Triggering: Answered Prayers or Personal Perspective?

[Noctis]

I've been wanting to get this thought that's been bugging me ever since I watched that one YouTube video of a girl who believes the earthquake in Japan was because God answered her prayers. Of course, people believed she was completely insane. Even fellow Christians thought she was nuts. However, I didn't think so. Not saying I agree with her, just that I don't think she's any less sane than any other believer. Merely less tolerant of others who don't share her beliefs.

I say this because it is my firm belief that the method with which she arrived at her conclusion was no less different than what you would call a "normal" believer. It was merely the contents of her prayer and perceived "answer" that was different. If she made a video of how she met up with an old friend from elementary because she prayed for it, I would bet real money that absolutely nobody would think she's a little "off", even if she included her previous multiple references to "my brothers and sisters" and "get on your knees and just pray".

The next thing that's been bouncing around my head is simply a question of cause and effect.

Consider this:
1) It is Monday.
2) A weather forecast predicts that there will be sunny skies on Tuesday.
3) You pray to God that there will be good weather tomorrow.
4) It is Tuesday.
5) The skies are bright and sunny with no hint of rain.

Did God answer your prayer just for you, or was it going to happen regardless?

A better comparison would be to think back on your day just now, pick an event that occurred which you would consider positive in nature, but not something you prayed for(say you found a dollar). Now, hypothetically speaking, assuming that you did pray for it to happen, would it have been because God answered your prayers?

Another thing bugging me about answered prayers is the "will" of other people. If you and your friend had a very heated spat and were on bad terms for a while, but you prayed to God for things to get better, and you two made up, did God just twist the will of your friend and made him/her do something that he/she would not naturally have done, thus nullifying free will?

This next point has more to do with the previously mentioned "crazy girl" than anything else. But what if some Hinduist somewhere was also praying for the same thing? What makes it more likely to be your "God" than some other? Seems to me that it could just as easily have been Zeus, even though he's particularly lacking in followers nowadays. Though the question is equally valid for a Wiccan who prayed for a sunny day at the exact same time someone else prayed to God for a sunny day.


I bring these things up because it seems as though people have forgotten that they are but mere men.

[Sythan]

We religious folk are religious for a reason. I am more of a skeptic than most people think, I wouldn't have chosen this faith, or any for that matter, if I wasn't shown something that proved it could possibly exist.

My faith in the Gods is certainly not blind, but if you prayed for a sunny day and it happened, I doubt it was a God or Goddess that did it.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by Noctis

Did God answer your prayer just for you, or was it going to happen regardless?

Depends. We can't really look at alternative views, because what would have happened regardless wouldn't have happened because even in an alternate universe I still would have prayed the same prayer because I'm the same person. And if God is unchanging (as I believe), then God would have decreed the prayer, and decreed to answer the prayer the same so either way what happened happened because God determined it to happen that way. But if I had to answer, I would say it would have happened that way regardless because despite my prayer God's will would have happened so the answering of my prayer isn't even dependent on me praying, but on God.

Originally Posted by Noctis

Another thing bugging me about answered prayers is the "will" of other people. If you and your friend had a very heated spat and were on bad terms for a while, but you prayed to God for things to get better, and you two made up, did God just twist the will of your friend and made him/her do something that he/she would not naturally have done, thus nullifying free will?

I don't believe in freewill, nor accept it as philosophically possible, nor biologically possible. Thus even if we removed God from the equation, what freewill are you speaking of? And if God determines what is natural, your friends will would be the natural will, thus however they respond, whether positive or negative, wasn't free, but decreed. And if decreed, it would not happen in any other fashion, alternatively.

Originally Posted by Noctis

This next point has more to do with the previously mentioned "crazy girl" than anything else. But what if some Hinduist somewhere was also praying for the same thing? What makes it more likely to be your "God" than some other? Seems to me that it could just as easily have been Zeus, even though he's particularly lacking in followers nowadays. Though the question is equally valid for a Wiccan who prayed for a sunny day at the exact same time someone else prayed to God for a sunny day.

Or what about one man praying for an Earthquake in Japan, and another praying that there won't be an Earthquake in Japan, to the same God?

Originally Posted by Noctis

I bring these things up because it seems as though people have forgotten that they are but mere men.

Huh? Come again? If people forgotten they were mere men, they wouldn't be praying. Though I do agree most people think rather highly of themselves. However, I could easily as argue, it seems as though people stop praying because they have forgetting they are but mere men. I don't understand your point with this last quote as it works both ways. But the argument would be as ridiculous as me claiming to be as wise as a doctor (God) because I asked (prayed to) a doctor (God) to fix (answer) my (prayer) broken arm. Also, your questions seem to depend on man having freewill, which, any honest reader of the Bible would deny. Though I know this isn't directly namely as Abrahamic followers, but God/gods in general. Do I make pleas to God? Yeah. Do I expect a positive answer? Yeah. Do I get a positive answer everytime? No. Do I care? Sometimes, I wish I could make God obey my prayers, but it is as you say, I'm a mere man, which is why I pray, despite knowing that what happens is God's will. Have I experienced things that are beyond explanation? Yes. Do I believe it was dependent on the prayers? No. I believe it was dependent on God who decreed for the prayers and decreed to answer the prayer in the way He did and rejoice in the answer to the prayer either way. Which I'm assuming begs the question "Why pray?" Well, I pray because Jesus did, because the Apostles did, because the Old Testament people do. Jesus even prayed that if it be possible for His cup to pass (that He would not have to be rejected by the Father Spiritually, or crucified physically), then finished with His prayer, "Yet not as I will, but Your will be done." And that's my perspective.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by mewithYou

But if I had to answer, I would say it would have happened that way regardless because despite my prayer God's will would have happened so the answering of my prayer isn't even dependent on me praying, but on God.
...
Well, I pray because Jesus did, because the Apostles did, because the Old Testament people do.

If it's entirely dependent on god, that begs the question, why pray in the first place if the events will happen regardless of what you do? Your answer is a bit of an unusual one in that you say you pray because people in the Old Testament pray. If people prayed for something and god granted it (or god did it regardless if they prayed), that action could be a sinful one. In return, people pray for forgiveness from god. In other words, god causes a person to do a sinful action and then forgives them? It seems redundant to forgive them given the fact Jesus died for people's sins, as outlined in the New Testament.

My argument is, if you pray for forgiveness, is that not redundant? Would god forgive your sins despite Jesus' sacrifice?

Originally Posted by mewithYou

I don't believe in freewill, nor accept it as philosophically possible, nor biologically possible.

I'm not going to argue against the idea that in the bible there is no freewill because in that context, I happen to agree with you. However, I'm puzzled by how freewill could be biologically possible/impossible versus philosophically possible/impossible. To me, I always viewed it purely from a philosophical perspective and I thought many did as well, so I'm interested in the biological perspective you mention as it plays into freewill (or lack thereof).

Originally Posted by mewithYou

Huh? Come again? If people forgotten they were mere men, they wouldn't be praying. Though I do agree most people think rather highly of themselves.

A Christian would think so highly of themselves they wouldn't pray for something they needed? That seems very odd, at least if it were a devout Christian.