God (let's face it, if he can create a universe, he's either a narcissistic, bi-polar super-genius, or he's a magician) can be concretised by a fisherman or a tax collector. And if it can be, he makes for a great villain!

Oh, but where do you get your morals from? An omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent super being that has the morals of a very, very spiky fish! Oh yes, that's right, he loves everyone - except those who commit mortal sins. Oh yes, that's right, you can be forgiven for mortal sins, despite the obvious consequences implied in a "mortal sin". Let's not forget grave sins, deadly sins, serious sins, grievous sins and grave offenses! What is NOT sin?! Masturbation is a grave sin. Lying is a mortal sin! Sorcery is higher on the chain than both of them! But what is sorcery!? Something science cannot explain? Oh, God, God does a grave amount of sinning!

Morality? Pfft. How do you even survive with those morals? I would have been pushed to the brink with guilt if I were you! No, I derive my morality not by picking and choosing what sins require repentance and what does not! Masturbation? You've done it. I bet everyone above the age of 13 would have done it at least once. How many feel guilty enough to repent? A select few? Jesus, Heaven is going to get pretty lonely! No, I get my morality from something far more complex. I derive it from law, society, family, nurture. Morality from a book? You've got to be joking.

You can't reason with us because conservatism gets you nowhere, and you just make a complete fool of yourself by concretising scripture that you pick and choose from anyway! Conservatism? Try being as accepting of Atheism as I would (normally) be of Christianity, had you not thrown that piece of garbage in my face.

@ Megan: that rant was not directed at you at all. In fact, I can appreciate that you point that out to me. I can also see where that comes from, testing faith and whatnot, but honestly, I don't think it should matter. Scripture also says that any wrongdoing is a sin. Fair enough. And you can repent every sin to get you off the hook. Let's say you remove scripture from society: is homosexuality wrong or not? Is it wrong in nature? That's all I was trying to say, really. You have a fair point, though.

what, what? I think I lost you, which I did as I see you aren't a believer.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 08:48 PM

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Originally Posted by Briana View Post
If you go to hell, it's going to be an amazing party, full of gays. Lots of hot people there.

Um, hell is the place of fire, you feel the burning there and away from God forever!

Which is why I don't want to go there and which is how I was set off to have a horrible panic attack from the thoughts of hell.



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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 23rd 2012, 08:58 PM

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?" Romans 2:1-3


I could go on and on...

Be who you want to be. Believe what you want to believe. I think it's far worse to be so wrapped in the Bible that you have no free thought of right or wrong. The bible tells us not to judge others, yet it seems like the Christian faith is so quick to judge those who do not practice everything they teach. None of us are perfect. If you judge another person, you also judge yourself, just as the verses above state. If you are going to hell for supporting homosexuality, then so are all the people who judge you for it.


Also I have to say that this whole "don't try arguing with an atheist because they're ignorant" type thing is ridiculous. It's because of statements like that that Christians and atheists will never get along.

I am a Christian. I don't hate atheists. I don't think homosexuality is wrong. I actually know how to think outside of the bible. Rest assured. We do exist.

Also, don't live your life so scared of going to hell that you forget to be who you are, and forget to actually live. Yes, the afterlife is important. But not so important that you should forget about living in order to guarantee you have a pleasant death. That's just silly. Think about here and now. Don't be paralyzed by a fear of going to hell. God loves you, and nothing can change that. If you believe, you are saved. There should be no worries.





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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 24th 2012, 12:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Stephen100 View Post
Like I said, you cannot reason with an atheist. It's like trying to nail jelly to a wall. They tell lies about the Bible and are determined to show their contempt towards God's commandments. Do atheists love their enemies? Do atheists stand up for the rights of aborted babies? Do atheists speak against drugs and alcohol? Do atheists shun pornography?

Atheism has no morality. The only perfect morality is to obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. The only true absolute morality comes from God. Atheism is opposed to God and His holy law. God and His word are perfect in every way.
And like I always say, you can't reason with a super devout Christian, either. It's like talking to a brick wall. You get NOWHERE.

Here you are claiming to be this devout Christian, yet you're here bashing athiests. You're judging them and condemning them for their beliefs, which is the exact OPPOSITE of what the bible tells us to do. By bashing athiests you're only proving that you're a hypocrite.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 24th 2012, 12:11 AM

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Sorry to set you off if you are a non-believer.
I'm not a "non-believer" though I do call myself a Atheist.The fact there is no solid proof that heaven,hell,god etc is real if the problem for me.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 24th 2012, 06:34 AM

Let me clarify something before I go on: I am not against Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any denomination therein. I am, however, against the oppressive nature of devout, conservative Christians who have no will, no idea and no thought to consider the lives of those they seek to be so irrationally oppressive towards. It is people who take the stance that "anyone who is not me is not good enough," that start crusades, not the middle-ground believer. I am not quick to ridicule someone - I do not completely comprehend that which Christians, Jews and Muslims, believe and I try to understand, but when someone is so bashful as to come here and directly contradict what I set out to do, I can find a variety of ways to oppose him or her. I think now that I've made it obvious that I do not oppose the "middle-ground believer" or anyone else for that matter, I'll continue mounting my contradictions towards Stephen.

Firstly, Stephen, as I have pointed out, this is not an exercise of nailing jelly to a wall. It is erroneous to consider it as such. There is an error of judgement throughout what you have last said: we will not change. Here, you have stereotyped, jumbled us up with the likes of Richard Dawkins and other renowned Atheists, and have got that completely wrong. We can change, and that is the point of my previous post. We are not conservative (generally, anyway), and are highly progressive. We do not have scripture to hold us back insofar as it destroys the idea of individual choice. No, we base everything we are, not on a book written by a fisherman, a tax man, a physician and a guy who appears to have no occupation at all, but on society, on law, on anthropology, on facts and plausible theories - on everything other than a book! *And that makes us progressive, not conservative. We are willing to adapt to change; to survive by evaluating; to grant our minds and our bodies comprehension of reality. We do not fade into the shadows of a book and become its advocate - we have no shared morals that bind us together; we are free, individual egos. That is where you were erroneous: dumping us together like a pack of wolves led by Dworkin, Dawkins, Hitchens and the like! We do not share their morality - we make our own! So, if I were you, I wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun, and I would pipe down there.

Secondly, the shared morality of Atheists, as you have alluded to, is not shared, as I have previously mentioned. Are all Atheists for abortion? No. Do all Atheists hate their enemies? No. Do all Atheists drink alcohol and snort cocaine? No. Do*all Atheists share a love for pornography? No. Obviously, you've got a few things wrong here: not ALL Atheists do the things you seek to shun, and not all endorse it. In fact, the only thing Atheists share in common is a lack of religion! We share nothing else in common throughout the whole belief system. Some of us may drink, smoke, abort our children, watch pornography and hate thy enemy, but not all of us do. Indeed, this is the beauty of Atheism! We are individuals! And you are just another devout, conservative Christian out to deprive us of the freedom to be individuals!

Thirdly, the "gospel of Jesus Christ" is not all it's cracked up to be. To be "perfect", there must be nothing wrong (that's a very conservative definition - I could take on a very formalistic definition, but that would not give Stephen any room to argue). Does the Bible contradict itself? Does the Bible contradict fact, science and individual belief? Does it contradict freedoms associated with society? Does it claim to be law? IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT? Of course - I'm sure even "middle-ground believers" will concur - there is so much wrong, that it is so far from perfect that I can almost consider myself perfect!

So, Stephen, don't be such a shortsighted dwarf. You do not suddenly have to drop religion to do so, but at least concede that our system of beliefs in a higher power (i.e. none) is just as valid as yours! If you do not, you will get nowhere with an Atheist, and they will just end up flaming you. You cannot convince an Atheist when you act as far from diplomatic as you do. Take some diplomacy and employ it throughout your life. It'll do you good.


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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 24th 2012, 12:28 PM

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Originally Posted by MadPoet View Post
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?" Romans 2:1-3


I could go on and on...

Be who you want to be. Believe what you want to believe. I think it's far worse to be so wrapped in the Bible that you have no free thought of right or wrong. The bible tells us not to judge others, yet it seems like the Christian faith is so quick to judge those who do not practice everything they teach. None of us are perfect. If you judge another person, you also judge yourself, just as the verses above state. If you are going to hell for supporting homosexuality, then so are all the people who judge you for it.


Also I have to say that this whole "don't try arguing with an atheist because they're ignorant" type thing is ridiculous. It's because of statements like that that Christians and atheists will never get along.

I am a Christian. I don't hate atheists. I don't think homosexuality is wrong. I actually know how to think outside of the bible. Rest assured. We do exist.

Also, don't live your life so scared of going to hell that you forget to be who you are, and forget to actually live. Yes, the afterlife is important. But not so important that you should forget about living in order to guarantee you have a pleasant death. That's just silly. Think about here and now. Don't be paralyzed by a fear of going to hell. God loves you, and nothing can change that. If you believe, you are saved. There should be no worries.
This is a response only to the verses that you posted. The second one from Matthew especially. It doesn't say not to correct people's wrongs...it says to fix your own wrongs first so you aren't a hypocrite. It doesn't say not to take the speck out of your brother's eye; it says to take the log out of your OWN eye first, and THEN take the speck out of your brother's eye. So us telling people that their acts are sinful isn't wrong as long as we aren't committing the same acts. In my case, I am not performing any homosexual acts, so I am free to (gently) correct those who are. Now, this doesn't mean standing outside their houses with picket signs and shunning them...it means starting loving conversations and sin and being saved.
   
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Re: Same-sex marriage will I go to hell? - May 24th 2012, 12:32 PM

That eas supposed to say ABOUT* sin and being saved. It won't let me edit.
   
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