God and Aliens

[Jocelyn.]

I was lurking in another forum the other day, and happened to stumble across a thread asking if other users believed in aliens. The show Ancient Aliens was brought up (although I've admittedly never watched it). The description of the show is

the program presents theories of ancient astronauts and proposes that historical texts, archaeology and legends contain evidence of past human-extraterrestrial contact.

Basically that aliens may have played a part in things like the building of the pyramids/stonehendge/easter island, Noah's Ark, that the bible makes references to what were aliens and not angels, and even going as far as to say humans were put on earth by aliens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Aliens

Continuing on, many Christians on the site were claiming that these statements were bogus and much to farfetched to be believable. Now, as I said I've never watched the shows, but to be honest from the little I read about it the show makes some compelling arguments. All it really boils down to for me is that no one really knows, and will probably not know the truth in my lifetime.

In my atheist mind, aliens having already made contact with us seems much less "farfetched" than does the Christian religion, but neither of them honestly hold much truth to me.

It just surprised me that for people who hold so much faith in the tales of the bible, they could find the thought of alien life preposterous. Maybe because it was partially attacking what they so wholeheartedly believe in? Christians, if we were to be contacted by aliens (or have been), what would that mean for you? I honestly don't know what the bible has to say about life outside of earth...

[Sythan]

I'm Pagan and I don't believe in aliens at all. It will take a lot more than a few lights in the sky and eye witness testimony without any actual proof to convince me they exist.

[Kitty.]

Originally Posted by ball&chain

It just surprised me that for people who hold so much faith in the tales of the bible, they could find the thought of alien life preposterous. Maybe because it was partially attacking what they so wholeheartedly believe in? Christians, if we were to be contacted by aliens (or have been), what would that mean for you? I honestly don't know what the bible has to say about life outside of earth...

Whether or not aliens exist do not attack what I believe in at all. If aliens exist, that will not change my views on the Bible.

My dad is a Christian and he fully believes in aliens. He told me to read this book (Click here. I believe that this is the book he had me read. I could be wrong though.) and honestly, it did have quite a lot of good points and it could definitely be true.

My belief about aliens at the moment is this: If they exist, I do not believe that they are humans with souls. I believe that they are animals, lifeforms, etc. And if that book is true, they are very smart.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Fierce

Whether or not aliens exist do not attack what I believe in at all. If aliens exist, that will not change my views on the Bible.

The OP wasn't attacking your beliefs. The OP was essentially saying, if Christians have blind faith in god, do they have blind faith in alien existence? Both have no solid evidence so both are similar on those 2 accounts. It could be phrased toward atheists by saying if you have no faith in god, do you believe in aliens because neither have any evidence and are speculated? That's not an attack on your belief. Look through this part of the forum, you'll find posts that resemble attacks on your belief.

Originally Posted by Fierce

My dad is a Christian and he fully believes in aliens. He told me to read this book (Click here. I believe that this is the book he had me read. I could be wrong though.) and honestly, it did have quite a lot of good points and it could definitely be true.

It's ironic how you're supporting the OP by saying this. The OP was saying Christians read a book and have blind faith its contents are true, and here you are saying you read a book on aliens and say its contents are likely true. I can see the argument it may not be blind faith in that, however, your father has blind faith in both and some of the blind faith in aliens came from reading a book.

Originally Posted by Fierce

My belief about aliens at the moment is this: If they exist, I do not believe that they are humans with souls. I believe that they are animals, lifeforms, etc. And if that book is true, they are very smart.

Humans are animals biologically and the biological definition is the only one used when referring to taxonomy.

[John 6:29]

You have to understand that some people who take the Bible literally it IS their evidence as opposed to scientific evidence. That is, the Bible for them rules out any other theories. So, if it doesn't match up with the Bible, yes, it will be far-fetched to them. Personally, I do take the Bible literally, but I do not close my mind to alternatives, and I would not find it weird if there were aliens. Just because the Bible doesn't mention it, doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means the Bible doesn't mention it. And the Bible has done this with other instances, I believe, where other people were created but it has no mention of them being created (I can elaborate if you want). But simply, just because it's weird to you, doesn't mean it's weird to someone else. It's rather relative, really. Christian's think atheist's beliefs are weird, and atheist's believe Christian beliefs are weird. So, I don't really understand what your point is (no offense).

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

And the Bible has done this with other instances, I believe, where other people were created but it has no mention of them being created (I can elaborate if you want).

Can you please elaborate on this as I've never heard you mention "other people" nor can I figure out which people you're referring to. By "other people", do you mean aliens?

[Jocelyn.]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

You have to understand that some people who take the Bible literally it IS their evidence as opposed to scientific evidence. That is, the Bible for them rules out any other theories. So, if it doesn't match up with the Bible, yes, it will be far-fetched to them. Personally, I do take the Bible literally, but I do not close my mind to alternatives, and I would not find it weird if there were aliens. Just because the Bible doesn't mention it, doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means the Bible doesn't mention it. And the Bible has done this with other instances, I believe, where other people were created but it has no mention of them being created (I can elaborate if you want). But simply, just because it's weird to you, doesn't mean it's weird to someone else. It's rather relative, really. Christian's think atheist's beliefs are weird, and atheist's believe Christian beliefs are weird. So, I don't really understand what your point is (no offense).

My point was basically summed up with my last sentence. I really can't imagine that we are the only life in the entire universe and would like a Christians input on what life on other planets would mean to them exactly. Did god create the universe and would that include possible life on other planets? Or did God specifically create humans to be put on our planet?

The rest of my post was basically me bitching about the fact that people who believe in aliens are typically deemed crazy. As Sythan put it, without evidence how could he believe? However, I feel the same way about religion. There is no foolproof evidence, so how could you believe? I wouldn't say I believe in aliens just that there is the possibility, but Christians on this board I was visiting were saying that they couldn't believe how anyone could think aliens actually exist. Personally I think it takes just as much faith to believe in aliens as it does God. I wouldn't say you are weird, crazy or strange for believing in God or say that you are wrong, because I don't know for a fact. Its all just what people speculate to be the truth, to be honest.

Although, for the record, I see where you are coming from.

[Kitty.]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

The OP wasn't attacking your beliefs. The OP was essentially saying, if Christians have blind faith in god, do they have blind faith in alien existence? Both have no solid evidence so both are similar on those 2 accounts. It could be phrased toward atheists by saying if you have no faith in god, do you believe in aliens because neither have any evidence and are speculated? That's not an attack on your belief. Look through this part of the forum, you'll find posts that resemble attacks on your belief.

I never said that the OP was attacking my beliefs. I know what an attack on beliefs looks like. Trust me.
I was responding to this:

Originally Posted by ball&chain

It just surprised me that for people who hold so much faith in the tales of the bible, they could find the thought of alien life preposterous. Maybe because it was partially attacking what they so wholeheartedly believe in?

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

It's ironic how you're supporting the OP by saying this. The OP was saying Christians read a book and have blind faith its contents are true, and here you are saying you read a book on aliens and say its contents are likely true. I can see the argument it may not be blind faith in that, however, your father has blind faith in both and some of the blind faith in aliens came from reading a book.

I see more proof of God than aliens, but that doesn't mean that I rule aliens out.

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

Humans are animals biologically and the biological definition is the only one used when referring to taxonomy.

I'm talking from a Biblical perspective.

[BDF]

People will by instinct fight any attempts by others to challenge their beliefs. They'l exagerate, perhaps not even intentionally, their disagreement with someone else's views because of it. It's not necessarily personal because it is just an instinct. It's immature in my opinion... since it takes some growing up to realise that you aren't always right about everything and others may have a valid point.

From a logical perspective I don't think god exists in reality, only in people's minds. It is that common belief that brings people together that defines god in his (or her) different forms, giving rise to different religions, excluding those which worship the devil by definition, although the devil exists in people's minds as much as god does. But to me it's the same god for everyone, just interpreted differently.

Same applies to aliens. Untill there is solid irrefutable evidence that they do exist in reality, then they don't. They'l only exist in people's minds who believe they exist but in fact don't. How can anyone claim something exists if there is no solid evidence? Building the pyramids may have seemed unachievable all those millenia ago, therefore "alliens" must have helped us out. That's bull lol. More research will show that egyptians had very advanced construction technologies compared to other civilisations of their age, not to mention masses of slaves where used to achieve this.

I would never say that god doesn't exist, no arguments. Or that aliens exist no arguments. Perhaps alliens are the god? Maybe we're just some sick experiment and they are coming in 2012 to put an end to it. There's no evidence of it, but who's to say it's impossible?

[Jocelyn.]

Originally Posted by BDF

People will by instinct fight any attempts by others to challenge their beliefs. They'l exagerate, perhaps not even intentionally, their disagreement with someone else's views because of it. It's not necessarily personal because it is just an instinct. It's immature in my opinion... since it takes some growing up to realise that you aren't always right about everything and others may have a valid point.

From a logical perspective I don't think god exists in reality, only in people's minds. It is that common belief that brings people together that defines god in his (or her) different forms, giving rise to different religions, excluding those which worship the devil by definition, although the devil exists in people's minds as much as god does. But to me it's the same god for everyone, just interpreted differently.

Same applies to aliens. Untill there is solid irrefutable evidence that they do exist in reality, then they don't. They'l only exist in people's minds who believe they exist but in fact don't. How can anyone claim something exists if there is no solid evidence? Building the pyramids may have seemed unachievable all those millenia ago, therefore "alliens" must have helped us out. That's bull lol. More research will show that egyptians had very advanced construction technologies compared to other civilisations of their age, not to mention masses of slaves where used to achieve this.

I would never say that god doesn't exist, no arguments. Or that aliens exist no arguments. Perhaps alliens are the god? Maybe we're just some sick experiment and they are coming in 2012 to put an end to it. There's no evidence of it, but who's to say it's impossible?

Thanks for your input. I agree 100%.

I guess my OP was pretty much venting my frustration towards the fact that there being a God seems rational to most when aliens existing does not. Of course when you devote yourself to something such as Christianity and you think your beliefs are the absolute truth, someone believing in aliens would seem ridiculous. I was just trying to say that God existing seems just as ridiculous to me. Like you said, we have no substantial proof of either, so for people to be arguing over it seemed silly.

I know my post was basically going no where, and I could already predict the kind of responses it was going to get... I just felt the need to say it.

No one knows for a fact how we came into existence, and maybe never will. So seeing post regarding that in the thread I mentioned made me need to come on here and rant lol.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Fierce

I never said that the OP was attacking my beliefs. I know what an attack on beliefs looks like. Trust me.
I was responding to this:

I hope you're not saying that quoted part from the OP was what you considered an attack on your beliefs.

Originally Posted by Fierce

I'm talking from a Biblical perspective.

That's the problem, animals are defined biologically. You can say a human is not an animal but that is a biological reference, one which is incorrect. Anyway, I'll concede there's no point in harping further about this point with you.

[JKmadu619]

Beliving in something form faith and being gulible are completely different, you understand that right?

Just because I believe in the bible doesn't really mean I believe in aliens (I kind of do, but beside the point.) bigfoot, the ghost of Elvis, or the fact that ShamWOW really gets you to say "WOW" everytime.

Using your logic, you don't believe in religion, why do you believe in gravity? It's all just theories, nothing proven for sure.

Because I believe in religion doesn't mean I have to believe in every idea there is. Just because you have no faith in religion doesn't really mean you don't have passion or believe in anything, does it?

It really is kind of a silly question to ask if you look at it like that, correct?

- Justin

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Beliving in something form faith and being gulible are completely different, you understand that right?

One could argue they both are involved in religious beliefs. For example, there are many "sightings" of people seeing Jesus in a chicken nugget, glass, wall, etc... when it's not actually there. It's at best an ambiguous blob naturally or artificially there.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

ShamWOW really gets you to say "WOW" everytime.

Cant saw Shamwow without saying "wow", read the name of it LOL.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Using your logic, you don't believe in religion, why do you believe in gravity? It's all just theories, nothing proven for sure.

Thank you for showing you know jackshit about science. Gravity is a law and a theory. In other words, gravity is physically observable, hence scientific law. It's also a scientific theory in that it can account for the patterns observed.
In science, nothing is fully "proven", as theories are meant to be falsifiable. This is the basic premise of science. Those who believe in gravity understand the premises of science, you don't understand them. I thought at 13 years of age you have to take science courses? Anytime someone uses "it's all theories not proven" indicates they haven't got a clue about science.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Because I believe in religion doesn't mean I have to believe in every idea there is. Just because you have no faith in religion doesn't really mean you don't have passion or believe in anything, does it?

Passion and faith aren't the same. I believe there is religious faith and then there is faith for different things. For example, I have faith ghosts are nonsense and exist only in children stories and Hollywood movies.

[JKmadu619]

I was wondering how long it would be until someone pointed out I am 13 and therefore mentally weaker than the holier-than-thou older people.

In any event the fact I believe in christ does not mean I must believe in every far fetched idea out there. Just as you are not a pessimist who believe in nothing at all due to the fact you do not believe in the bible.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I was wondering how long it would be until someone pointed out I am 13 and therefore mentally weaker than the holier-than-thou older people.

The point was not to say that, rather my point was at your age you're learning the basic premises of science in school, so why do you not show that knowledge on here? I think of 3 possible reasons. First, you're failing your science course miserably at school. Second, your school doesn't offer a science class. Third, you're passing your science course but willfully ignore it. I don't care enough if those 3 possibilities are wrong and you post your answer because you're still ignorant to science. Then again, you may have not learned much because you're not even in high-school yet.

[JKmadu619]

Actually in my disctrict I am in highschool. My science average is 87% as of now, and to be honest although the facts were not completely honest you must admit the basic idea was still there. Just because something cannot be completely proved does not really mean it's completely false either.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Just because something cannot be completely proved does not really mean it's completely false either.

You're getting closer to saying the premise of science but are still failing by using the word "proved". Although researchers would love to show something is factual, they cant so they formulate theories that are falsifiable but provide as much evidence and scientific arguments as possible so as to make the theory extremely strong. It's still falsifiable, such as the theory of evolution, although some scientists will say it's "factual" because nothing has been proposed that can either refute it or provide an alternative explanation.

[Kitty.]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

I hope you're not saying that quoted part from the OP was what you considered an attack on your beliefs.

No, the OP said that she thinks that maybe Christians don't believe in aliens because they may feel that the existence of aliens is attacking their beliefs.

I was saying that as a Christian, whether or not aliens exist do no attack my beliefs.

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

That's the problem, animals are defined biologically. You can say a human is not an animal but that is a biological reference, one which is incorrect. Anyway, I'll concede there's no point in harping further about this point with you.

They are animals biologically, but spiritually, humans have a soul and animals do not.

[MichWolverineFreak]

I watched ancient aliens too,and it seemed credible at first, but then it just sounded stupid. I believe in aliens, but I dont think theres technology anywhere that could transport aliens so fast to earth. I think aliens are out there but their probably like some kind of animal without major intellegence.