Rapture...

[Cosmo]

I was reading and thinking about this and I was wondering..

Why is it that Christians who believe the Rapture has a specific date are instantly crazy, and yet the rest of Christianity who believe there is no set date are suddenly totally reasonable people? It doesn't make sense! They're both equally crazy!

[Angel]

Really? What is the point of this post?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Angel

Really? What is the point of this post?

Maybe you didn't read my post properly. I wanted to know why it was unreasonable to believe that the Rapture has a set date, yet totally reasonable to believe it'll happen but we don't know when.

[Jocelyn.]

The almighty and completely factual bible says we won't know when, so that makes people who think they can do something deemed impossible by the bible "crazy."

Of course to everyone on the outside looking in it seems ridiculous, but to Christians who believe the bible is the word of god it makes complete sense. (That no one can possibly know when the rapture will be)

I do kind of have to agree with Angel though... you know the answer to this question, and you can pretty well guess how people are going to respond. I think you're just attempting to get people riled up

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by ball&chain

The almighty and completely factual bible says we won't know when, so that makes people who think they can do some deemed impossible "crazy."

Of course to everyone on the outside looking in it seems ridiculous, but to Christians who believe the bible is the word of god it makes complete sense.

I do kind of have to agree with Angel though... you know the answer to this question, and you can pretty well guess how people are going to respond. I think you're just attempting to get people riled up

1) I don't know the answer, hence the asking.
2) I'm not attempting to 'rile people up', I'm here for a debate on whether or not they are crazy. I don't believe they're crazy, at most wrong. The only difference between those Christians and a regular Christian is that they read the Bible in such a way that they believe there is a date. I don't believe that's any more crazy than believing that the man in the sky will judge everybody and damn all non-believers, and I was hoping for a debate on it.

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by ball&chain

The almighty and completely factual bible says we won't know when, so that makes people who think they can do some deemed impossible "crazy."

The completely factual bible?

Originally Posted by ball&chain

Of course to everyone on the outside looking in it seems ridiculous, but to Christians who believe the bible is the word of god it makes complete sense.

Everyone thinks these people are crazy even christians. Whether the rapture is real or not announcing it will arrive on a specific date is preposterous.

[Jocelyn.]

Originally Posted by Sapphire_Wings

The completely factual bible?



Everyone thinks these people are crazy even christians. Whether the rapture is real or not announcing it will arrive on a specific date is preposterous.

I was being sarcastic.

Not to mention your reiterating what I just said. Of course normal Christians think these people are crazy. I just said most Christians are aware of the fact that the bible says that no one knows when the rapture will happen.

[John 6:29]

They're labeled as crazy among other Christians because Christ stated that no one knows when it will happen, that He will come like a thief in the night. Thus, if someone professes to be a Christian, how do they directly ignore the wisdom of Christ?

[JKmadu619]

John 6:29: Win.

- Justin

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by John 6:29

They're labeled as crazy among other Christians because Christ stated that no one knows when it will happen, that He will come like a thief in the night. Thus, if someone professes to be a Christian, how do they directly ignore the wisdom of Christ?

You'd be amazed how easy it is.

[Snufkin]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

You'd be amazed how easy it is.

Brilliant.

And the way that these "crazy Christians" figured out that the Rapture was to be last week was insane. So much maths involved. I know God is meant to be amazing and everything, but I don't think even He would put hidden mathematical equations as to when the end of the world would arrive in The Bible.

[Cosmo]

I'm sure they were wrong, and I'm sure that they pulled stuff out of their asses but let's think about this:

You both believe the same (IMO) crazy stuff
The only difference is that they put a date on it.

Suddenly, they're ridiculous, they're crazy, they're making looking Christians look bad - it just seems really almost hypocritical.

[Snufkin]

The Westboro Baptist Church are crazy for the same reason. They're taking the teachings of the Bible and warping them into their own twisted views. This guy went against the teaching that the Rapture will come, but only God knows when.

Taking a teaching of the Bible and then twisting and/or ignoring it is probably seen as crazy in some communities. Infact I'm sure it's probably worthy of a hanging in some communities.

[John 6:29]

I'm not amazed at it, I do it daily, hence why I don't say anything against them. I simply stated what is the normalacy with Christians. They pick and choose what to believe and what to ignore. I did not say that I was any different, so I completely understand how easy it it. Which, is one reason I find it even difficult too consider myself a Christian. I don't even consider myself to love God, much less a Christian. However, by social standards, I am one, so I reference myself as one. But I do not consider myself to have any genuity with that claim.

[Anthropomorphic]

Originally Posted by MonsterCosmonaut

I was reading and thinking about this and I was wondering..

Why is it that Christians who believe the Rapture has a specific date are instantly crazy, and yet the rest of Christianity who believe there is no set date are suddenly totally reasonable people? It doesn't make sense! They're both equally crazy!

People who claim to know the actual date of the Rapture are contradicting their own religious source. The Bible specifically states that no one except God himself will know when the Rapture will happen.

I'm an atheist. I don't believe in the Rapture. But for Christians who say they do not know and do not care to guess when it will happen, I feel that they have more legitimacy within their own faith than self-proclaimed prophets.

[BDF]

The idea of something like a rapture still being possible makes them more "normal". I believe at some point in the future the human race will end. Probably not because of God, but something else, natural disasters for example, or Osama Bin Laden building a nuke in hell and blowing it up in the planet's core.

I can't speak with regard to Christianity, I don't really know enough about it.

[Cosmo]

Argh you're not reading my question properly....

You can draw out a list of your beliefs and their beliefs. Identical except that they put a date on it, but because of that they're now crazy and you're totally reasonable people? Sure they're wrong, but the idea that they're crazy and you're not is just pretty hypocritical IMO.

[BDF]

The belief that our race will come to an end suddenly, by some mysterious force called "Jesus" or "God" is completely unsubstantiated. The bible shouldn't be used for scientific purposes such as figuring out when or how our race might end.

Besides, being "crazy" is a point of view. If you're the normal one in a crowd of crazy people, you'd be the one seen as crazy, and they would be normal.

[Sea Monkey]

I'm Christian, in my opinion the rapture is a load of rubbish. Science can only predict what will happen to the human race, nothing or nobody can clarify the exact events that will occur as 'the end of the world'.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by MonsterCosmonaut

Argh you're not reading my question properly....

You can draw out a list of your beliefs and their beliefs. Identical except that they put a date on it, but because of that they're now crazy and you're totally reasonable people? Sure they're wrong, but the idea that they're crazy and you're not is just pretty hypocritical IMO.

Not really, because crazy is rather relative to an individual.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by Lexiloo

I'm Christian, in my opinion the rapture is a load of rubbish. Science can only predict what will happen to the human race, nothing or nobody can clarify the exact events that will occur as 'the end of the world'.

Why the emphasis on science? Certainly none was used to make this particular end-of-the-world prediction.

[Megan1]

The reason why a lot of Christians (myself included) don't like it when people set dates for the rapture, is because the bible says that nobody will know the time that it will happen. So according to the bible, nobody should be setting dates. So when people decide to set a date for the rapture and then it doesn't come true, it makes Christianity look bad because it makes it look like our predictions aren't coming true, and therefor our beliefs shouldn't be trusted. But in reality, our bible doesn't support date-setting and everything that our bible has predicted either came true, or is in the process of coming true. None of the bible's actual prophecies have been disproven.

[abigailkristen]

God clearly says in his word that no one will know the specific date or time. That he will come like a thief in the night.

Mathhew 24:36 - "But of that day and hour no one knows..."

We're not crazy, darling. That can be offending. Its our beliefs just as you have yours.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by abigailkristen

God clearly says in his word that no one will know the specific date or time. That he will come like a thief in the night.

Mathhew 24:36 - "But of that day and hour no one knows..."

We're not crazy, darling. That can be offending. Its our beliefs just as you have yours.

People are not simple beings; it is possible - I'd even say common - for non-crazy people to hold crazy beliefs. From an outside perspective, Harold Camping's beliefs are not significantly crazier than the average Christian's beliefs. Consider:

Joe: "I know in my heart that the day is nigh when the dark god Cthulhu will awaken and ravage the world."

Jeff: "I know in my heart that the day is nigh when the dark god Cthulhu will awaken and ravage the world. In fact, it will happen next Sunday."

Whether the dark god Cthulhu is purported to have said that no one will be able to predict the day when he will awaken and ravage the word doesn't have any real bearing on how ridiculous those claims are.

I'd also like to address the point of offense. If someone personally attacks you, then by all means feel free to take offense. That's only fair. If someone attacks your ideas though - if they criticize them, ridicule them, or disprove them - you should not take offense to that. "I'm offended" is not a defense. If your ideas are good, then they should stand on their own merits without the need for you to shield them from criticism. If you are honest and have an interest in the truth, you should welcome the criticism of your ideas. Moreover, an open forum for the exchange and debate of ideas is vital for the progress of humankind; if you really do not wish to hear your ideas criticized, it is your responsibility to remove yourself from the discussion, not the responsibility of others to temper the discussion around you.

[QuantumModulus]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

If someone attacks your ideas though - if they criticize them, ridicule them, or disprove them - you should not take offense to that. "I'm offended" is not a defense. If your ideas are good, then they should stand on their own merits without the need for you to shield them from criticism. If you are honest and have an interest in the truth, you should welcome the criticism of your ideas. Moreover, an open forum for the exchange and debate of ideas is vital for the progress of humankind; if you really do not wish to hear your ideas criticized, it is your responsibility to remove yourself from the discussion, not the responsibility of others to temper the discussion around you.

This is simply fantastic. Might want to inject the same logic in the "Why so many haters?" thread.