So much hate...

[Eldora]

Christians. I'll never understand them.

My friends, my family, my neighbors. They all think that Christians are the kings of the world. They talk about 'spreading their word' like it's a grand, important mission, yet the only thing they do is prosecute anyone who believes differently, looks different, or has a different orientation than the one that 'God wants us to be'.

My grandmother and aunt continually talk about Muslims and any different religion like they're the scum of the earth. But yet, who terrorized me into burning my favorite book, because it was evil? Who scared me so badly of evil demons and Satan and Hell that I was too afraid to even close my eyes, that I -- a mere child -- armed myself with chisels and a staff so that if that big black cloaked figure came up my stairs and attacked me, screaming, growling, and hissing, I could at least fight back before I died? Who made me fall into a depression, become so afraid of the sun that I couldn't leave my room for fear it would fall on my head, and thus become pale as a ghost and altogether unhealthy?

They did.

As much as I love my mom, she's the same way when it comes to gay or bisexual people, which is a real bad thing for my self esteem. I've wanted to talk to her about being bisexual for months, but yet if I did, she'd tell me that God didn't make me to be this way, and that something was wrong with me, and I'd have to tell her that I wasn't a Christian, either, so she couldn't control me. Then I'd be shunned, I wouldn't be loved as much, and I'd be considered a complete failure, just because I was different.

Why can't they all be like me, and accept other people for who they are, without unwarrented fear or anger toward them? A few years ago, even though I wasn't a Christian, I went to vacation Bible school, just to be around my family. This kid was too poor to afford a Bible for himself. I felt sorry for the kid, and so, I bought him a Bible, because even though I didn't believe the way he did, it still made me feel good to see the kid happy, being able to worship his God.

Why can't I worship my Gods openly without being prosecuted by these people? Why can't I write depressed poetry to vent my feelings, wear dark colors and pants a bit too baggy for my grandma's liking because I feel like it, have my hair dyed blue, like girls, listen to my music (which they call 'Devil music'), and not want to have children when I grow up, and still be loved by everyone around me?

Everyone automatically assumes I want to be a mother and housewife when I grow up, whether I want to be or not, that my wanting to either sing or be a police officer when I get older is just a stage, that my entire identity is a 'stage'.

I told my grandma the other day that I was going to be a police officer or a singer when I got older, that I didn't have time for children anywhere in my future. By this time I was already thoroughly mad, because they were telling me that when I'd better get used to wiping up puke early because I'd be wiping up plenty of it when I had kids to look after. This, after I'd made it quite clear that I wasn't going to be a housewife! I mean, nothing against those people, it's just not for me. And it all goes back to the fact that they, as Christians believe that women ought to remain at home. Why won't somebody just believe in me for a change?

I hate it when they judge other people's religions and orientation in front of me. I've been known to get angry and storm away to my house or to another room, slamming doors, because they wouldn't listen to me trying to tell them that not all Muslims are going to murder them in their beds, and not all gay and bisexual people are perverts who are a bit wacko in the head. My grandma's brother, let's call him D, was in the hospital a few months ago. Everyone else loves him to death. Honestly, yes, I'd be sorry if he died because of how my family would feel, but I really don't give a damn, because he's so prejudiced it's not even funny. Last summer I was visiting my grandma and he was dissing Muslims (they really have a thing for that) right in front of me. I gave them my side of things, calmly, and the next thing I know he's throwing his arms out and quoting Bible verses right and left, my grandma and aunt helping him, because I was trying to defend the Muslims. They made me even angrier when they said that 9/11 and the war was all the Muslims fault, at which point I pointed out that not all Muslims were like that, and most of them were terrorists, not Muslims, anyway.

Prejudice, especially in the form of Christians who try to shove their Bible under your nose and make you believe in their God, makes me angrier than any of you would probably believe. Sometimes I just shake and quiver with rage inside when I hear them talking like that, or talking about how good it is that someone's going to church after so many years of 'wandering astray' or how good it is that a previously believed lesbian girl is dating a guy. I just want to shout at them that I'm bi, that I'm not a Christian, and slam the door in their faces and run away to live with someone else who's less idiotic.

But then again, I love them. But Christians are so full of hate that I can't help but hate them in return, despite all that I try to do to resist it. I just want to do something to stop it, to stop people from hating other religions and other orientations and other races, but I can't do it.

Why the hell do those Christians have to be like this?

[Sythan]

Christ wasn't like this. He would be so ashamed of today's Christians. They do not understand love, they all hate, and they are all miserable if you haven't noticed.

They think the Bible is a proper legal argument as to why Gay Marriage should be banned, they think everything is religious.

I don't like them, at least the prejudice ones.

[Eldora]

Originally Posted by Sythan

Christ wasn't like this. He would be so ashamed of today's Christians. They do not understand love, they all hate, and they are all miserable if you haven't noticed.

They think the Bible is a proper legal argument as to why Gay Marriage should be banned, they think everything is religious.

I don't like them, at least the prejudice ones.

Yeah, well, I've never met one in my community who isn't prejudiced in some shape or form, whether they deny it or not.

Jesus: Yeah, if it was just him, and everyone else that followed him actually showed some love to their fellow wo/man, then I'd probably still be a Christian. He's a pretty good guy, from what I can gather. But his people have gone just plain batty.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Although many Christians I've met are like this, it's inaccurate to paint all them with the same brush. Some of them are very open and when you talk with them, you'd think they're an atheist yet they do go to church, pray, read the bible, etc... . It's contradictory or a paradox when Christians hate others by saying they follow the bible because the bible says not to hate. For example, in Galatians 5:19-21, Paul specifies that hatred along with other listed acts should not be done by Christians. Essentially, Paul is advocating for peacefulness, reduce hostility and so forth, not hatred (ironic because he does support oppression and slavery).

My view is that god is the one who is full of hatefulness but jesus for the most part isn't. I get pretty pissed when a Christian tells me what I believe is wrong and begins bible-thumping. Some have handed a bible to me and after politely refusing they still try, I take the bible and throw it in the nearest trashcan near them so they can see it or if no trashcan or puddles are near-by, it becomes a frisbee.

[SoSick]

Just saying, I didn't read the whole post. But I'll tell you this: I really hate what some Christians have done with their faith. We are supposed to be humble. We are supposed to love everyone, especially "pagans" and "infidels". We are not supposed to belittle anyone. We are not supposed to convert people or hate people. I honestly don't know where people got the idea that it's okay to burn Quraans and torment people of other religions, but it's disgusting.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by SoSick

Just saying, I didn't read the whole post. But I'll tell you this: I really hate what some Christians have done with their faith. We are supposed to be humble. We are supposed to love everyone, especially "pagans" and "infidels". We are not supposed to belittle anyone. We are not supposed to convert people or hate people. I honestly don't know where people got the idea that it's okay to burn Quraans and torment people of other religions, but it's disgusting.

Old Testament comes to mind. Many verses in it are taken out of context, such as some in Leviticus. It's a mix of what version of the bible is being read because some version don't contain certain things whereas others do, form of interpretation, understanding, moral compass and ability to think and reason without the bible in hand.

[Lugez]

It sucks that some Christians are like this. But like someone else said, don't judge millions of people based on a few. I've met some good Christians, and some extremely douchey one's (one of them was actually a priest). The same goes for every other group out there. No group is completely innocent in the end.

To add something different: I'm willing to bet that a great majority of us have that extremely racist/prejudice old person in our family. I know I did. But you just have to remember the time and place that they lived and grew up in. It's not an ideology you can't just scrape away after a lifetime of exposure. If you think about it, they have good reason to think the way they do. After all, the civil rights movement was what around 45-50 years ago? My parents are older than that and it can be argued that they have some prejudicial tendencies too.

And sometimes those values trickle down to our parents/aunts/uncles and even to us. It can vary in degrees though. Your case seems to be an extreme one.

So what's my point? I guess it's to give you something to think about. Yes, we all know that being prejudiced is bad blah blah but you also have to understand why some people stick to it. It's been a part of our society for many generations and it won't go away just like that. In extreme cases like these, I think you should find ways to work around it, rather than starting a heated war and slamming doors.

Last note: Keep in mind that all this hate for Christians, in a way, drags you down to their level. The kind of thinking you present here can very easily become prejudiced too. If you won't accept them for who they are, they won't accept you either.

[Power Cosmic]

As someone who grew up with a religious family, I can understand how easy it is to just start hating them all. It's a nice simple effective way, but well, thing is, sometimes, despite their religion, people can be nice enough.

But I just have to say, I do understand what you mean...for example, even now, when I'm 21, I can't tell my parents any kind of truth about me, what I feel, what my views on things are, and that I'm the furthest thing from religious that one could possibly be.

I'd advise you do what I did, focus on the younger members of your family, like younger siblings, cousins, help them not get brainwashed, ensure that the future generation won't be so bad. And also, don't give in, never ever give in. It's awful being in such a situation, but remember, YOU are right, they're wrong. Don't let any amount of pressure from them let you lose sight of that, 'kay, you have right on your side.

And about Jesus...lol, I always find it ironically hilarious how badly someone like ole' JC would get hung, drawn and quartered by a horde of ravenous Teabaggers for being a liberal hippy nowadays. xD. Ohwell, just goes on to prove the innate flaws in religion.

[Megan1]

I’m really sorry that you are going through this with your family showing you so much hate.

I am a Christian as well and while I am also against homosexuality (the act, not the people) and other religions, I think that your family is being very cruel about it and this is NOT how God tells us to act. Just because they are against it doesn't mean they should shove it in your face 24/7. True Christians aren’t supposed to hate anyone. True Christians aren’t supposed to gossip about anyone. True Christians aren’t supposed to hold back love from anyone. True Christians aren't supposed to think that they are better than anyone else- because the truth is that us Christians are no better than anyone else- we just happened be fortunate enough to have found the truth.

I’m not saying that your family members aren’t true Christians; they probably are…..but I’m just saying that they aren’t acting very Christ-like. While Jesus was also against homosexuality and false gods, He still loved the people who took part in those things. He was still friends with them. He still showed compassion for them. That is how we are supposed to be. We don’t have to support what people are doing, but we should still love them and not hurt them.

I understand your family wanting to share the gospel with you, because I would too. However, the way that they are doing it isn’t going to do anything but hurt you. They should lovingly tell you about what Jesus did for you to take your sins away because of how much He loves you, and how since this is a free gift, you have to accept it in order to receive it and go to Heaven- they should do that rather than just force all the rules on you. Because if you don’t first have Jesus, none of those rules mean anything.

Just so you know, not all Christians are so full of hate. And Jesus does not tell us to be like that. Any Christian who is like that has taken it upon themselves to decide to do that- God isn't telling them to. I’m not saying that God supports your choices, but I’m saying that He loves you anyways.

[Power Cosmic]

I find it somewhat depressing you're talking like being against homosexuality isn't a frothingly ignorant, hate-filled view to take on =/. You're being completely hypocritical... It doesn't matter how you try to justify it, that's fig1. bigotry right there.
You should really examine your morals again if what you're saying actually sounds like anything approaching 'love' to you =/.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I’m really sorry that you are going through this with your family showing you so much hate.

I am a Christian as well and while I am also against homosexuality (the act, not the people) and other religions, I think that your family is being very cruel about it and this is NOT how God tells us to act. Just because they are against it doesn't mean they should shove it in your face 24/7. True Christians aren’t supposed to hate anyone. True Christians aren’t supposed to gossip about anyone. True Christians aren’t supposed to hold back love from anyone. True Christians aren't supposed to think that they are better than anyone else- because the truth is that us Christians are no better than anyone else- we just happened be fortunate enough to have found the truth.

I’m not saying that your family members aren’t true Christians; they probably are…..but I’m just saying that they aren’t acting very Christ-like. While Jesus was also against homosexuality and false gods, He still loved the people who took part in those things. He was still friends with them. He still showed compassion for them. That is how we are supposed to be. We don’t have to support what people are doing, but we should still love them and not hurt them.

I understand your family wanting to share the gospel with you, because I would too. However, the way that they are doing it isn’t going to do anything but hurt you. They should lovingly tell you about what Jesus did for you to take your sins away because of how much He loves you, and how since this is a free gift, you have to accept it in order to receive it and go to Heaven- they should do that rather than just force all the rules on you. Because if you don’t first have Jesus, none of those rules mean anything.

Just so you know, not all Christians are so full of hate. And Jesus does not tell us to be like that. Any Christian who is like that has taken it upon themselves to decide to do that- God isn't telling them to. I’m not saying that God supports your choices, but I’m saying that He loves you anyways.

I find it so difficult to comprehend how someone who spews such ignorance and bigotry cant pull their head out and see that is how they're acting. Instead, you phrase it so lightly as though it's perfectly fine. You should look at how you're presenting it because you're looking like a hypocritical ignorant bigot. Also, you should look at how you're presenting it to find a moral compass because I cant see a single ounce of love coming from what you've just posted.

Why do you not even encourage (assuming this thought has crossed your mind) a hypothetical situation where the family doesn't tell what jesus did because the OP has no desire to hear about it? If you were against something and hated that topic, would you want people to continuously push their knowledge at you? Would you suddenly like it if they phrased it differently but kept the exact same content? Most people wouldn't and I assume you fall into the category of most people. For example, let's say you and I interacted in-person and you were pestering me with some biblical information that I really don't care about nor wanted to hear. If I made that known to you, would you think "hmm, maybe if I phrase it differently, he'll listen"? Or, would you think "well, he has his mind made up"? Currently it seems like you'd go for the first option along with lacking self-insight and a moral compass.

[Megan1]

I've said this a million times here, but there is a difference between hating someone and hating what someone does. You can love someone and be against what they do. The difference is how you talk to them about it. For me personally, if I was the OP's mom/grandma, I wouldn't be telling her day and night "what you are doing is wrong". I would probably calmly explain it to her once, and then if she asked me questions about my beliefs I would answer her....but I wouldn't be pestering her about it all the time like she says her family is.

Also, I didn't say that you should talk about the gospel with them 24/7. I think that's a bad idea actually. I think you should lovingly tell them about the gospel at least once, and from there just be a good example and pray for them. I didn't mean to say to keep telling them over and over again about Jesus. I think you should just tell them once unless they ask or show interest.

If someone debates with me about the gospel, I tend to keep answering them because I want to defend God. But in all honestly, I shouldn't. I should tell them the truth once and then leave it in God's hands and move on. I'm just so desperate to defend God that I tend to do more than I should sometimes. And if I ever did that here (I know I have), I'm sorry. Not for defending God, but for the way that I did it.

[Power Cosmic]

Sure there's a difference, but the thing is, the point remains does that difference in any way make you exempt from the moral ramifications of such thought?

Let me put it in a simpler way. You're promoting a conflict by saying that you'd be against what someone does, and yet 'love' them. Which just makes me facepalm, frankly, since you're really not thinking. If there's an attribute associated with you, even a defining one, depending on the person, and someone says "I like you, except about this about you" It's like saying you'll love someone despite them being a ginger or having green eyes. Just add to it that homophobia is something that's gone on for a long time, and hence you're merely adding fuel to that fire with such conceptions.
It's still an insult, it's still discriminatory and encourages prejudice. And not only that, but worse, it encourages prejudice whilst you sit there and tell yourself you're something other than a bigot and a homophobe in a rather thin disguise. Which is even more insulting frankly =/.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I've said this a million times here, but there is a difference between hating someone and hating what someone does. You can love someone and be against what they do. The difference is how you talk to them about it. For me personally, if I was the OP's mom/grandma, I wouldn't be telling her day and night "what you are doing is wrong". I would probably calmly explain it to her once, and then if she asked me questions about my beliefs I would answer her....but I wouldn't be pestering her about it all the time like she says her family is.

Also, I didn't say that you should talk about the gospel with them 24/7. I think that's a bad idea actually. I think you should lovingly tell them about the gospel at least once, and from there just be a good example and pray for them. I didn't mean to say to keep telling them over and over again about Jesus. I think you should just tell them once unless they ask or show interest.

If someone debates with me about the gospel, I tend to keep answering them because I want to defend God. But in all honestly, I shouldn't. I should tell them the truth once and then leave it in God's hands and move on. I'm just so desperate to defend God that I tend to do more than I should sometimes. And if I ever did that here (I know I have), I'm sorry. Not for defending God, but for the way that I did it.

I'm not sure if you don't understand or if you simply ignore this: you're saying you can hate defining features of the person yet love the person. If you hate the defining features, what is it that you're apparently loving? It's a mix of hate-love but hate seems to dominate. Furthermore, the hate isn't your own, the hate is from the version of the bible you read (earlier versions don't even mention homosexuality but that aside) so you're not thinking on your own. You decided to obey parts of the bible very rigidly to the letter and so you cannot think nor understand why you're constantly making yourself look like a fool or why people point this out to you.

You can defend your god but the way you're doing it shows it's hateful, hypocritical and a bigot. You may be so desperate to defend your god, however, think about what you're posting. Think whether it makes sense in general because if it doesn't, then you're not going to be successful. As mentioned, you're failing to think for yourself both in the content, how you're presenting it and your failure to understand why the views you give aren't taken well.

If you want to argue purely along the bible, your argument is incredibly limited and very flimsy. For starters, you cannot attest to the fact the bible has always been against homosexuality as that's incorrect. It boils down to the versions that state it, to which counter-arguments are changing political and social times, changes in content due to numerous translations over various languages and editing along the process. Point is, arguing from the versions that state your view have extremely poor credibility overall. Furthermore, depending on the verses you choose, they can be refuted immediately, such as the ones pertaining to homosexuality in Leviticus (I think 18:21 but not sure). If you want to adopt the New Testament only and conveniently ignore the Old Testament (hypocritical since that's where the 10 Commandments are, genesis, etc... which you support), you then have passages saying to love one another and embrace humanity as a whole. It's a far cry from the truth to say you're doing that in your anti-homosexual posts.

Point is, think for yourself. Put down your bible and think rationally as to why some of your statements are absurd.

As for how often you'd tell a non-believer who you live with/near in-person about the bible, I have doubts on those your statements but that's a bit more guesswork so I don't want to get involved in that now.

[Megan1]

I believe that love means unconditional committment. You can definitely be unconditionally committed to someone (meaning always being there for them, always being their friend, etc.) without liking all of the choices that they make. That's what love is to me (and what the bible seems to suggest that love is). And I believe that hate is just the oposite of love- not being unconditionally committed to someone; therefor leaving them/being disgusted with them/being mean to them when they do something that you don't like. I don't do that.

And when you say that my opinion comes from the version of the bible that I read since the original one didn't say that homosexuality is wrong.....I actually read the version translated straight from Greek without any changing or paraphrasing (New American Standard). And no, it doesn't say word for word "homosexuality is a sin", but it suggests it enough that I definitely believe it, and it does say that "a man shall not lie naturally with another man as a man lies with a woman". However, since I do not want to get into a "whether or not the bible is against homosexuality" debate AGAIN here, if you want to know why I believe what I do please just read the other threads that I have posted in. The point of this thread was originally this girl needing to vent because her family is showing her so much hate....this isn't a thread to debate about different translations of the bible. I don't want to take over this girl's thread here, so I'm thinking we should just drop this all together.

And I SHOULD tell someone only once about the gospel and just pray for them from there. I sometimes mess up and do it more than that because I am just so desperate for them to be saved. However, I know that constant nagging is wrong and I try my best not to. I do mess up sometimes though. That's why I said a few posts ago "I'm sorry. Not for defending God, but for the way that I sometimes go about it".

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I believe that love means unconditional committment. You can definitely be unconditionally committed to someone (meaning always being there for them, always being their friend, etc.) without liking all of the choices that they make. That's what love is to me (and what the bible seems to suggest that love is). And I believe that hate is just the oposite of love- not being unconditionally committed to someone; therefor leaving them/being disgusted with them/being mean to them when they do something that you don't like. I don't do that.

You don't do that? You said you're so desperate to tell people of the gospel and pray for them. That's intolerance, narrow-mindedness and ignorance toward their belief because you don't bother to even look their belief up to see what it is. You have the same mindset as the OP's grandmother and aunt. In fact, it's this mindset that led to so much of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity leading to its blood-soaked history. The only difference is you don't kill nor torture non-believers . You display the same prejudice and unacceptance as the OP's grandmother and aunt do.

Your desperation to tell them of the gospel, essentially with the hope of converting them, is full of hatred and disgust toward their belief. You cant have unconditional love and have that. If you had unconditional love, you wouldn't start praying and telling them of the gospel like you do, not to mention the already discussed ignorance and bigotry you display from your beliefs. You may have an idea of what unconditional love is but you're not displaying it.

Originally Posted by Megan1

And when you say that my opinion comes from the version of the bible that I read since the original one didn't say that homosexuality is wrong.....I actually read the version translated straight from Greek without any changing or paraphrasing (New American Standard). And no, it doesn't say word for word "homosexuality is a sin", but it suggests it enough that I definitely believe it, and it does say that "a man shall not lie naturally with another man as a man lies with a woman".

Re-read in Leviticus because it is addressed not to Christians but to the children of Israel. It repeats this throughout Leviticus in at least once every chapter.

Several bible versions are translated from Greek, the first ones being the King James Version and Douay Rheims Bible. However, the New American Standard updates the language so it resembles modern English, not old English, hence, it's not a direct translation. http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/

However, debate of the bible versions is suited to a different thread.

[BDF]

Not all muslims are like that. Not all christians are like that. Sorry you have to put up with all of it, but face it, probably nothing will change their minds. They are set in their ways and think that because they are older they know better than you by default because they've got more "life experiance" (as quoted almost identically by my mum to me once).

I'm glad you know what you want to do with yourself at least. It's their own fault they allowed their own ignorance to grow that way, unless they were brainwashed from birth the same way they tried to brainwash you. Back in their childhood however their wasn't any media like there is today to show them otherwise, hence why you are different from them.

[dr2005]

I suppose the most constructive thing I can say here - other than to apologise for the general douchebag tendencies of some of my fellow Christians - would be that such hatred or expression thereof is not confined to Christianity or the religious by any stretch of the imagination, and are more often reflections of societal norms and constructs in that particular environment. The behaviours you mention speak more of their own intolerance of difference than anything, which is certainly not demanded or proscribed by any denominational service I've sat in. Indeed, to say that some "Christians" have missed the point of Jesus' ministry in the first place would be a gigantic understatement. Whether it's a reflection on the flaws of religion or the general stupidity of the human race is a matter for another thread, although my inclination would be more towards the latter - religion, like any idea, is only as good as the homo sapiens sapiens implementing it. But I digress. The main thing is that while I am sorry your family are acting in what seems quite a callous manner, we're not all like that by any means.

[Eldora]

I know not all Christians are like that, because some of you guys here, and some of the others I've met online, are not prejudiced at all, and a few of the younger generation at my school aren't so prejudiced. Thus 'those' in front of Christians in that last sentence, referring to those Christians who are prejudiced, and not to those who aren't.

And, sleepy as I was when I wrote this thing, I think I may have exaggerated a bit when I said I slammed doors. I've only did that once. But I do speak out, and I have to keep a very close check on my temper. It's just so hard to get them to understand that nothing's wrong with different people, and I know it probably isn't going to work, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try.

Today, my mom told me something interesting: She was talking to my grandma, and my grandma randomly came out and said that she didn't think I believed in God. Which has got me afraid. Yes, I do believe in the existence of God, because I believe that if anyone has such a strong faith in it, is to some extent real. But that's not the point. The point is, while I do believe that he, as another branching path off life, is real, I do not worship him. My mom said she thinks the reason my grandmother thinks so is because of the fact I told my grandma once a day for two days that there's nothing wrong with other religions. Once, when she wouldn't tell my Muslim cousin how to join a Facebook account to support my military cousin, and a second time the next day when they were laughing at a Jehovah's Witness lady they'd run off.

My dad agreed with my grandma, and I told him that I didn't think there was anything wrong with a lady just trying to settle rumors about her religion being ungodly. My dad said this in reply: "Well, you never know what shape the Devil comes in. How do you know she wasn't the Devil?"

I told him politely that I wasn't going to say anything more, because I didn't agree with him and if I didn't shut up, I'd end up quarreling at him, and then he'd shout at me and I wouldn't be allowed to go anywhere but right there until I 'understood' (though didn't tell him that last bit).

Thank you all for talking to me, though. It's really nice to finally have someone who understands.

Megan1: I think it's good of you to be so sure of your faith, and good that you cease trying to convert them after once. However, I do believe that trying to convert people in the first place isn't a good idea, unless they outrightly show an interest in your religion, because not only is it going to get them angry at you, it's also not going to work.

[JKmadu619]

I consider myself a christian, however a non-practicing, only follow major guidelines, who-gives-a-damn kind of christian.

Also about preaching christianity and trying to "Convert" is stupid. To me God's actions would drive someone to follow him, not a preachy middle aged woman giving away free bibles in the street.

Gays, or whatever the politically correct term is, are accepted by many christians. You will always have ignorant people (Baby boomers for instance were all raised at the same time. Meaning they really all share similair ideals. I personally think having one major group representing a majority of society is a huge problem. Luckily many are fifty to sixty years old, meaning their rules won't matter in another twenty years.

I understand how some christians can be annoying. I myself know some who cannot go twelve seconds without pointing out how God made something or makes good things happen "God made the roads!" or "Oh! Oh! God made those flowers" to which I silently think to myself: "God didn't personally plant the flowers. God didn't make the roads himself."

Christians like any group have good and bad. Sadly the good are loud and annoying always needing their opinions (Which are better than anyone else's, mind you.) heard. Annoying women are heard more, obnoxious men are heard more, bad christians are heard more. It's just how things work.

- Justin

[Megan1]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

You don't do that? You said you're so desperate to tell people of the gospel and pray for them. That's intolerance, narrow-mindedness and ignorance toward their belief because you don't bother to even look their belief up to see what it is. You have the same mindset as the OP's grandmother and aunt. In fact, it's this mindset that led to so much of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity leading to its blood-soaked history. The only difference is you don't kill nor torture non-believers . You display the same prejudice and unacceptance as the OP's grandmother and aunt do.

Your desperation to tell them of the gospel, essentially with the hope of converting them, is full of hatred and disgust toward their belief. You cant have unconditional love and have that. If you had unconditional love, you wouldn't start praying and telling them of the gospel like you do, not to mention the already discussed ignorance and bigotry you display from your beliefs. You may have an idea of what unconditional love is but you're not displaying it.



Re-read in Leviticus because it is addressed not to Christians but to the children of Israel. It repeats this throughout Leviticus in at least once every chapter.

Several bible versions are translated from Greek, the first ones being the King James Version and Douay Rheims Bible. However, the New American Standard updates the language so it resembles modern English, not old English, hence, it's not a direct translation. http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/

However, debate of the bible versions is suited to a different thread.

Your opinion is coming from someone who doesn't believe that the Christian God is the only God. But think about it.....if you believed that my God is the only one that really exists, wouldn't it be wrong/hateful of you to NOT try to stop your friends from going to hell? What sounds more hateful to you- annoying your friend with a gospel message for 5 minutes, or letting your friend spend eternity in hell?

I know that doesn't mean much to you because you don't believe that my God is the only God. But if you truly did believe that like I do, wouldn't it be unloving to not try to stop that from happening to people?

And NASB is changed to new English, but the words all still mean the same thing and it isn't paraphrased at all. For example, they changed the word "thy" to "the" . That's not really changing it, that's just putting it into our language. Each word is translated straight from Greek to modern English without paraphrasing, and they tell you if there is more than one possible meaning to the word.

Jesus said for us people who live in the New Testament to still obey the law of Moses unless God specifically tells us otherwise (like how the bible later says that we can now eat pork because God can bless it and make it clean, we don't have to celebrate the sabbath once we are saved because Jesus is our sabbath, we don't have to sacrifice animals any more because Jesus was our sacrifice, etc ).

[Eldora]

Originally Posted by Megan1

Your opinion is coming from someone who doesn't believe that the Christian God is the only God. But think about it.....if you believed that my God is the only one that really exists, wouldn't it be wrong/hateful of you to NOT try to stop your friends from going to hell? What sounds more hateful to you- annoying your friend with a gospel message for 5 minutes, or letting your friend spend eternity in hell?

I know that doesn't mean much to you because you don't believe that my God is the only God. But if you truly did believe that like I do, wouldn't it be unloving to not try to stop that from happening to people?

I believe that though I really don't like that idea, I wouldn't try to stop them. Why? Because it's their choice, and if they don't believe in it, then odds are they aren't going to anytime soon.

Imagine:

Somebody continually tells you to walk to the east, because the east is the direction of paradise. However, you find that it is much easier to walk in a westerly direction, the direction of your ancestors and the direction your true love waits for you in. They continue to prod you and tell you to go to the east, and that if you keep going, you'll run into a swollen river which you cannot cross, but on which exists a boat that you can use to get across. What would you do, Megan? Honestly, would you listen to them, who you hardly know in the first place, and turn to the east and their idea of paradise, or go home to your ancestors and the person you love, simply cannot live without?

Or, you're a knight in shining armor (or lady in shining armor, respectively), who wants to return home after a terrible war. You're told by a random person on the street with your enemy's shield on their arm that if you keep going toward your home, you'll be slowly roasted over the evil wizard's fire for the rest of eternity. You can't live without your love, so which path do you take? The one toward your love and your people, or the one toward this random person's paradise?

It's the same way with religion.

Somebody continually tells me to walk the path of God, because the path of the evil Satan (homosexuality, different religion, et cetera) is the one I'm following, and paradise lies down the other path. However, I want stay with my girlfriend (though, I might add, I'm currently single) because I just can't live without her. Christian extremists prod at me with their words, try to convince me that if I keep going, I'll end up burning for eternity. But you know what? Just like the knight who wanted to go home to her lover and her people, and the person in the first scenario I presented who wanted her wife and ancestors, I'm not going to choose the way this random person wants me to go, just because he says I'll burn in a place I've never seen, touched, heard, or smelled in my entire life.

And if that makes any sense to you, then I will be surprised.


EDIT: And Justin, you're Straight Edge? *high five* My role model is Straight Edge.

[Megan1]

I do understand what you are saying and I understand what people are feeling when they deny salvation. However, that doesn't mean that I should stop trying just because it isn't likely for people to change their minds. There have been times where telling people the truth HAS saved them and they HAVE accepted it. Just because it isn't likely that they will listen to me doesn't mean that it's a lost cause. If it was a lost cause, Christianity would have died out a long time ago. If it was a lost cause, I wouldn't be saved right now.

I have been in that situation that you mentioned once....metaphorically of course. I chose "that random person's paradise" (God) over "my love" (all of the things that I wanted for myself in this life, including a guy who I thought I loved at the time because the relationship was unGodly). Why did I choose that? Well, because I knew that "my love" was something that I could only have while on Earth and it wouldn't last. However, "that random person's paradise" (God) was something that I could keep forever. Plus, even if I wasn't getting anything out of it, I'd rather serve the God who made me than do any of the selfish things that I wanted for myself.

[Eldora]

I believe it may be best to end this conversation, because I don't think either one of us are going to make any headway.

But, I'm just going to say this one thing: How do you know for certain that you are saving them? Maybe that person happens to be right, despite what you say, and by converting them to Christianity, you are damning them? What you fail to realize, I think, is that every other member of every other non-Christian faith believes in their religion just as firmly as you believe in your's.

There's a fifty percent chance that you're right, and they're wrong, as well as a fifty percent chance that they're wrong, and you're right. How does anyone know for sure that what they're believing in is real, unless they truly believe in it with their whole heart? That's what faith is all about.

And that's what I've been getting at. Fear and faith are two different things. What Christians cause is fear. Preaching inflicts fear on anyone who has done anything to set a foot out of their line. Faith is a bright, happy thing, where you believe that what you believe is true.

In your case, you have true faith. But you have to realize that all of the atheists and people of other religions; if they convert to your faith, for the most part, they're doing it out of fear. If someone was pointing a gun in their face, they'd go along with them. If someone was telling them about hell, they'd go along with them. It's intimidates you into walking the Christian straight and narrow.

There are many ways to teach people about your religion, to help them without ever having to threaten them. If you're not threatening them with hell, and if you don't persist even after they tell you not to, I can't see the harm.

But if you're threatening them with hell, it's the same thing as holding a gun in their face, or telling them you're arresting them: They're either going to follow your God or they're going to fight back. And if they follow you, they're just doing it to keep from being shot, not because they truly love God.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Megan1

Your opinion is coming from someone who doesn't believe that the Christian God is the only God. But think about it.....if you believed that my God is the only one that really exists, wouldn't it be wrong/hateful of you to NOT try to stop your friends from going to hell? What sounds more hateful to you- annoying your friend with a gospel message for 5 minutes, or letting your friend spend eternity in hell?

Spend eternity in hell because otherwise it's imposing on their beliefs. If they did go to hell, tough shit but they did so believing in something they liked, embraced, lived their lives around and provided comfort to them. I'd rather see my friends go down in flames knowing they had a life where they believed in what they liked versus going to a place for an indefinite time because I badgered them enough for them to abandon their views.

Originally Posted by Megan1

I do understand what you are saying and I understand what people are feeling when they deny salvation. However, that doesn't mean that I should stop trying just because it isn't likely for people to change their minds. There have been times where telling people the truth HAS saved them and they HAVE accepted it.

That's the issue right there, "saving them". They're not in any foreseeable danger. You and I have a 50% chance of being right when it comes to the afterlife yet you're making it seem yours has a 100% chance. You're scaring yourself into thinking if you don't help your friends, they'll be doomed but you're over-looking the fact you only have a 50% chance.

Originally Posted by Megan1

If it was a lost cause, Christianity would have died out a long time ago.

Huh? It's been going for 2000+ years incorporating millions, probably billions. In that view, you're not even a speck of dust.

[Megan1]

I agree that we should end this conversation. But since you asked questions, I am going to answer them before leaving.

I can't prove Christianity to you because you have to believe by faith not by sight. So even though I know that this is the right way, I have to way to prove it to you, so I can't debate.

And about me being just a speck of dust compared to everything- I agree. What I was saying is, witnessing to people isn't a lost cause. Someone here said that "it's not like pestering them with the gospel is going to change their views anyways", and I was pointing out that if speaking the gospel really never changed people's views, Christianity would have been pretty much dead ages ago.

[Eldora]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I can't prove Christianity to you because you have to believe by faith not by sight.

Agreed. Faith is belief in a higher power (or, powers), that can't be proven by sight.

Originally Posted by Megan1

And about me being just a speck of dust compared to everything- I agree. What I was saying is, witnessing to people isn't a lost cause. Someone here said that "it's not like pestering them with the gospel is going to change their views anyways", and I was pointing out that if speaking the gospel really never changed people's views, Christianity would have been pretty much dead ages ago.

Sorry, I can't help but add this bit, but Christianity would have also been dead ages ago had they not ruthlessly slaughtered and destroyed civilizations to spread their religion. Many Christians wouldn't even be Christians, had their long-ago ancestors not been forced to by maniac priests, or had they not been forced into it by their families out of guilt if they didn't.

No offense.

[dr2005]

Originally Posted by Eldora

Sorry, I can't help but add this bit, but Christianity would have also been dead ages ago had they not ruthlessly slaughtered and destroyed civilizations to spread their religion. Many Christians wouldn't even be Christians, had their long-ago ancestors not been forced to by maniac priests, or had they not been forced into it by their families out of guilt if they didn't.

No offense.

While that may be true to some extent with regard to the emergence of Christianity in South & Latin America (and on that I would wholeheartedly agree the conquistadores have a LOT to answer for), I'm afraid that does not fit the history of Christianity in Europe in the slightest, and it's not entirely true for North America either. In Europe Christianity became most prevalent through the Roman Empire, after which point most countries were Christian in one form or another (except Scandinavia and some Germanic territories it should be noted). It was not so much Christians wiping out "heathen" civilisations as Christians fighting Christians - which is somewhat ironic when you think about it. North America is a more difficult one, but given there were settlement attempts by at least three different European nations - the UK, France and the Netherlands - and Spain already having a presence in the region, the violence directed towards the Native Americans was more down to issues of geography and politics rather than religion. They did after all fight among themselves quite viciously as well, whereas if it was a "holy war" you'd have thought they'd club together. Christianity is by no means innocent and I would not claim as such, but to suggest it has staying power only because it exterminated "heathen" civilisations is stretching the bounds of credulity somewhat.

[Megan1]

Originally Posted by Eldora

Sorry, I can't help but add this bit, but Christianity would have also been dead ages ago had they not ruthlessly slaughtered and destroyed civilizations to spread their religion. Many Christians wouldn't even be Christians, had their long-ago ancestors not been forced to by maniac priests, or had they not been forced into it by their families out of guilt if they didn't.

No offense.

I don't agree that Christianity would have been dead a long time ago without those things happening- because I think that there were still some Christians even then who truly were Christian only because they loved God and not because they were being forced.

But yes, those killings and crimes were horrible and shouldn't have happened. I'm not saying for sure that those people who did those crimes weren't really Christians, because only God knows for sure.....but I think it's pretty likely that they were the type of people who just enforced the rules and shoved it in people's faces without really having a heart for God.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I don't agree that Christianity would have been dead a long time ago without those things happening- because I think that there were still some Christians even then who truly were Christian only because they loved God and not because they were being forced.

All the major religions generally lasted so long because they were forced upon people. Throughout the years, the ones who were truly Christian would die as everyone does and pass the belief on to the next generation. With all the competition and violence from other beliefs done to people who didn't believe in their religion, it seems unlikely Christians would've survived had they not also engaged in such violence and ruling.

Originally Posted by Megan1

I'm not saying for sure that those people who did those crimes weren't really Christians, because only God knows for sure

Yet in so many threads you've defined people as being a "true Christian" versus not a true Christian.

Originally Posted by Megan1

they were the type of people who just enforced the rules and shoved it in people's faces without really having a heart for God.

Didn't you just say above only god knows for sure? It'd be pointless and useless for you to speculate then as you'd never know the answer, yet you seem very sure you do.

[LittleMsFOB]

Hey,
I'm very sorry that your family is treating you this way. Hatred, predjudice, and putting conditions on you being an accepted member of the family are not Christian actions. The greatest commandment according to Jesus is to love, both God and everyone around you. Please try to remember that not all Christians are like that, you can't draw a conclusion about an entire group based on the actions of a few. Most people are not as narrow-minded. As a Christian, I'm often frustrated by people who have a different opinion on an issue and feel compelled to crush my viewpoint out. It helps me, and might help you, to remember that they are entitled to their opinion just as you are, and that you're both doing what you sincerely think is right, so it's okay to disagree. Your family is probably acting with good intentions, though you are quite within your rights to disagree. Follow your heart and your conscience, and try not to hate, because as you've seen firsthand, it's poison.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by Megan1

I do understand what you are saying and I understand what people are feeling when they deny salvation.

May I ask, who are you to know what Salvation is?

The Gospel was not written by God or any Higher Being, it was written by men, men who are full of lust and sin. As your Bible says, "All men are Sinners" so in actuality, the Gospel and Bible are products of sin. Sin, according to Christian belief, is the work of Satan tempting men. So, you are infact, sending them to hell for preaching from a book of sin.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by Sythan

May I ask, who are you to know what Salvation is?

The Gospel was not written by God or any Higher Being, it was written by men, men who are full of lust and sin. As your Bible says, "All men are Sinners" so in actuality, the Gospel and Bible are products of sin. Sin, according to Christian belief, is the work of Satan tempting men. So, you are infact, sending them to hell for preaching from a book of sin.

Well played!