Homosexuality and the Bible

[LucyLouWho]

ATTENTION READERS: I'm not looking for your opinions on the topic of homosexuality. Rather, I'm looking for some individual interpretations of what you think that the Bible means to say about homosexuality.

Since we're talking about the Bible, then this thread will mainly be coming from the Christian's point of view, no matter what denomination.

Feel free to cite any specific scriptures or verses that may relate to this in order to back up any points you make.

I'd like to see the different views on what the text means to everyone. Surely there are LGBT Christians as well?

DISCLAIMER: I am not, in the least bit, against homosexuality and I don't intend for this thread to turn into a bash-fest. So, please, let's keep this civil.

[Mythic]

The most well-known mention of homosexuality in Biblical terms is in Leviticus. The wording varies based on which edition of the Bible is used, but it's generally to the effect of, "A man shall not lay with a man as he would lay with a woman; this is an abomination."

While this seems pretty straightforward, I find it interesting that there are no verses specifically forbidding sexual contact or relations between two women. Furthermore, it could be argued that this is at least partially invalid anyway, because when Jesus does his teachings, he says that they are a recreation of old Jewish law, and he makes no mention of homosexuality.

These are the Biblical facts as far as I know. I've kept my actual opinions out of it.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

From what I've gathered from talking and debating with others, is the bible doesn't forbid the sexual orientation of homosexuality any different than how it forbids the sexual orientation of heterosexuality. By this, I'm referring to the idea of lusting over someone. Homosexual sexual intercourse is forbidden in the bible quite clearly and this is where you get things like..

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

Many of the debates I've read or been part of consist of the above passage or similar ones, all of which forbid the sexual intercourse of homosexuality. That argument fails because the homosexual sexual orientation consists of more than purely having sex. The other argument is mentioned above, of lust, which applies to all sexual orientations not just to homosexuality.

However, it is interesting to look at the historical versions both of the Ancient Hebrew and Greek bibles of Paul. In Hebrew, qadesh is a male prostitute engaging in ritual sex but was mistranslated into "homosexual" while to'ebah is a foreign Pagan cult practice, mistranslated to "abomination". http://www.worldpolicy.newschool.edu...bible-gay.html

In the Greek bibles of Paul, he uses a word "arsenokoitai", which sometimes is accepted as meaning "homosexual" but most sites I've looked at have said translating it to mean homosexual is not accurate. In the King James Version, it got translated to "abusers of themselves with mankind". http://www.religioustolerance.org/homarsen.htm

This other site goes into more detail explaining how "arsenokoites" or "arsenokoitai" (not sure which spelling is correct) doesn't mean homosexual as it was used only ~ 22% of the time in such a context. The remaining ~78% it was used for something else so it's wrong to say it means homosexual, however, the biblical translations ignored this inaccuracy. My reasoning on this is there were political pressures to have it translated into that since homosexuality wasn't approved of at that time, so they wanted to make it known the bible forbids homosexuality. http://www.gaychristian101.com/Arsenokoites.html

So the point is, asking what the bible says about homosexuality is a bit of an unsteady question because it depends how much of the historical contexts you want to ignore. If you don't want to ignore them, then the debate craps on itself and it's done, with the only possibility being a debate against these Greek and Hebrew words. If you do want to ignore it, then lust is the main thing that's forbidden but that's not exclusive to only homosexuality.

[John 6:29]

Romans 1, 2, 3.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

Romans 1, 2, 3.

Romans 1-3 touches on a wide range of topics, would you mind being less vague and ambiguous by actually giving an interpretation or argument instead of mentioning a few chapters? Romans 1:32 states homosexuals deserve to be killed, so I assume you accept that, you accept Romans 1:26-27 which states women should be used as sex toys and god made people homosexual intentionally. I see how circumcision (or lack thereof) fits into all this somehow as a penalty.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart!

Romans 1-3 touches on a wide range of topics, would you mind being less vague and ambiguous by actually giving an interpretation or argument instead of mentioning a few chapters? Romans 1:32 states homosexuals deserve to be killed, so I assume you accept that, you accept Romans 1:26-27 which states women should be used as sex toys and god made people homosexual intentionally. I see how circumcision (or lack thereof) fits into all this somehow as a penalty.

I also believe Romans 2... that I practice the same things and am guilty of the same condemnation. Which leads to chapter 3, that all are sinners deserving of condemnation and that none of us seek God but are all corrupt and approve of the corruption.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

I also believe Romans 2... that I practice the same things and am guilty of the same condemnation. Which leads to chapter 3, that all are sinners deserving of condemnation and that none of us seek God but are all corrupt and approve of the corruption.

... How does that relate to homosexuality because what you're describing applies to everyone, or at least everyone not obeying god.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart!

... How does that relate to homosexuality because what you're describing applies to everyone, or at least everyone not obeying god.

You've said it yourself. It relates because of Romans 1, which condemns that practice among others.

[lilmissdontwannabehere]

I personally feel like we should love the people as our siblings anyways. And to people who believe its a sin to be gay the bible says to love the person hate the sing. that means treating them with the respect everybody deserves

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by lilmissdontwannabehere

I personally feel like we should love the people as our siblings anyways. And to people who believe its a sin to be gay the bible says to love the person hate the sing. that means treating them with the respect everybody deserves

The Bible doesn't say that, but I agree with what you're saying.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

I also believe Romans 2... that I practice the same things and am guilty of the same condemnation. Which leads to chapter 3, that all are sinners deserving of condemnation and that none of us seek God but are all corrupt and approve of the corruption.

These two chapters are discussing things that apply to ideas not only restricted to homosexuality.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart!

These two chapters are discussing things that apply to ideas not only restricted to homosexuality.

But inclusive of homosexuality, which is what the topic is referencing. Whatever else it addresses is of no concern for this particular thread, but homosexually is being addressed as well as other ideas in those two chapters. It'd be like bringing a coupon to a store that is for a specific brand of product. Who cares what item of the product you have is as long as it is inclusive in the coupon.