Question for Christians

[Xujhan]

If it could be conclusively shown that there was no prominent religious leader named Jesus of Nazareth in the decades after ~0 CE - in short that Jesus never lived - how would that impact your beliefs?

[John 6:29]

Fletcher,

I assume you already know my answer, which is: Yes, I would still be a Christian. Please note that this may get a little preachy, but I'll try not to be. Though I cannot excuse myself for the length. So, if you don't read it all, that's fine. I don't expect you to.

Prior to being a Christian (which was for about 21 years), I did not believe because I didn't know. That is, my beliefs, or lack thereof, were swayed by evidence. At the time, I was considering being a Buddhist for the sole reason that I wanted to be religious, I wanted to be peaceable, and I didn't know where to go. I wanted to reform, I wanted to be a "good" person. Yet, I didn't know what a good person was. I thought I was relatively moral, but I wanted to be better, and I didn't know what God existed, if any, I didn't even know much about Christ or the Bible.

As time progressed, I began to be interested in the Bible because of someone I knew who was a Christian. I saw that he had what I was looking for. He was a loving guy and at peace with everyone. He seemed to me, someone who knew God, again, if there was one to my mind. I mean, this guy, he ate out of trashcans because he felt guilty that people were dying of starvation, while we sit here and throw away food. All the while, he admitted that while he did this, he was being self-righteous, and had a feigned-humility. He doesn't think himself this way, but he is very humble.

At any rate, this began my search into Christianity. The more I knew about Christianity though, the less I believed. I do not believe my conversion is beyond psychological explanation, but paradoxically, I fervently believe that my beliefs about God and in Christ are because of God's sovereign election. I do not for an instant believe I chose to believe in Christ for salvation. I do not believe I even believe in His existence because I chose to, or because of evidence. I believe that I believe because God caused me to believe.

In fact, my conversion, I didn't even make a choice, not a conscious one anyways. All of a sudden I just went from unbelieving, to believing. It was revealed to my conscious mind that I trusted Christ for salvation. I did nothing. I didn't even want to believe, but all of a sudden I believed. And at this point, I realized that despite what evidence said, I believed Christ chose me before the foundations of the world. This realization was humbling, and made me grateful. How could a God, whom I sinned against, willfully, and deliberately, a God I even wish didn't exist, choose me to believe. Choose me to be with Him. He loved me. And I realized this passively. I wasn't even dwelling on the Bible.

So, my explanation that I believe, is that I believe because Christ caused me to believe. Thus, even if Christ had not existed on this world, or in this lifetime, I would still believe, because I believe He chose me. I don't believe because I chose to believe. Therefore, I would still believe -- assuming this is true. Despite this, I do not really find evidence towards Christ sways me either way as it used to. Nor do I believe there is much conclusive evidence for Christ being a predominate leader, just a person who existed. As to what He did, well, that's debatable.

My rationale belief, is that perhaps my subconscious already believed in Him, and my preconscious could have caused doubts and even hate to be in my conscious mind. Then, as the subconscious usually does, passively works a belief, or an idea, into your conscious mind. Sure, I'll accept that as plausible. But my certainty is beyond explanation that I've had towards anything else. It surpasses all knowledge. I cannot even put into words how certain I am.

All the same, I do not believe the Bible calls us to believe in Christ as person, but to trust in Him for salvation. That is, Christ told people who knew He existed to believe in Him, so it wasn't a call to believe in His existence, but to believe on Him for salvation.

So, yes, I would still believe because I believe Christ chose me to believe. If not this, my subconscious caused me to believe, and these two aside, I don't really believe anyone has a choice to believe what they believe. Rather, they just believe. I do think evidence can sway our beliefs, but I do not believe our choices are a conscious choice. For example, I believe that you are honest in your posts. That's not a choice I've made, I just do. However, if you begin to lie, I will have reason to doubt, but I still will not choose to disbelieve in you, rather, it will progressively work to that point of disbelief, not by my choice.

[MichWolverineFreak]

I only put yes because Id be Jewish because Id still believe in God. We cant really be Christian if Jesus never lived, wed be waiting for him.

[dr2005]

I'll tackle two questions arising from this, because I differentiate between my being a Christian and my believing in the existence of God. So, here goes:

Would I still be a Christian? Probably not, no. As a freestanding religion as opposed to a moral story, Christianity does stand or fall based on its claim that Jesus was a real person who preached in Israel, was crucified and then rose from the dead because he was actually the Son of God. Take that away and there's not a lot left to work with. I'd still follow the moral aspects of love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek and the importance of love and compassion to all because they're good morals anyway, but there wouldn't be much else to identify with.

Would I still believe in God? Yes. My belief in God is not simply because I'm Christian, but because I've weighed up the philosophical arguments for and against and made my decision based on that. As such, the demise of Christianity would not change that.