LaVey and Magic ? Angels?

[The Devil's Advocate ??]

So I received a few of anton's works the other day (the satanic bible, satanic witch, and devils notebook), and I was skimming through the satanic bible and I saw he had the Enochian keys in it...I may be misinformed, but I always assumed Enochian magic, or at least the way crowley made it out to be (once again, please correct me if I'm wrong) was magic concerning angels? I was always under the impression LaVey didn't believe in a god or anything of the sort...so whats with the angel magic if he doesn't believe in angels ? Can someone please clear my misunderstandings ?

[Sythan]

Enochian is the language of Angels AND Demons. They both understand Enochian, thougn LaVey did not believe in a God or a Supreme Being, he most certainly understood that there were things out there beyond our comprehension.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

It's a bit confusing because LaVey was a theistic Satanist and openly admitted it, however, his Satanic Bible and subsequently LaVeyan Satanism is atheistic. I don't understand why he designed it so it was atheistic when he was indeed theistic, however, Diane Vera (leading the Church of Azazel in New York City) mentions there are some Satanists who give LaVeyan Satanism a theistic interpretation while maintaining it's a type of Symbolic Satanism. The Enochian keys were initially said to be revealed in the 16th century by angels, however, "angels" do not exclude demons or "cacodemons", as several angels are cacodemons. In the Satanic Bible, LaVey took 19 of these Enochian keys, most if not all of them I believe were "cacodemons" and strung them together to make some of the rituals and magick.

[The Devil's Advocate ??]

Thank you both so much I wa so confused on whether he was being literal and whatnot lol so he reallydid believe in spirits and demons lol ? This guy is one confusing man lol

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by The Devil's Advocate ??

Thank you both so much I wa so confused on whether he was being literal and whatnot lol so he reallydid believe in spirits and demons lol ? This guy is one confusing man lol

When it comes to theistic Satanism, it's like Christianity in that there are different denominations or sects. I haven't looked into enough detail to know which sect he adhered to. I'm not sure why and others who are theistic Satanists (something I studied a bit and considered joining but haven't) aren't sure of either. Some theistic Satanists do abide by parts of his work while others are neutral and others absolutely despise his work. For some theistic Satantic groups, they openly say they want nothing to do with LaVeyan Satanism while others, although aren't atheistic, will consider some of his works. Much of this has to do with the sect of theistic Satanism.

A reason why some are confused is he does mention rituals but says they are not mandatory. As part of this, he does include some content of Satanic literature but he does make some changes, some debate if it's accidental versus intentional, although I don't bother with that as it gets into analyzing LaVey who as you said, was a pretty complicated man. Furthermore, some are confused why he called it the "Satanic Bible" if it is an atheistic philosophy. I will say though, the philosophy or practice is said to have taken a turn since LaVey died and handed down the title of High Priest to Peter H. Gilmore. I'm not well-versed on the biography of High Priest Gilmore so this may not be entirely correct but I think he never was a theistic Satanist, which is where there are some differences: theistic Satanist (LaVey) and atheistic Satanist (Gilmore).

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart!

When it comes to theistic Satanism, it's like Christianity in that there are different denominations or sects. I haven't looked into enough detail to know which sect he adhered to. I'm not sure why and others who are theistic Satanists (something I studied a bit and considered joining but haven't) aren't sure of either. Some theistic Satanists do abide by parts of his work while others are neutral and others absolutely despise his work. For some theistic Satantic groups, they openly say they want nothing to do with LaVeyan Satanism while others, although aren't atheistic, will consider some of his works. Much of this has to do with the sect of theistic Satanism.

I studied and practiced Theistic Satanism, or Spiritual Satanism as some like to call it. Theistic Satanists and LaVayen Satanists often dislike eachother, fervently debating who Satan is and if he really exists. I think that is really stupid to be honest, both Sects adhere to Satan being a symbol of Free Will, its just the Theists worship him as an actual entity. From my expirience, Satan is very much real, however it is very personal to the practitioner, so I will not preach when it is different for everyone.

Originally Posted by The Devil's Advocate ??

Thank you both so much I wa so confused on whether he was being literal and whatnot lol so he reallydid believe in spirits and demons lol ? This guy is one confusing man lol

Anton was a very confusing man. He was a Paranormal researcher, so he had some expirience with the supernatural, he even sought out a branch of the Order of Thelema. However he was a known atheist. I myself am very confused by his actions.

[The Devil's Advocate ??]

Originally Posted by Sythan

Anton was a very confusing man. He was a Paranormal researcher, so he had some expirience with the supernatural, he even sought out a branch of the Order of Thelema. However he was a known atheist. I myself am very confused by his actions.

So if he was looking into the Order of Thelema, does this mean if I read some of Crowleys works, would I find some similarities. I really don't know much about Crowley, but I'm assuming you're saying he had some sort of agreement with their practices, so perhaps they somewhat inspired him ? Hehe sorry I'm just confused and curious :3 Hm...Maybe I should just invest in a biography of Anton lol

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by The Devil's Advocate ??

So if he was looking into the Order of Thelema, does this mean if I read some of Crowleys works, would I find some similarities. I really don't know much about Crowley, but I'm assuming you're saying he had some sort of agreement with their practices, so perhaps they somewhat inspired him ? Hehe sorry I'm just confused and curious :3 Hm...Maybe I should just invest in a biography of Anton lol

Aleister Crowley is credited with being the first true Satanist, in both sense that he was completely free will as his saying suggests: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the Law, Love under Will", and he believed Satan existed.

Crowley's works are a great read, I have almost every one of his books, including the fictional ones like Moonchild. He invited his readers to interpret the meanings for themselves, coming to your own conclusion instead of him giving you a path to follow, forging your own way.

[The Devil's Advocate ??]

Thank you once again you show me that I have so much to learn still lol but yeah, i think I'm going to go out and find some of crowleys works today. Im genuinely intrigued lol he sounds like an interesting character