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View Poll Results: Is Jesus a communist?
Yes (please explain below) 7 53.85%
No (please explain below) 5 38.46%
Im not sure (please explain below) 0 0%
Other (please explain below) 1 7.69%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Question Jesus a communist?? - May 17th 2012, 11:28 PM

I am Catholic and go to Catholic high school. In religion class my teacher said that if Jesus was a live today he would be a communist. I highly disagree and find the idea terrible. Communism has hurt/killed/deprived so many people. I don't understand how she could think he was a communist. She and I and two of my friends who agree with me got into a loud heated argument during class. I don't agree with anything she teaches. Im not even sure if what she teaches is right. She tries to force her opinion down your throat. The name of the religion class is "peace and justice" it is neither peaceful or just. It's very frustrating because she just says to all this stuff that's soooo socialistic. It makes me angry cuz I think that Jesus would think people should do good on their own not because the government forced them to (like she wants). Any Oppinions on this? Does anybody understand where she is coming from?
   
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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 12:59 AM

I don't believe in Jesus but here's my interpretation of her comment.
In theory communism is brilliant. Everybody is treated equally, people earn the same ammount of money, drive the same cars, live in the same type of houses etc. But after a while the communist leaders get so mad with thier power that they just take over everything, and communism turns into a terrible thing. To make communism work, they need the right leader.
So I think what she means is that if Jesus was alive, he would give everybody the same things. Everybody would be earning equal wages and no one would be "above" the law, because everybody is under it.

She probably didn't mean that he would get overrun with power and kill everybody, just that he would make sure everybody got an equal turn at life.


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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 01:26 AM

Exactly. Ellie took the words right out of my mouth.


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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 06:13 AM

First of all one can't really equate communism to a religious doctrine. Communism is based on pure economics and resource distribution, not religious teachings. Two different playing fields entirely.

I can see the merits of both, but for the purposes here I voted no.

As far as I can tell, Jesus did not have a problem with people being wealthy. He did not deem someone wicked because they had wealth. He deemed them wicked if they cared only for worldly things and did not share their bounty with the poor and the sick.

Now, there's a difference there. It's one thing to teach that the rich need to give it all up .It's another to let them have their wealth, but appropriate it to share a good amount of it with the people because that is what christian charity is about. He didn't get mad at anyone for having more. He got mad at them for not sharing it with the people. That's different than saying everyone should be the exact same and have the exact same. It's teaching a group of people to their fellow brothers and sisters in a way others can't necessarily.

Basically it's what they are trying to do now: levy heavier taxes on the rich to help spare everyone else from going dead broke. That doesn't take away the rich people's wealth, but it sees that they pay their fair share on it, too.

Granted I am rusty on the Bible, but this is what I remember, if I am correct.



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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 06:27 AM

No country has EVER actually been a communist country. Sure, they've called themselves "communist", but they don't truly follow marxist theories and are therefore NOT communist countries. In principle it's a really great idea. So I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus fit into the THEORY of communism, but I don't see him as a dictator in a "communist" country.


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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 08:32 AM

I think this comes from acts where it says they shared everything and no one counted anything as their own. Its often used as proof the early christians practiced a form of communism.


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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loving Linux Penguin View Post
No country has EVER actually been a communist country. Sure, they've called themselves "communist", but they don't truly follow marxist theories and are therefore NOT communist countries. In principle it's a really great idea. So I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus fit into the THEORY of communism, but I don't see him as a dictator in a "communist" country.
First, just because a state isn't Marxist doesn't mean that it isn't communist. Communist thought has diverged and evolved since 1848 into schools such as Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism. There are obvious differences between those and Marxism (for example, Maoism focuses on the rural peasantry rather than the industrial proletariat as the revolutionary class), but they're still communist theories. To draw an analogy, just because Black Sabbath were the first metal band doesn't mean that Iron Maiden aren't also a metal band.

Second, I'm assuming you haven't read much Marx, because he was actually pretty statist. While the ultimate aim was a classless society, the path to that classless society lay through the centralisation and nationalisation of all banking, abolition of the right of inheritance, forced internal migration, and an extension of state-owned industry. While the ends were utopian, the means were draconian. So, while no communist country has ever made it to the classless stage, they've actually implemented some form of Marx's intermediate state quite closely (although with revisions as discussed above). And while Marx's theory of history meant that a proletarian revolution would be inevitable, the falsification of many of his predictions (the permanently worsening condition of the working class, for example) would seem to demonstrate otherwise. More practical communists like Lenin believed in a revolutionary vanguard party that would lead the people in a revolution tailored to the circumstances within the country: in Russia, that meant alliances with rural peasants, and the removal of democratic rights from members of capitalist classes.

As to the question of whether Jesus was a communist or not, he wouldn't be anything recognised as a communist today. Jesus did not preach or predict a revolution against the state, calling on his followers to "render under Caesar what belongs to Caesar". He formulated no theories of class. While he preached that his followers should give away their possessions to the poor, this was more of an ascetic idea than a communist one. While his teachings may resemble a superficial caricature of communism, of the kind believed in by those who have no understanding of communism's theory or practice, Jesus was a religious thinker rather than a political one.



   
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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 18th 2012, 07:45 PM

Jesus would not be a communist. Christ did teach various things that would be similar to communism, i.e. sharing what you have, giving to the poor, etc. The problem is that communism is forced. Christ urged people to sell what they have and give to the poor. He showed away that was radical, and yes, similar to socialism. However, there is a stark difference. Christ URGED people to do these things out of LOVE. It was not forced.

If Christ was a communist, He would be forcing people to be hypocrites. Something He was actively against. In fact, He says that the governments would take money from the people and call themselves benefactors (friends of the people -- i.e. providing for the poor), however, He said we are to NOT be like this.

He says, instead, the rich, the people in charge, are to become servants and to be like children. He says nothing of the government causing this to happen, rather for them to cause it to happen.

Yes, in Acts, there is a lot of similarities to communes and the early Church. The difference is, they did this out of love, not out of a legality.

Christ, if anything, in my mind, is a libertarian, if not an outright anarchist. The only authority is G-D. I would get into the "give to Caesar what is Caesars," and Romans 10, but that is a different subject. The early Church were considered anarchists and atheists to the Roman Empire. They thought they were incestuous because they loved each other deeply, and called each other brother and sister. So, yes, they were radically socialist. But they were out of love. To force someone to become and equal is to clean the outside of the plate, before cleaning the inside. It looks nice and pretty on the outside, but the inside of the peoples heart are full of dirt.

Christ would be against communism. But for the freedom of giving in love. So, the coming Kingdom will probably look similar to communism. But it will look so because of love. Not because of hypocrisy, and no one will be power hungry. And we will be equals with even Christ, provided we suffer in this life.

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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 19th 2012, 04:55 PM

I would look up the fundamentals of communism. Really just because it's screwed in practice, in theory it would work with a "perfect" figure such as Jesus at the top of the pile as he would be fully ready to give everyone what they equally needed. There's no evidence that says he was a communist (communism wasn't invented until much, much after his death.) however his teachings may have very easily been the foundation for Marx's theories. Equality, no division between rich and poor, and mutal respect no matter social class.

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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 19th 2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SM13 View Post
I am Catholic and go to Catholic high school. In religion class my teacher said that if Jesus was a live today he would be a communist. I highly disagree and find the idea terrible. Communism has hurt/killed/deprived so many people. I don't understand how she could think he was a communist. She and I and two of my friends who agree with me got into a loud heated argument during class. I don't agree with anything she teaches. Im not even sure if what she teaches is right. She tries to force her opinion down your throat. The name of the religion class is "peace and justice" it is neither peaceful or just. It's very frustrating because she just says to all this stuff that's soooo socialistic. It makes me angry cuz I think that Jesus would think people should do good on their own not because the government forced them to (like she wants). Any Oppinions on this? Does anybody understand where she is coming from?
Well, you attend a Catholic high school. You're looking in the wrong places for unbiased teachings.


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Re: Jesus a communist?? - May 20th 2012, 04:38 AM

Toz: Reconized for the truth.

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