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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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"Studies Show...." - October 21st 2015, 11:45 AM

Science and I have not managed to get along. I want to like science, but one of the fundamental frustrations I have had with science as an industry, is that science somehow believes that it is seeking the Truth. However, there are always two versions of the truth. I still do not know how that is possible, but it is. I have always been told that I need to back up my arguments with scientific evidence, and while I admit, I am lazy in that regard, it frustrates me because I don't see the need to do that. This is because there are probably approved scientific studies and scientists that agree with me, because while declarations are made that "your opinion is worthless if it disagrees with the science", science disagrees with itself.

How can different studies of the same industry have different results? And (why) do you believe that science is the only credible way of reaching a conclusion?


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Re: "Studies Show...." - October 21st 2015, 06:30 PM

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Originally Posted by RadioSerenade View Post
Science and I have not managed to get along. I want to like science, but one of the fundamental frustrations I have had with science as an industry, is that science somehow believes that it is seeking the Truth. However, there are always two versions of the truth. I still do not know how that is possible, but it is. I have always been told that I need to back up my arguments with scientific evidence, and while I admit, I am lazy in that regard, it frustrates me because I don't see the need to do that. This is because there are probably approved scientific studies and scientists that agree with me, because while declarations are made that "your opinion is worthless if it disagrees with the science", science disagrees with itself.

How can different studies of the same industry have different results? And (why) do you believe that science is the only credible way of reaching a conclusion?
Hey there. Well, to me it seems that this frustration is really a result of the semantics and details.

Science doesn't ever disagree with itself, and if it ever does, it evolves and changes to become more accurate. It is by no means infallible, but it is our best method of discovering knowledge of our world and how it operates. Look around you. Everything that has been created by humans is a result of scientific discoveries and inventions. Your computer, keyboard, mouse, is a result of engineers. The desk it sits on can hold it because of the physics behind it. The food and medicine you take is a result of chemistry. etc.

The problem is data. Data is ambiguous and can be difficult to interpret. This is why, for example, there are climate change deniers. You have untrained people trying to interpret ambiguous data without underlying concepts needed to understand the big picture. The reality is, however, while SOME data may contradict our findings, we need to consider that MAYBE the data doesn't agree because there was an error in the report, and an exception to the rule.

Let me give you a simple example. Gravity. For simplification, we're only going to assume gravity relative to Earth, not in space, etc.

Gravity is a theory which states there is a force that attracts a body of mass towards the center of the Earth. Okay, well, lets say you now see data in which there is a body which has mass, but at a specific instance in time that body was not affected by gravity. In other words, someone on Earth, at a particular moment was not being pulled to center of the Earth.

The question then becomes is gravity irrelevant? Your data says it is. But, clearly, we know, that isn't true. So the question is now, WHAT EXCEPTION is there? Well, if you're familiar with kinematics, whenever someone JUMPS when they are at the PEAK of their jump, they have 0 velocity. That is, they are no longer going up, and no longer going down. They are suspended. How? Because they exerted a force in the opposite direction of gravity, but that force wore out at a specific instant in time, rendering it as if gravity doesn't exist. But it does, as eventually they will start descending.

So you see, interpreting data can be ambiguous. This is why when you claim something, you cannot just claim it. Why? Because based on this data, I can claim that gravity does not exist, and therefore say that we need a new theory. Thus your data must be supported by a group of scientist, and the conditions and studies must be EXACTLY the same in each study, and it MUST produce the same results EVERY time.

This means our collection of science today is the result of a series of collections of data which best represents the world as we know it. Will it change in the future? It's likely. But as of now, it is our best understanding of how the world operates, and stating something contrary to it without ample evidence, studies, and tests done is really nonsensical. You need the data to back it up. And more data than just your data alone, and not just your interpretation alone.

Science is there to challenge your ideas. It is there to show you're wrong. It isn't there to PROVE anything. It is there to DISPROVE EVERYTHING, and THEREBY by a product of elimination, discover truth. This is a HUGE difference between religion and science. Religion wants to say, "This is true because of this that and the other. Don't question it." Whereas science WANTS you to question it, and follow the evidence of the answers to wherever it leads. The very fact your questioning it makes you somewhat of a scientist.

So, the challenge I present to you is what are you going to disprove, and how?


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