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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Apple. - June 5th 2012, 11:01 AM

I'm not saying Apple is taking over the world.

But have you noticed in Western society we tend to give our lives to some sort of "iGod"?

I mean ever since I first learned about the first iPod (about 6 months after the rest of the world, because I live in NZ), I've wanted to own something with that funky little Apple inc symbol on it. And I know I'm not alone.
And every year, a new i-Something comes out. There's all sorts of things, probably even if you just google "i" about 10 products would show up.

And people willingly buy this stuff, because it's cool, but the fact is, waaaaay too many reacted way too strongly when Steve Jobs died.

And then there's the fact that people have often said that the fruit of good and evil or whatever it was, was an apple. I personally disagree because I think apples taste yuck so why would anybody want to eat them, but that's one of the theories.

Which means either Apple inc is the apotheosis of all evil, or using apple products gives you the knowledge of good and evil. Making it the fruit. Which we weren't supposed to eat.

I think it is, you know.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 11:10 AM

SKYNET!

Just sayin'.

(now we sit and wait for the conspiracy theories)


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 11:17 AM

Omg, completely forgot about SkyNet.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 12:39 PM

I refuse to buy anything Apple. There are better music players, and phones anyway. I'm not going to support their business practices.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 12:48 PM

Apple is just doing business in the perfect sense. I have an IPOD, but they are like a completely differnet market to me, as in the OS, hardware etc. And that it is generally completely different and incompatible with other formats.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 06:28 PM

They make one hell of a fine product. This Macbook Pro I'm using is fantastic. The iPhone changed the face of the cell phone market, and the iPod and iPad did the same to their respective industries.


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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 06:33 PM

It's because people don't realise that apple products are a waste of money...
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 06:52 PM

They're just a really good company that has got its marketing perfect.


Hey, guess why i smile a lot... because it's worth it

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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 08:46 PM

I find this pretty funny, the idea of these products being "iGod". People like what works, what is portable, and what is "in" (which is what is portable and sleek and works). The idea of Apple was probably not to become a gigantic corporation, but to produce things that work and can make life easier for people at an "affordable" price.

There is no reason to go over the moon about a new Apple product, I mean... Once I get what I wanted and a new version comes out, I'm not bothered. If what I have now works why do I need the newer version?- but at the same time you kind of need to make new products to keep fresh and to advance in technology.

@ Boobies, they aren't a waste of money, sure they can be if your a stupid with them. But if you take care of them they are alright and worth your money.


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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by George^^ View Post
@ Boobies, they aren't a waste of money, sure they can be if your a stupid with them. But if you take care of them they are alright and worth your money.
How is spending twice as much money than you need to on a computer not a waste of money?
   
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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:
How is spending twice as much money than you need to on a computer not a waste of money?
Okay, I have to say that that's pretty wrong. As a new owner of an Mac Book Pro, I know that my computer was worth every single penny. Why? It has good security, it has everything I wanted, it's portable, it's sleek and it's good looking. And it's probably not going to be the piece of shit that my last laptop was (which wasn't an Apple product. It was not that old, but broke and had to have money spent on it that it wasn't worth to try to get it to work.) - Yes, maybe my laptop was more money than the laptops that I had seen before getting mine, but I do and always will consider it worth it.


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Re: Apple. - June 5th 2012, 10:01 PM

I don't use apple products, nike products, or go to Wal-Mart.
http://thejcrevelator2.hubpages.com/...iorinFactories

I also don't want a Macbook. If I want a great laptop, I'll get one with the specs I want, and dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 7. Many of the open-source programs that you can use on linux operating systems are just as good, or better than Mac OS counterparts. Even when the open source alternatives aren't there, you can still purchase other software that will get the job done.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 02:39 AM

OP: iGod? Lulz.

It's called brand power. By putting a reconizable brand name, especially tied to a high quality of product people will subconciously enjoy the product more.

For example, even though two organge juices have the same ingredients, people usually claim the brand name tastes better than the store brand. This is simply because once we associate high-quality with a brand, we become blind to actual quality.

Apple products are sleek, stylish, and ridiculously easy to use. Their simple interface and good components make them popular.

"And every year, a new i-Something comes out."

And every year car companies release a new model of their best sellers. For example the Hyundai Tuscons are popular, and they have models for 2008, 2009, 2010, and so on.

"There's all sorts of things, probably even if you just google "i" about 10 products would show up."

"Probably even" isn't a valid argument. A simple google search shows your point made no sense.

"but the fact is, waaaaay too many reacted way too strongly when Steve Jobs died."

Because he was potentially one of the greatest inventors and creative minds of our time, creating many new gadgets that help us connect with people and other devices, taking us one step closer to the vision of a wireless interconnected world. People reacted strongly when Thomas Edison died, and when Graham Bell died, for good reason.

Regarding the last three lines, lolwut? Some people believe that it was an Apple, but some people also believe the world is flat, and that Bigfoot exists. "Some people" is never a good demographic to use in making any point. Better yet, why would your opinion on the taste of an apple affect the theory? Under this theory, Apple pie is the devil's desert, and anyone who grows Apples for a living is the Devil's minion. And people who make green-apple candies are Satan's best pals. I'm not sure if you're joking or not.

MindBodySpirit: Hipster. It's true that in some ways Windows is better than Mac, however each company has their own "gimmick" and their own pros and cons. I personally like Windows better, as it suits what I use it for, which is mostly gaming and connecting with a variety of programs. However for people into serious music/video editing or looking for a powerful and easy to use interface, Mac is probably better.

Boobies: See above reasons. Sure they're expensive however they do serve an amazing amount of purposes better than Windows.

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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 03:24 AM

Okay, okay, I understand that everyone wants to talk about brand power and technology and whatnot, but I have to put in something: I don't think the OP was trying to start a debate about how good Apple products are (if he had, it wouldn't be in the philosophy subforum). I believe, as a matter of course, that the OP was referring to the euphamism of the brand name: "Apple" = forbidden fruit. Just sayin'.


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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 03:39 AM

Composure: And yet that makes no sense whatsoever. No more than "Apple Pie" is a euphamism for "The desert we eat in hell."

- Justin



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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post

MindBodySpirit: Hipster. It's true that in some ways Windows is better than Mac, however each company has their own "gimmick" and their own pros and cons. I personally like Windows better, as it suits what I use it for, which is mostly gaming and connecting with a variety of programs. However for people into serious music/video editing or looking for a powerful and easy to use interface, Mac is probably better.
I actually agree with you completely. Mac is currently the best for video editing. All I was saying is that I can get everything I want from a ubuntu/windows dual boot. I can get the easy to use interface from ubuntu. I can do my music editing in ubuntu as well. I just don't want to support apple's business practices. It's pretty bad when factories have to install nets so that people won't commit suicide.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-iPads.html

Hopefully when some video-editing software gets out of the production stages for linux users, people will decide to make the switch. Not
   
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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Composure: And yet that makes no sense whatsoever. No more than "Apple Pie" is a euphamism for "The desert we eat in hell."

- Justin
Ah yes, but we don't eat "deserts". Just pointing that out; no malice intended.

Draw whatever inference you wish, but "apple pie" is certainly not a part of the story of Adam and Eve.


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 03:36 PM

I just want to point out since this always bugs me, for all we know Eve ate a watermelon in the Garden of Eden. Apples aren't mentioned, it says she ate 'fruit' from the forbidden tree, said fruit was never specified.


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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 04:06 PM

I find Apple is nothing more than a company with incredibly good marketing. They release their products at just the right time. I don't remember what it was, but Microsoft or somebody released a tablet ages ago. It was crap. Apple then worked on the tablet and released their own ipad, which had much better technology. They get their marketing and advertising spot on.

I only own an ipod, and it's the first apple product I've ever owned. I don't feel the need to buy more apple products. I'm happy with my HP laptop and my samsung phone. To be honest, I like Samsung more than apple. But it's just a company. Nothing more.


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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 04:35 PM

Composure: Tucking Fypos.

Anyhow, no apple pie wasn't mentioned. However neither were apples. If you're making the connection between the devil and apples, why shouldn't he love apple pie.

- Justin



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Re: Apple. - June 6th 2012, 09:17 PM

Good thread, would read again


Self pity will not rescue you.
Sometimes we have to save our own lives,
not because no one else cares, but because no one else can.

Life for you has been less than kind
So take a number, stand in line
We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
But how we survive is what makes us who we are.

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We invent paths they cannot see, and they're too scared to walk


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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Composure: Tucking Fypos.

Anyhow, no apple pie wasn't mentioned. However neither were apples. If you're making the connection between the devil and apples, why shouldn't he love apple pie.

- Justin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 3:6-7 NIV
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
Apple pies do not grow on trees.

EDIT: Obviously, it's not alluding to apple pies. I'm sure you can make an inference, based on your knowledge.

You and I both know it's not meant to be taken literally. It's all metaphorical/metaphysical philosophy (as in Llewellyn's theory of the People in the Original Position), but you catch where I made the inference between Apple Inc. and the forbidden fruit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymnophoria View Post
I just want to point out since this always bugs me, for all we know Eve ate a watermelon in the Garden of Eden. Apples aren't mentioned, it says she ate 'fruit' from the forbidden tree, said fruit was never specified.
I'll probably just be reiterating what I've already said, but I understand that the fruit was not specified. I also understand that it is wrong to draw a conclusion based on an inference, but I was merely indicating that culture at around the time of the establishment of Apple Inc, the common perception of the "forbidden fruit" was that it was a fruit grown on a tree, and though it could have been a lemon or a lime or whatever, it was not meant to be sour - it was meant to be tantalizing insofar as to allow Adam and Eve to finally remove themselves from blissful ignorance. It was meant to be a metaphor for desire or lust, and what is the most desirable fruit that grows on a tree? An apple or a lemon? I mean, it could've also been a fig, but who wants to eat a fig? Does it look desireable to you?

Further, my initial line of "Apple = forbidden fruit" was meant to be that Apple, as in Apple Inc, was the "fruit" that opened your eyes, so to speak, from the blissful ignorance that surrounds the world. Not as an object of evil.
Let me restate: I don't take the book of Genesis literally.


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.

Last edited by Age of Ignorance; June 7th 2012 at 01:38 PM.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 03:48 PM

And yet "Apple Inc." was never mentioned in the story you made that connection based on your personal belief the fruit was an apple.

The only conection between the devil and Apple Inc. is the fact that you assume the forbidden fruit was an apple. However as I pointed out, apples are related to several things, including apple pies.

I made a silly point to show how ridiculous the conection was as the same point could be made for literally thousands of different things related to apples.

I mean, let's put this theory into a flowchart: Forbidden fruit which may or may not be metaphorical > Might have been an apple, or might have been literally any other fruit > A company in 2012, a random year in human history happens to name their company Apple > the only logical conclusion is that they are the devil > ??? > iGod.

It's a lot of looking for patterns in clouds. There's only something there if you try hard enough.

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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
I mean, let's put this theory into a flowchart: Forbidden fruit which may or may not be metaphorical > Might have been an apple, or might have been literally any other fruit > A company in 2012, a random year in human history happens to name their company Apple > the only logical conclusion is that they are the devil > ??? > iGod.

It's a lot of looking for patterns in clouds. There's only something there if you try hard enough.

- Justin
The bolded part makes you sound ridiculous. I never made any indication that Apple Inc were the devil, nor did I make reference to an "iGod". That was not my handywork, I hope you know. The OP was the one to do that, I was merely giving my opinion as to the only conceivable way that could have been drawn. It isn't necessary to nitpick; the presumption that the forbidden fruit was an apple was drawn from a process of elimination (and mainly because it was conceived, over many years of translations by the Northern Europeans that the fruit could have been an apple), but is by no means a logical presumption. In fact, it's not entirely derived from anything concrete at all. I was making a hypothesis without any solid empirical evidence (which might make me hugely wrong, but I was just trying to defend the side of this debate that no one seems to have gotten into).


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 09:56 PM

I agree with Michael, Apple products (along with many other branded items) are made in Sweatshops in China, by Kids who get 10p a day for working non stop for hours on end.
   
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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 11:15 PM

Composure: No, I wasn't attacking you and I realize you didn't necessarily agree with the values of the the OP, and that you were simply trying to defend another point of view, no problem. I was simply pointing out how insane their theory sounds when put plainly. My intention was to sound ridiculous to prove a point.

The Goblins Blade: Source?

Even if true, without sweatshops the alternative is starvation. We could argue to get them a fair wage, however they would then need to cut employees and request even more work from the children in the alleged sweatshops. Moral clusterfuck.

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Re: Apple. - June 7th 2012, 11:57 PM

Why the hell is this thread even going this long?

First off, if I recall correctly, the biblical fruit was a pomegranate. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Secondly, Steve Jobs named the company Apple because he came in one day and told PR that if they didn't have a good name by the end of that day, it would be known as Apple. Hence, Apple.
*doink*


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Re: Apple. - June 8th 2012, 08:19 AM

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First off, if I recall correctly, the biblical fruit was a pomegranate. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
Isn't that from a Greek myth?
   
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Re: Apple. - June 8th 2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobies View Post


Isn't that from a Greek myth?
Yep - Persephone and Hades, to be exact. To the best of my knowledge, the fruit in Genesis is indeed unidentified. The depiction of it as an apple is regarded as either being a pun on the Latin words for apple and evil (malum and mālum, respectively) or just artistic licence. (Source)

Anyway, steering away from the merits or otherwise of Apple products (personally I think they're much overrated for what they actually do, but that's just my opinion), this does remind me of one of Voltaire's quotes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltaire(naturally)
Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer. (If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.)
Perhaps the response to Apple as a brand, and all the hoopla surrounding it, is proving Voltaire had a point. Or maybe as a species we're just suckers for a slick marketing campaign. Who's to say?


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Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! View Post
If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Apple. - June 8th 2012, 09:19 PM

I'm going to refer to the original post because I lost track about half way down of the running conversation...?

I am what popular culture often refers to as an iWhore/iSlut or similar. I'm aware that and I'm making no moves to change it.

I love my iPod, literally I don't know where I would be without it. Similarly I adore my iPhone and my MacBook Pro, yeah none of these things are the cheapest models on the market but the extra money is definitely worth it. Not only are all of these bits of kit amazing in their own right (ESPECIALLY my macbook!) the thing that really sells apple products to me is the way they work together. I honestly think the Cloud is one of the best inventions, if I take a photo on my phone it is automatically on my mac waiting for me, if I add contacts etc. its the same thing. A few months ago I dropped my iPhone out of a plane (I'm a skydiver - occupational hazard!) and luckily all my photos and contacts were backed up on my mac so I didn't have to have the stressful and tearful moment where I've lost my whole world (I'm exaggerating for those who didn't realise!).

For me this is what sets apple products apart - HOWEVER, I love these things because they make my life easier, but I could just as well live without all of them. I'm lucky to have them and I appreciate them but I wouldn't compare them to family/friends/God/etc. Does that make sense?


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