Doubting Atheism..?

[ICantCreateACoolUsername]

If you're going to read this, read to the end... I know it's unimportant and no one really cares but.. uh... yeah

I sometimes wonder if it would be possible for me to forgo my atheism; just to see if my natural sense of gullibility would accept it. It's really stupid, isn't it? Other times I get near the point of almost asking myself to believe in such fairy-tales to feel that sense of comfortable ignorance, which I once had. Maybe I am genetically susceptible to belief in God... or maybe it's because I once believed in god...
If I could make myself fully and totally believe in a god by the words said out loud: "I will believe in god", without any social reproach or distaste by fellow atheistic friends, I wonder if I would do it. Could I actually bring myself to ever cross that boundary?
Certainly, it would be easier to do that... just for that sensation of comfort which goes along with it. I actually do sometimes want to believe in things like "destiny", so that I wouldn't have to fear any sort of dangerous "spontaneity" of life and I could console myself over all the bad things that have been happening to me.
The more I thought about if I could ever, or even if I wanted to, get myself to believe in God... the more unease I grew. I think that I understand now that I could never go along with the decision. Morally, self-acceptably, and in regards to my own emotional-strength, I would never cross that line to make myself believe in God. God is a vindictive, malicious, homophobic, egotistical, ignorant, unacceptable bully-- and I think I would rather worship the devil before I could worship anything as crude and evil as him. I also cannot accept myself to believe in God because of its rational inconsistency; even more than that... I can't imagine living a life believing in creationism (it's as inaccurate as holocaust denial!). The point is, I would never be able to squander my intellectual curiosity or my sense of awe when I think of how lucky I am to be here.
I soon came to the revelation that I could never believe in god when I was talking with one of my close friends, who I didn't know was religious. I was complaining and, due to a lack of things to talk about, I said: "So, how do you feel about evolution?"
.... She asked me what evolution is, and I've never laughed so hard before. Once I explained to her what it was, she said: "That's so stupid! Doesn't everybody know about Adam and Eve??!".... right then I knew that she probably didn't have a considerable amount of brain cells.

[Sythan]

Study all kinds of religions, not just the mainstream ones. Studying the religions of different cultures around the world may lead you to find one you like.

The Christian God is the one you described, I've met countless people who seemed to believe the only God out there was Christian. Mine certainly is not not, so search for your own.

[~Mr. Self Destruct~]

I'm a firm atheist, but I would encourage you to follow anything that improves your quality of life. Once you have acheived such, you can then look at the arguments for and against a deity, taking into consideration what works for YOU best, and make a further decision.
Or you can be like me and try to find hapiness in atheism. :P
I succeeded in the latter, but of course it's your choice to accomplish what you think is best.

[Xujhan]

I think that religion is not even the comfort you think it to be (wrongness entirely aside). I've never experienced religious people, as a group, to be any happier or more comforted than atheists. If anything, I would say that religion tends to make a person more afraid of death. So for what comfort it's worth I don't think we're missing anything by not buying in to superstition, not even comfort.

[John 6:29]

You sound like you believe in Richard Dawkins, not atheism. I've heard much of what you said quoted directly from Dawkins himself.

I don't mean to come off rude, I don't intend to, I'm just simply stating what I notice. It's ironic because I was just talking to my friend about this. I like Dawkins, I really do, as I Christian, I find him humorous, and intelligent. However, I find that his philosophy is terrible. He's just as guilty as using bad philosophical arguments as Christian appologetics.

At any rate, you have it wrong.

The god you disbelieve in is perhaps a "vindictive, malicious, homophobic, egotistical, ignorant, unacceptable bully," however, this does not define God. In fact, let me ask you, how can you even ascribe attributes to something you don't believe in? Something that is non-existent? How to you describe it? You can't. So, it doesn't even make logical sense to ascribe those to Him.

If your talking about the Bible, well, almost everything you've attributed to him can be refuted with an open mind and any amount of thought. However, I do not doubt that there can be moral ambiguity in the ethics of God, I do not deny this at all. It's been a question arisen in Christianity many times, and is still debated in Christianity.

As far as creationism goes, I am a creationist. However, this does not mean I deny the possibility, or even the plausibility of evolution. I am open to the idea. In fact, I take the stance that I don't know. Why? Well, I believe evolution is relatively a fact, however, I, like most people, am a layman on the subject. I am not in a lab studying it 24/7, I know only basic information about it. Not enough to take a stand on it. I believe that just accepting evolution because your textbook tells you to is just as ignorant as the Christians who believe the Bible just because it says so. I believe that whatever you read has to be related to the world, or it demonstrates the erroneousness of it. People think it's ignorant to deny the Genesis account of creation, however, I don't. Why? Because biblically speaking, the Genesis account of creation is debatable at best. That is, regarding what is written, what is traditionally told about it, is not accurate at all. Secondly, the Genesis account of creation had to of been explained by visions. Moses was not around when the world was created, so he wrote what he saw. It's much like a prophetic book, it's very visual, it is not literal, and it's not some ambiguous task to understand what is literal in the Bible and what isn't. It's rather ambiguous to break a tradition. Think of the reformation alone.

But forget me, there are plenty of theistic evolutionist, deistic evolutionists, etc. God and evolution aren't opposed to each other, which truly, is just a ignorant belief. God does not disprove evolution, and evolution does not disprove God. Evolution only explains the origin of life, but it does not explain the origin of itself. That is, what caused evolution. Of course, there are other theories for this, and eventually, we get back to the Big Bang, which I do accept as a Christian. Rather, my belief simplified is that no matter how simple the first piece of matter was, it had to get there some how, and whatever created that matter, had to be created, and so on and so forth. So, this leaves with the question, "Who created God." Which I believe is a valid question, however, I do not believe God needs a Creator if God is the Author of Creation. Rather, no matter how you look at it, you need an Infinite explanation whether you are atheist or a theist or a deist. And my explanation of the infinite is God. Not because it's the simple way out, but because it is the only rational explanation to my mind. I cannot believe that nothing existed, then something. That is, something had to of created the particles necessary to create the Big Bang. I don't find it logically consistent to just say, "It always was." But then again, the argument works both ways. So, we arrive at something eternal, and I believe that a Creator best explains the eternalities, even though He has to be just as complex as whatever your explanation is.

[ICantCreateACoolUsername]

Originally Posted by John 6:29

You sound like you believe in Richard Dawkins, not atheism. I've heard much of what you said quoted directly from Dawkins himself.

I don't mean to come off rude, I don't intend to, I'm just simply stating what I notice. It's ironic because I was just talking to my friend about this. I like Dawkins, I really do, as I Christian, I find him humorous, and intelligent. However, I find that his philosophy is terrible. He's just as guilty as using bad philosophical arguments as Christian appologetics.

At any rate, you have it wrong.

The god you disbelieve in is perhaps a "vindictive, malicious, homophobic, egotistical, ignorant, unacceptable bully," however, this does not define God. In fact, let me ask you, how can you even ascribe attributes to something you don't believe in? Something that is non-existent? How to you describe it? You can't. So, it doesn't even make logical sense to ascribe those to Him.

I can say that God is evil.

Here's why: I can say that Bowser, from the Mario video games, is evil. Would you refute that statement? Even though he is purely fictional, you can ascribe those characteristics to him because countlessly he has kidnapped Peach.
The same thing goes for any fictional character from a book; they aren't real... but they have personality traits. The same thing applies to God; I can state that he is evil because of prior (fictional) actions which have directed me to that conclusion (*cough* flooding the world and killing countless people *coughcough)

So, basically you are telling me that when you read a book with an antagonist character, you say that "well, they don't have any personality... since they aren't real"? That, my good sir, does not make any sense.

[ICantCreateACoolUsername]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

I think that religion is not even the comfort you think it to be (wrongness entirely aside). I've never experienced religious people, as a group, to be any happier or more comforted than atheists. If anything, I would say that religion tends to make a person more afraid of death. So for what comfort it's worth I don't think we're missing anything by not buying in to superstition, not even comfort.

Since I have OCD it would be comforting for me to believe that "something is watching out for me." I'm about 99.999999999% sure that there is no god, and even more sure that there isn't a god as described in the bible, but I was wondering that... if I could... I would make myself believe in god for that small comfort.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by John 6:29

You sound like you believe in Richard Dawkins, not atheism. I've heard much of what you said quoted directly from Dawkins himself.

I don't mean to come off rude, I don't intend to, I'm just simply stating what I notice. It's ironic because I was just talking to my friend about this. I like Dawkins, I really do, as I Christian, I find him humorous, and intelligent. However, I find that his philosophy is terrible. He's just as guilty as using bad philosophical arguments as Christian appologetics.

At any rate, you have it wrong.

The god you disbelieve in is perhaps a "vindictive, malicious, homophobic, egotistical, ignorant, unacceptable bully," however, this does not define God. In fact, let me ask you, how can you even ascribe attributes to something you don't believe in? Something that is non-existent? How to you describe it? You can't. So, it doesn't even make logical sense to ascribe those to Him.

I find it hilarious that you accuse Dawkins of using bad arguments and then immediately use a terrible one yourself. As the OP already pointed out, analyzing fictional characters is in no way irrational.

Originally Posted by ICantCreateACoolUsername

Since I have OCD it would be comforting for me to believe that "something is watching out for me." I'm about 99.999999999% sure that there is no god, and even more sure that there isn't a god as described in the bible, but I was wondering that... if I could... I would make myself believe in god for that small comfort.

Where would the comfort be? Our universe is indistinguisable from a godless one even if a god does happen to exist. One glance at the world should be enough to demonstrate that if a god does exist, belief in his existence won't alter your fortunes at all. Life can be unforgiving whether or not a god exists.

[dr2005]

Originally Posted by ICantCreateACoolUsername

The more I thought about if I could ever, or even if I wanted to, get myself to believe in God... the more unease I grew. I think that I understand now that I could never go along with the decision. Morally, self-acceptably, and in regards to my own emotional-strength, I would never cross that line to make myself believe in God. God is a vindictive, malicious, homophobic, egotistical, ignorant, unacceptable bully-- and I think I would rather worship the devil before I could worship anything as crude and evil as him.

The first question you should ask, I would say, is what forms your basis that God - assuming that He exists - possesses those characteristics. That certainly doesn't fit with my concept of God, nor of that I have experienced through my beliefs as a Christian - it sounds more like a stereotype based on the Westboro Baptist Church's preaching. There are any number of different theories and beliefs about both the existence of God and what qualities such a God would possess, and if you seek to reject the existence of God on the grounds you describe above you need to be able to justify your belief that those are God's traits. Otherwise, it would be like me arguing against atheism by reference to Joseph Stalin - it's just not tenable. So my first suggestion would be to consider why you feel such traits are a necessary requirement of God, because that will affect your thought processes from that point onwards.

Originally Posted by ICantCreateACoolUsername

I also cannot accept myself to believe in God because of its rational inconsistency; even more than that... I can't imagine living a life believing in creationism (it's as inaccurate as holocaust denial!). The point is, I would never be able to squander my intellectual curiosity or my sense of awe when I think of how lucky I am to be here.

Creationism is by no means widely accepted outside of the Bible Belt (and even within it's highly controversial), and there is no requirement for suspension of intellectual curiosity in having religious belief. Sir Isaac Newton was both a Christian and a highly curious individual, and the Vatican has its own observatory which conducts research on the nature of the cosmos and has (if memory serves me correctly) contributed to some new discoveries as well. Similarly, the Arabic world practically invented the numerical system that the West utilises today and other areas of mathematics and medicine in addition.

All of the above being said, none of it should be taken as encouragement that you should believe in God - that decision is yours to make and yours alone, and you are the only person capable of deciding what evidence you find credible or how well it fits in with your life philosophy. All I would say is that, as with all things in life, keep an open mind and do your research. On the wider question of comfort, again that depends entirely on what view of God you have. Based on your earlier concept, I wouldn't imagine that would provide much comfort at all.

[Eyes on Fire-Xx]

You could study diffrent religions, of corse. Many don't think of god as half of what you say. Personaly, I can't put a lable behind what I belive, but I do belive in somthing. dosn't mean Im ignorant, Im very skeptical of everything and scince and reson explain it most of the time.... but for me, when you get down to the end of the line, God is more of the answear to why when others would say coincedence or just because. -why- did we evolve into humans, -why- was life brought to earth by whatever means it arrived, why did someone survive a one in a million chance...Because of god. Try studing what you loath so much, you might find somthing that more fitting to you then you might think and knowlage never hurts, even if you think it's compleat and utter trash. Or you might find that athiesm is better for you. Research research research.... In anycase, good luck with whatever you choose. ^^

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

I find it hilarious that you accuse Dawkins of using bad arguments and then immediately use a terrible one yourself. As the OP already pointed out, analyzing fictional characters is in no way irrational.

You both completely missed my point. Your analyzing a fictional character without giving a definition to that fictional character. It's like if I said, "Charlie is an idiot." Maybe some people here know a Charlie who is an idiot, but it's probably not the Charlie that I am referencing. So, simply giving attributes to a god isn't descriptive enough to determine what god he is talking about, because the real God may be nothing like that description. I'm not even implying that the Abrahamic God is the real God, I'm simply stating that you cannot attribute something without telling us who you're talking about. As Dawkins says, "Everyone is an atheist... no one believes in Zeus or Thor." Thus it hinges on knowing what God you're talking about before you give attributes, because the god you may be applying attributes to, might not even be God.

[VampirePrincess]

I'm a Satanist (LaVeyan/Atheistic) and I am a believer in us being our own gods. We create them, and if we worship God we are worshipping the man who first created the idea of one. Why worship someone else when you can worship yourself, is what my religion teaches. I choose not to see this as I am a god, but if I feel the need to worship, make up some awesome god that only I know about. It works for me, so who knows - maybe something like that could work for you. You could worship this awesome god with a name of your choosing that isn't so evil and does believe in evolution. *shrug* Just a suggestion, if you're feeling doubtful over your choices. I believe in all the things atheists believe in (with additions, of course, otherwise I would have just stayed an atheist), and I could never bring myself to believe in the notion of God either, despite being raised Catholic. Sometimes I want to believe, but my scientific and logical mind cannot handle that. Once I realized that, life got a bit easier to deal with.

I had to find what works for me - the same thing may not work for you. I encourage you to explore many options until you find something you feel comfortable with Don't let the opinions of others drag you down. you are your own person - do what you want.