Why so many haters?

[JKmadu619]

I'm just curious to why so many people on TeenHelp apparently hate christains. Threads come up daily about how we hate homosexuals, how we all take the bible word for word, about how we all are crazy. I assure you I do not hate homosexuals and I believe parts of the bible are rubbish (Like the bit that makes some people hate homosexuals.)


I don't see how it's fair to generalize christains and have a double standard for yourself. If I criticized atheism by saying "The fact insects evolved to us is impossible to prove and stupid." you would undoubted argue it. If I were to state "God created insects that evolved into humans" you would still argue it. No one likes their personal beliefs being attacked. So why are christians apparently not counted? If I were to poke fun at someone who was Jewish on the site or even believed in Santanic worship I would be countered by dozens of users. If I chose to slander christains many would join in.

Whenever a Christain is arguing an atheist will bring up scientific "Proof" which results in therories that are improvable. Sure there is proof but you cannot prove gravity. I could say you're living and breathing is proof God created you and call it a theory. Honestly, why is Christain proof never enough? Why are any scienctists any more qualified to try to find how the world works than anyone else?

Is it a rebellion thing? Is this and age where children resent their Christain parents and feel the need to pull away? I'm not really understanding why there are so many haters.

- Justin

Also: I cannot wait for the first post that says "We hate you because you are wrong" or something of the sorts.

[QuantumModulus]

I don't think there are very many, if any at all, atheists or agnostics who hate Christians simply because they are Christian. However, many of us hate Christianity. We argue so vehemently with them because the same ideas that give moderate Christians, like yourself, hope, come from the same source that give others the motivation to deny certain rights to homosexuals, people of other religions, races, or lifestyles. Like I said, having your beliefs is fine, but the reason that we're so passionate about it is usually this: the moderate, religion-influenced stance that you have on evolution is easily seen in some other Christians as full-blown creationism, which leads to delays in highly needed medical testing, and other research of the like. Our primary motive is spreading conclusive, verified, and credible pieces of information for the purpose of education and genuine progress.

Once again, to drive it home: we don't hate Christians. We hate the ideas that lead to Christians' hindering things for everyone else. And, sometimes, we may hate individual Christians -- not the entire group of people -- but it's for no reason other than why anyone might hate an atheist, a Buddhist, a Muslim, or anyone else. At that point, it's personal.

[JKmadu619]

QuantumModulus: Just how you mentioned I am a rational christain you are apparently a rational athesist. And yet in the thread we had for the rapture it never stopped some people from posting things like
"All christains are nutters who make me feel better about myself" it just seems kind of silly to generalize.

- Justin

[Beetbox]

OOFirstly, the translations in the bible which speak on homosexuality were altered even some christians believe that.

Christianity is one of the largest and most well known religion in the world hence why its debated a lot. As for hate, debating does not equal hate.

Of course athiests will debate you if you make comments against their beliefs that is what a debate is for. Christianity is not a target it is just very well known. However I have met many christians who have not srudied their faith properly and that is annoying.

As for crazy? It is crazy when christians who claim to know their faith profess the date for the end of the world and such. The majority of christians are not seen as crazy.

A rebellion? Do you honestly think that? People are debating not secretly trying to destroy christianity.

Remember not haters just debaters.

I love your last line it really adds to the credibility of your post overall.

[QuantumModulus]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

QuantumModulus: Just how you mentioned I am a rational christain you are apparently a rational atheist. And yet in the thread we had for the rapture it never stopped some people from posting things like
"All christains are nutters who make me feel better about myself" it just seems kind of silly to generalize.

- Justin

I think the reason that people were making comments like that is because while the whole rapture craze was going on, there were a lot of Christians making fun of Harold Camping for believing that he could know when the rapture would come, while on the other hand there were a lot of other Christians (and others) making fun of him for believing in the rapture at all, let alone putting a date on it.

It is silly to generalize, which is why the only generalizing that should be taking place is that of the religion, not its members as a collective. I think criticism should be directed toward either the individual, or the commonly held belief -- it doesn't make sense to subject a vast multitude of people to a certain critique. You're absolutely right.

[Kate*]

I'm not against any person or whole religion, I'm just opposed to certain ideas. In my opinion you are free to believe whatever you want on the conditions that you:

Don't try to convert me because I have as much right to my beliefs as you have to yours and I find it disrespectful. If I ask about it that's different

Don't use your religion to avoid taking responsibility for your actions for example, "It was God's plan for me to be in a car accident, it had nothing to do with the fact that I was drinking, texting, distracted etc."

Don't use your religion as an excuse to harm or judge others because it kind of defeats the purpose.

[JKmadu619]

Interesting posts guys.

Saphire_Wings: I didn't mean it was a rebellion against christainity, but a rebellion against authority. Why do some teens get radical tatoos, piercings, and mowhawks all together, for a cuture centered around rebellion. Not a conspiracy or uprising, just a way of lashing out, which some people feel they must do.

[Sythan]

In the United States, the only people who seem to be against Gay Rights are Christians and Christian Churches like the Mormons. They fail to provide any legal doctrine as to why Gay Rights should be restricted, the only thing they have is the Bible, which they see as being the only true thing in this world. That is one reason why people constantly nash on Christians, for their beliefs on Homosexuality. I agree it is wrong to persecute an entire group based on the beliefs of the ever increasingly few, however it is when the people who do not agree do not speak out and say "They don't speak for us", is why people mistakingly think homophobic views are shared in all of Christianity.

Many people blame the anti-gay feelings in Africa on Evangelical preachers who have spread their hate in that area. Now we see bills proposed in Parliament in African countries that include the Death Penalty simply for being who you are or Life Imprisonment for engaging in sexual acts deemed "deviant" simply becuase it is in the Bible.

Homosexuals aren't the only ones who are being attacked by the Christians, other religions have come under attack as well, simply becuase they reject the idea of needing a savior. Being constantly told you're going to hell because you don't believe in Christ can get extremely annoying.

As Gandhi once said "I like your Christ, I do not like you Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ." So long as there are people who take things to far, ie. Trying to convert people with the "If you don't you're going to hell card", there is always be an opposition, in any religion for that matter.

[Maloo]

You're generalizing the people who you upset with for generalizing.

You basically made it seem like "all atheists hate Christians."

There's a lot of ignorant people in the world, that's why people say the stupid things that they say.

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Interesting posts guys.

Saphire_Wings: I didn't mean it was a rebellion against christainity, but a rebellion against authority. Why do some teens get radical tatoos, piercings, and mowhawks all together, for a cuture centered around rebellion. Not a conspiracy or uprising, just a way of lashing out, which some people feel they must do.

Yes however many people just choose not to be christian. I know not one person who chooses not to be a christian just to rebel against authority.

[JKmadu619]

Sapphire_Wings: No, not everyone who does so does it to rebell. But I meant people under 18 generally do so just to rebell, even if it's uninetentional.

Sythan: Mormons are not Christains. Some say they are but they aren't. Also many christains (Or at least all the ones I've ever met) believe God is loving and would allow athesists and Christains into hevean bases on true moral fiber.

Myss: I don't feel that's what I said, but there is a difference between basically implying that it seems like all atheists hate Christains and actually saying that.

- Justin

[Sythan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one doctrine of the Mormons is a belief in Christ? If so, I would certainly call them Christians, a subsection maybe, but still Christians.

[QuantumModulus]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

But I meant people under 18 generally do so just to rebell, even if it's uninetentional.

That's completely fabricated and "generally" untrue. In fact, I take offense to that -- claiming that someone takes a position simply for the purpose of rebelling against authority merely because they are under a certain age threshold is really quite reprehensible, mainly because it's against the notion that people under 18 are capable of independent thinking on a higher level, and the fact that you're making an even grander generalization than the one you initially set out here to dissuade. Choose your points a bit more carefully next time.

[Marguerite]

As an Atheist I mostly agree with you. I used to come to this section all the time but I soon got sick of all the hypocrisy that surrounds here.

Every second post is "I hate Christians! They are so judgemental and ignorant." Pot? Kettle?

Or "Christianity is so ridiculous... lol, yeah... a magic man lives up in the sky. You'd have to be an idiot to not see the scientific evidence. I'd be fine with Christians if they didn't try to push their beliefs on others."

Seriously, I don't think half of these people realise how hypocritical and ridiculous they sound.

Usually they consider themselves so liberal too, and it's funny the lengths to go to to defend other religions. For example, if I were to cite an example from the past, or maybe something done by a few people (e.g., 9/11) to prove that Islam (for example) is fundamentally bad, they would call be a bigot (NOTE: I don't believe Islam is bad or that it caused 9/11 so don't jump on me for that). However, it's perfectly fine to say Christians hate homosexuality, because they are all the same. And if a Christian does something bad, it's just an example of how evil their religion is.

And while we're on homosexuality... I don't understand why they think Christianity is the only religion that discriminates against it. Like traditional Judaism or Islam have strong pro homosexual values

It's perfectly acceptable to say you hate Christianity because of the attitudes towards homosexuality, but if I said "I hate Islam because of the attitudes towards homosexuality", well, I'm a racist!

Funnily enough I have no problem with people who say they hate religion, full stop. I just have a problem with people who pretend they are all humanitarian and liberal and for equality yet have no problem openly judging and hating Christians/Christianity.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I'm just curious to why so many people on TeenHelp apparently hate christains. Threads come up daily about how we hate homosexuals, how we all take the bible word for word, about how we all are crazy. I assure you I do not hate homosexuals and I believe parts of the bible are rubbish (Like the bit that makes some people hate homosexuals.)

As Jorge said: I don't hate Christians (the people), I hate Christianity (the idea). My opinion of people is based on their actions, not just their beliefs. Unfortunately, a great many Christians act in accordance with the parts of the idea that I hate, so my opinion of them is correspondingly low. If, however, you act well and fairly, my opinion of you will reflect that instead. Fair enough?

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I don't see how it's fair to generalize christains and have a double standard for yourself. If I criticized atheism by saying "The fact insects evolved to us is impossible to prove and stupid." you would undoubted argue it. If I were to state "God created insects that evolved into humans" you would still argue it. No one likes their personal beliefs being attacked. So why are christians apparently not counted? If I were to poke fun at someone who was Jewish on the site or even believed in Santanic worship I would be countered by dozens of users. If I chose to slander christains many would join in.

Generalization is to an extent necessary. It's unreasonable to say "all Christians are x", but it's impractical to assess every single Christian on their individual merits. The compromise is to look at trends and correllations. As an example: not all Christians are homophobic, but a great many are. Not all Chirstians are scientifically illiterate, but a great many are. If an argument is being made about Christians who don't understand evolution but you happen to understand evolution, then you can safely gather that the argument isn't pointed at you.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Whenever a Christain is arguing an atheist will bring up scientific "Proof" which results in therories that are improvable. Sure there is proof but you cannot prove gravity. I could say you're living and breathing is proof God created you and call it a theory. Honestly, why is Christain proof never enough? Why are any scienctists any more qualified to try to find how the world works than anyone else?

Because scientists back up their claims with tangible, physical evidence and produce testable, refutable theories. Christian "proofs" aren't good enough because they don't offer real, testable explanations. Name me a single good argument in support of Yahweh and Jesus that doesn't at all involve the bible. I've yet to hear one, and that's the point: ultimately, Christianity stands or falls on the merits of a collection of ancient writings from a primitive culture, slowly accumulated over hundreds of years by priets, kings, and politicians. Compared to the grand sum of scientific knowledge we hold today, that testimony would be laughable but for the number of people who still take it seriously.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Is it a rebellion thing? Is this and age where children resent their Christain parents and feel the need to pull away? I'm not really understanding why there are so many haters.

As someone who has been an atheist all my life and as someone who has met and spoken with a great many atheists during my life: this is almost never the case. The vast majority of atheists are atheists because to them, religion makes no damn sense. They see no good reason to believe it, so they don't. End of story. I'm a "hater" because I think Christianity (and religion in general) is a very negative influence in the world.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Also: I cannot wait for the first post that says "We hate you because you are wrong" or something of the sorts.

I don't hate you (although incidentally, you are wrong. )

Originally Posted by Marguerite

Funnily enough I have no problem with people who say they hate religion, full stop. I just have a problem with people who pretend they are all humanitarian and liberal and for equality yet have no problem openly judging and hating Christians/Christianity.

Which category do I fall under? I hate religion full stop, but I also am humanitarian, liberal, for equality, and openly judge Christianity.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I'm just curious to why so many people on TeenHelp apparently hate christains.

I've yet to see someone openly say they hate all Christians. I make it quite clear on these forums I don't like Christianity at all but that is different from me saying I hate all Christians. The belief itself I dislike and some Christians I also dislike although not because they're Christian, usually it's due to how they present themselves and other characteristics.

However, many Christians appear unable to separate the difference between hating their belief versus hating the person. Many take it to mean hating the belief means hating the person, after all, the person holds the belief. That, for myself, is untrue, the belief does not solely define the person.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Threads come up daily about how we hate homosexuals, how we all take the bible word for word, about how we all are crazy. I assure you I do not hate homosexuals and I believe parts of the bible are rubbish (Like the bit that makes some people hate homosexuals.)

This is part of where I do get annoyed because the bible does not condemn homosexuals in the way many Christians believe, including the majority on TH. My reason for being annoyed is this lack of understanding or intentional ignorance of aspects of their own belief results in many being shunned.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I don't see how it's fair to generalize christains and have a double standard for yourself. If I criticized atheism by saying "The fact insects evolved to us is impossible to prove and stupid." you would undoubted argue it. If I were to state "God created insects that evolved into humans" you would still argue it. No one likes their personal beliefs being attacked. So why are christians apparently not counted?

There is a difference you're not acknowledging: science. The arguments that would ensue from such statements occur because there are mountains of physical evidence opposing your statements. There are not mountains of physical evidence for Christianity, rather it's faith-based, which is not easy to argue with. In the end, it's a difference between personal beliefs (Christianity) and a system of knowledge that fills libraries (science).

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

If I were to poke fun at someone who was Jewish on the site or even believed in Santanic worship I would be countered by dozens of users. If I chose to slander christains many would join in.

This is a very poor argument on your part. First, if you were to slander Christians, although many would join in, many would also oppose. The same applies to Judiasm and Satanism. Second, if you were to poke fun at Jewish and Satanic beliefs, you would also get people supporting you. Lastly, people on TH are also people in the "real-world", meaning isolating this to only a handful of people out of the total population is not representative. You can argue that the entire world is not on TH but I can argue that out of the 13,000+ users on TH, very few participate in this area of the forums. Since thousands do not, you're argument is not representative at all yet you claim it is.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Whenever a Christain is arguing an atheist will bring up scientific "Proof" which results in therories that are improvable. Sure there is proof but you cannot prove gravity.

Any person bringing up such scientific statements would be faced with other scientists arguing against them. There is no proof for anything in science, that is one of the basic philosophies so anytime someone uses that as an argument, it implies they don't have a grasp on the basic premises of science.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I could say you're living and breathing is proof God created you and call it a theory. Honestly, why is Christain proof never enough? Why are any scienctists any more qualified to try to find how the world works than anyone else?

When I write research papers, as a scientist, I must provide evidence for what I'm saying. Science relies on evidence, testing and re-testing hypotheses, examining flaws, etc... . Christianity can only account for how the world works by saying "god did done it, look in the bible". It automatically assumes all its statements are justified and completely correct. Science does not assume that, it tries to come close to it through rigorous examinations and testing. All Christian evidence is circular because it all points to the bible and the bible says whatever the bible says is correct. There isn't a single shred of evidence that can be examined in any way because it's faith-based.

Let me give you an example from the fields I focus in of pharmacology and neurobiology. Suppose there is a disease, pick any one you want. How can Christianity a) propose a treatment for the disease, b) see if that treatment is effective, c) figure out how to prevent it, d) figure out the origin and extrapolate to other diseases and so forth? It cannot, science can. Take another example of computers. Can Christianity a) use computers, b) develop better computer systems, c) make computer codes more secure and so forth? No.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Is it a rebellion thing? Is this and age where children resent their Christain parents and feel the need to pull away? I'm not really understanding why there are so many haters.

Usually it is not a rebellion. Almost all atheists were religious at some point or grew up with a religious family background. After analyzing the religion and their situation, they deemed it nonsense and not fit for them, where atheism made more sense. Such people remain as atheists unless they find something they strongly disagree with.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Also: I cannot wait for the first post that says "We hate you because you are wrong" or something of the sorts.

Funny, that's something Christianity likes to say but as an atheist I'll say you are flat out wrong on most of what you've said for the reasons explained above.

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Sapphire_Wings: No, not everyone who does so does it to rebell. But I meant people under 18 generally do so just to rebel, even if it's uninetentional

Personally I think your arguments pretty much by assumption alone bring themselves down. You generalize worse than the people you feel generalize christians. I suggest that before you bring an assumption to a debate you should check its validity. I want multiple sources of proof that I and others under 18 only wish to rebel. I assure you I have studied religion for years and my conclusion was a rational outcome. Your assumption is ridiculous I have found that the athiests I know that are under 18 know more about the bible than the under 18 christians I know. However that only includes the people I know.

[QuantumModulus]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Whenever a Christain is arguing an atheist will bring up scientific "Proof" which results in therories that are improvable. Sure there is proof but you cannot prove gravity. I could say you're living and breathing is proof God created you and call it a theory. Honestly, why is Christain proof never enough? Why are any scienctists any more qualified to try to find how the world works than anyone else?

Thought I'd address this point before going to bed. I apologize beforehand if I lose my inhibition along the way.

How on earth can anyone provide proof for something that is "unprovable"?!? It's beyond me. I'd suppose that at least one part of that assertion has to be false, otherwise it simply doesn't work, but let's just look at the example you give: gravity. First, let's look at what a theory is: "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena". Now, the theory of gravity (to keep it simple, we'll stick to Newton): "a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies have mutual attraction proportional to their masses."

Simple enough, right?

I don't think there's any debating that it's an easily defined and well-understood concept. You and I both experience the same gravity, and as long as we don't disagree about the definitions of attraction and mass, then I don't think it's a very extreme position to say that it's a true theory. And, if we have definitions for attraction and mass -- based on experiments carried out independently than those of gravity -- then it conclusively proves the theory, as long as it agrees, consistently and without exception, to the theory. Which it does. The theory has been proved, will continue to be proved, and is even being modified in its technical aspects to better describe our universe in various scales that humans aren't accustomed to understanding. I think that the most beautiful word in that last sentence is modified. Science is mutable. There is no absolute truth. Once we have a theory that works well with our observations and that we understand thoroughly, we say that it is proven -- but it is still completely open to change when new evidence presents itself, and a new theory has to be written. Religion shows no sign of mutability. Unless you consider it mutable if we alter our interpretation of its texts every once in a while.

We now even have a fundamentally correct picture of how the universe works with respect to gravitation, thanks to Einstein's general relativity. We know some of the most basic properties of our universe that allows the theory of gravity to seem correct -- everywhere. It only helps to strengthen the theory. Right now, we're even looking for, by definition, the most fundamental aspects of the force of gravity, by analyzing particle collisions and, one day, possibly observing gravitons. We may be a while away, but even if we don't have the capabilities of observing it, the theory of gravity still holds true; it becomes a matter of further defining or altering our understanding of the process through which it operates.

Now, your example: if you proceeded under the hypothesis that states that "God created man", and then said that the existence of man was an indicator of God's existence, then you'd be making a very foolish mistake, commonly known as avoiding the burden of proof. I could easily state that a pink unicorn created humans -- and hence, pink unicorns must exist, because humans exist. However, you and I both know that there are obvious methods of verifying whether or not I am correct, and you wouldn't give my hypothesis a second thought. Why? Simply because I don't give any sort of reason, or any consistent, clear indication that my assertion is correct. Certainly, I could just say that the pink unicorn is just a metaphor for creation in general -- but I doubt that would make you believe it any more than you did at the beginning of this paragraph.

Also, it makes it far more credible when we know the actual mechanics -- the methods through which an action is carried out. The reason that we believe so firmly in the theory of gravity is because we have such a thorough, evolving, and verifiable picture of how it works -- that is not something that you can say about your hypothesis. It doesn't make scientists any more qualified to try to understand the universe -- you can be our guest and try to trump our successes as you please -- but, the reason that your argument falls flat on its face in the context of modern science is simply because it is nondescript, and non-verifiable. It does not provide any insight into what will lie ahead, based on past examples of a hypothesis correctly asserted.

So, my last statement is: seeing how you don't like the fact that Christian hypotheses aren't taken very seriously, and that you don't like it when Christians are lumped into a stereotype because of their religion, what have you gotten against scientists that makes you generalize them so? Especially those whose theories have proven to be quite successful and directly beneficial to your quality of life -- the ones responsible for the computer screen with which you are reading this comment, or the electromagnetism-driven speakers with which you're listening to your music, or the penicillin with which you fought disease when you were too young to do so on your own. It baffles me.

I've really got to start answering these new questions point-by-point...makes things much more thorough.

[~Mr. Self Destruct~]

I don't hate Christians, just their doctrines. There's no point in hating someone based on their status or dispositions, only their actions.
For example, I despise the Westboro Baptist Church because they are blatantly offensive and pernicious, not because of their beliefs.

[Marguerite]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

Which category do I fall under? I hate religion full stop, but I also am humanitarian, liberal, for equality, and openly judge Christianity.

I don't consider you a hypocrite as you argue your case well, and always back up your arguments. I was basically just talking about people who use the phrase 'magical sky daddy' a lot and think they're hilarious... you know the kind of people I'm talking about.

Not to put words in your mouth but you seem more educated on Christianity than other religions so it makes sense you would single out Christianity in an argument.

[John 6:29]

Because we're all blind idiots.

[JKmadu619]

Users here might not even realize which posts I'm referring to. I feel like gathering posts that prove all my points, but I'm not sure I should single any users out.

A moral problem. I think I'll go pray for an answer. (That was a joke.)

- Justin

[ChaosControl]

I don't hate Christians because I'm aware that everyone is entitled to their own belief, opinion or faith, and that you can't lump everyone who shares the same faith into the same category, or assume they all hold exactly the same views.

From my own experience, everyone has a slightly different interpretation of their religion (or atheism). I know some Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin. I know other Christians who are totally accepting of LGBT, like yourself (OP).

I agree it's hypocritical to attack someone's religion based on the assumption that they attack atheism. To tell the truth, it unnerves me to see some people (not all) buy into a religious belief so blindly. But, hey. Some atheists do practically the same thing. Lots of religious people are able to think for themselves, and many atheists jump to shallow conclusions about religion. It's not fair, and neither group should make generalisations about the other, but sadly it still happens.

[BDF]

Not just Christianity. A lot of religions are hated on nowadays. On TH it seems however there's less hostility towards those slightly less known religions, such as Satanism. Perhaps because people accept they don't know enough about Satanism to pass any judgement on it, whereas people think they know everything about Christianity because it's so well known.

Negativity spreads faster than positivity. People will almost always amplify the drawbacks of anything rather than support it. People can't find a common belief, so instead they find something else in common, like hating on other people's beliefs, and they'l look for any reasons to justify this.

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Users here might not even realize which posts I'm referring to. I feel like gathering posts that prove all my points, but I'm not sure I should single any users out.

A moral problem. I think I'll go pray for an answer. (That was a joke.)

- Justin

If you wish to form a valid argument you must bring forward proof if you don't then you are basically denying people the right to refute your observation. It also allows you to feel like no person actually could refute your point. If you do not bring forward proof your argument yet again falls apart. Though as far as I can see people have already argued your point. A debate is where you reply to the arguments brought against your arguments. You are failing to do this, simply using one line pass offs. Bring forward your proof or you are not debating.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Users here might not even realize which posts I'm referring to. I feel like gathering posts that prove all my points, but I'm not sure I should single any users out.

If you're not going to do so, then it's a waste of time because you cant form any half-decent arguments otherwise. So far, there's no debate going on because everyone thus far, has made an argument (relatively the same argument), so it's necessary for you or someone else to respond with a counter-argument.

[Neon]

There is much more social ignorance in Islam then there is in Christianity. Why do people tend to go after Christianity when other religions are much worse and no one makes a peep about them?

Part of it might be the 'rebelling' thing you mentioned. Mostly because you can say anything you want about Christianity without any repercussions. There is a violent outcry when someone insults Islam. Another reason is because other religions are not so prevalent in other peoples lives here as Christianity, so obviously you are going to go after the nearest one.

[Power Cosmic]

They're just as bad as each other, just in different ways =P.


I utterly loathe and despise religion. All religion, but Christianity, Islam and Judaism most of all, just since they stand against so much that is good in the world, even if individuals don't do so. They're insane doctrines rooted in times of barbarism. And Because they've caused far more harm than good and stifle intellectualism with a shield of ignorance and call it virtue.

Christianity just comes up the most since in this mostly English speaking website, where most users are from the western world, ie. where Christianity has been spreading it's tendrils the most, then it's the most relevant.


As Xujhan said, I don't believe not because of some act of rebellion (which btw, is just downright insulting and shows a lot of hypocrisy in your statement), but since it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

And when it comes down to it, religious people are the most intolerant people by far. For every athiest who causes negativity, there's at least 10 religious people who hate gays, keep shouting psychotically in the middle of town squares, spread their insidious lies, tell others that they're 'sinners' and foster that squalid guilt that causes such despair in the gullible and already downtrodden. I could write a 10,000 word essay on offences caused to me personally by the religious right throughout my 21 years of life (or at least, as much of it as I can remember), but that doesn't mean much since it's an entirely subjective viewpoint.
Instead, I stick to the general statements that have been proven true again and again.

Religious people such as yourself get all indignant and say that people like me offend you? Well, I just have to remind you that that's just what you think, that's just your own views, since I find people blindly subservient to an imaginary being which they literally believe exists despite uncountable mountains of evidence, offensive. I find people talking about how they have a 'personal relationship with Jesus' offensive and quite frankly, sad.
When I hear Muslims working them up to a fever pitch with their sexism and bigotry, and when I hear Christians apologising for the more psychotic facets of the whole and denying them, despite them still being a part of their belief system. I find that offensive.

Originally Posted by Xujhan

Which category do I fall under? I hate religion full stop, but I also am humanitarian, liberal, for equality, and openly judge Christianity.

Ditto here ^^;

So yeah...I am as I am because I think all you religious people are wrong at best, dangerously and fanatically delusional at worst. Not because of a laughable fallacy such as 'faith without evidence' that you all seem to love so much, but because I've weighed up the evidence as far as I'm possibly able to and logically deduced it.



Now I'm not saying I hate all religious people, since that'd be a lot of hate, I've got other things to do. I pity them to be honest, at how they've been conditioned to utterly reject anything that doesn't conform to their group norm. It's just a facet of human psychology and somewhat painful to see the injustice of it all =/.
I'm not saying I think all religious people are idiots, despite how tempted I might be to cast such a judgement, rather I think that there are individual religious people who're intelligent despite their religion. *shrugs* What can I say? When such cynical views are proven right time and time again, what else can one extrapolate? ...

[JKmadu619]

Here are a bunch of threads that I feel prove my point many are simply anti religious, but they seem to veer towards christains (Or at least that is how I feel):

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...uch-huge-deal/

Anti Religious

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...e-homosexuals/

Many good posts with a few nasty ones

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...real-then-why/

A bunch of posts which don't mention the word christainity, but refer to the Holy Christain Bible among other things

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...god%92s-plans/

Mildly offensive, short posts

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...moral-compass/

Worst thread so far, it attracted all "Haters" and they suffocated the thread.

I hope you all realize I use the word "Haters" unseriously. Many will disagree, because I noticed many posts I found offensive were made by people on this thread, but I will still share them.

- Justin

[JKmadu619]

Now that I really think about it, it's not really a hate of Christainity, but major religions as a whole. Apparently people only really voice it against Christains because it provokes a debate.

- Justin

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Here are a bunch of threads that I feel prove my point many are simply anti religious, but they seem to veer towards christains (Or at least that is how I feel):

Ultimately the first post usually decides what the topic is about, the posts below are focused on Christianity because of this.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...uch-huge-deal/

Anti Religious

Yes this is anti religious. However it is not hating on Christians only religion. Since the topic was started about the church it focused on the church. It would really have been off-topic to start talking about any other religion in the middle of it.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...e-homosexuals/

Many good posts with a few nasty ones

This seems like simply a normal debate to me. I see no real truly hateful posts here.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...real-then-why/

A bunch of posts which don't mention the word christainity, but refer to the Holy Christain Bible among other things

That is what we call debating an issue. I am sorry but like this isn't really a hate thread. People reference the bible to build valid arguments just like you are trying to use these threads to do.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...god%92s-plans/

Mildly offensive, short posts

This one was based on Christianity and I see nothing really offensive in it. I see opinions and debating, though I will admit there are short posts.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...moral-compass/

Worst thread so far, it attracted all "Haters" and they suffocated the thread.

I am sorry but how can you say this was aimed at Christianity it was aimed at religious people. You feel offended about the Christian bits because you are Christian.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I hope you all realize I use the word "Haters" unseriously. Many will disagree, because I noticed many posts I found offensive were made by people on this thread, but I will still share them.

- Justin

If you do not mean haters than I suggest expanding your vocabulary and finding an appropriate word.

Also i see nothing truly wrong here. Maybe you feel like people should be more diplomatic or more sensitive or something else but that isn't how things work. It isn't hating on Christians. Plus the fact that you are only coming up with a few threads where there is no real "I hate Christians" vibe from loads of people like you suggested makes me wonder if you simply are over reacting slightly.

However if you wish to pick individual posts than go ahead and I will tell you what I think about them. Overall your examples aren't great for suggesting everyone is anti Christian.

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Now that I really think about it, it's not really a hate of Christainity, but major religions as a whole. Apparently people only really voice it against Christains because it provokes a debate.

- Justin

Really there are way more threads than just Christian threads but you still think that it is focusing on Christians, my question to you is why?

[JKmadu619]

Sapphire_Wings: I would assume it is because I am a Christain and I take anti religious threads personally. Meaning I am a Christain and I feel the attacks are against Christainity. I would assume it is more of an anti religous thing as a whole, but because a lack of Jewish people on TH by bringing Christains as a specific into later posts provokes a further debate.

- Justin

[Beetbox]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Sapphire_Wings: I would assume it is because I am a Christain and I take anti religious threads personally. Meaning I am a Christain and I feel the attacks are against Christainity. I would assume it is more of an anti religous thing as a whole, but because a lack of Jewish people on TH by bringing Christains as a specific into later posts provokes a further debate.

- Justin

Debates are not personal attacks however on anyone. It is the clash of opinions and beliefs. They are places to learn and persuade, not to attack anyone for any reason. If a debate is slowing down any new points will start up a new stream of replies, it isn't just the Christianity aspect. A piece of advice though, taking debates personally doesn't end well.

[Smitten]

To address the topic of the OP:

I believe religion as a whole (all sub categories, sects, versions, and mutant offspring included.) is a negative influence.
I "hate" Christianity the most, as it has had by far the most influence and impact in the society I have grown up in... arguably negative influence.

I "hate" religion because I hate the concept of religion, namely that it requires a certain level of blind, unwavering, and unquestioning belief.
I have a serious issue with that.
In my opinion, humanity should question everything. "WHY" is the most powerful tool we have as a species - it is "why" that separates us from Ants. Religion takes that fundamental difference away from us - everything is about faith.

I do not have a issue with faith itself, but faith is placed in the wrong entity!
Faith should be placed in humanity - not a deity.

Children should not be indoctrinated and brainwashed into a faith the same way that The Nazi's should not have indoctrinated and brainwashed children into the Hitler Youth, Children should only be taught to think for themselves and to make their own decisions about "truth" when they are old enough.
A society based on knowledge and the pursuit of intelligence would have far less conflict than those with all the bickering about which invisible entity to worship. Pink unicorn? Jesus? Shiva? Moses? Spaghetti Monster? The pant's on head retarded guy that worked at the dry cleaners and died last week that my friend Steve is worshiping as the new messiah? So many choices!

How about we pick up a book and start putting our efforts into solving today's problems, rather than perpetuating the problems of past generations.
Come on!


For more supporting reasons as to why I hate Christianity, I refer you to one of My many threads that openly bashes it's hypocrisy. <CLICK ME>


-Smitten

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I'm just curious to why so many people on TeenHelp apparently hate christains. Threads come up daily about how we hate homosexuals, how we all take the bible word for word, about how we all are crazy. I assure you I do not hate homosexuals and I believe parts of the bible are rubbish (Like the bit that makes some people hate homosexuals.)

None of us hate Christians, we fucking hate Christianity. It's a theology that, when you look deep into it, that is so riddled with ridiculously immoral beliefs, countless contradictions, a lack of any sort of proof and has inspired so much hate in the past that it's crazy. I'd also bring up this point: You cannot pick and choose which bits of the bible you believe and which you don't. You can't choose to believe the nice bits and say that it proves God's a nice guy, then claim all the evil stuff is bullshit - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

I don't see how it's fair to generalize christains and have a double standard for yourself. If I criticized atheism by saying "The fact insects evolved to us is impossible to prove and stupid." you would undoubted argue it. If I were to state "God created insects that evolved into humans" you would still argue it. No one likes their personal beliefs being attacked. So why are christians apparently not counted? If I were to poke fun at someone who was Jewish on the site or even believed in Santanic worship I would be countered by dozens of users. If I chose to slander christains many would join in.

I'd of course not argue with you on that because we could prove that it is not true - we did not evolve form insects, we evolved from apes or thereabouts. If you said "The fact apes evolved to us is impossible to prove and stupid" I would definitely argue with you - if only to help you understand why you're demonstratably wrong.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Whenever a Christain is arguing an atheist will bring up scientific "Proof" which results in therories that are improvable. Sure there is proof but you cannot prove gravity. I could say you're living and breathing is proof God created you and call it a theory. Honestly, why is Christain proof never enough? Why are any scienctists any more qualified to try to find how the world works than anyone else?

Christian 'proof' is not proof of any kind. It's simply teaching you to be content with not understand how the universe works. Science is how the world works - scientists investigate how the world works and therefore understand things - Priests etc. know nothing of how the world work except what has been taught to them by scientists.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Is it a rebellion thing? Is this and age where children resent their Christain parents and feel the need to pull away? I'm not really understanding why there are so many haters.

In this age of constant information, we are able to understand far more than we ever were. Teenagers and young adults are brought up in a world where they can read and learn about how the world works, and the more we learn about how it works, the less room there is for religions like Christianity.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Also: I cannot wait for the first post that says "We hate you because you are wrong" or something of the sorts.

Obligatory we hate you because you are wrong.

Originally Posted by JKmadu619

Here are a bunch of threads that I feel prove my point many are simply anti religious, but they seem to veer towards christains (Or at least that is how I feel):

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...uch-huge-deal/

Anti Religious

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...e-homosexuals/

Many good posts with a few nasty ones

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...real-then-why/

A bunch of posts which don't mention the word christainity, but refer to the Holy Christain Bible among other things

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...god%92s-plans/

Mildly offensive, short posts

http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f39-r...moral-compass/

Worst thread so far, it attracted all "Haters" and they suffocated the thread.

I hope you all realize I use the word "Haters" unseriously. Many will disagree, because I noticed many posts I found offensive were made by people on this thread, but I will still share them.

- Justin

Factual =/= Offensive
Sorry.

[BDF]

What I personally find offensive is people being totally intolerant and inconsiderate of other's beliefs. If other's beliefs where somehow disrupting your lifestyle, then yea you have a right to answer back at it, as it'd be defending your own beliefs. Everyone's entitled to defend themselves. But don't go out of your way attacking others for having different beliefs, because by definition you'l see the same thing from two completely different view points, because of your beliefs. There's no way you'l see it like they do, so actually, you can't even argue coherently against them... because you don't even fully understand their beliefs from their viewpoint.

Saying you don't believe in God is fine. Saying that "God sucks and is a lie", or something similar, isn't fine. It's offensive. Even I find it offensive, and I don't believe in God.

Attacking other's beliefs is wrong. It's not always explicit. That's what I hate about it... people like to disguise it in all kinds of shit and be subtle about it.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by BDF

Saying you don't believe in God is fine. Saying that "God sucks dick and is a lie", or something similar, isn't fine. It's offensive. Even I find it offensive, and I don't believe in God.

So let's also ban all forms of proselytising. Same thing.

[Power Cosmic]

Originally Posted by BDF

What I personally find offensive is people being totally intolerant and inconsiderate of other's beliefs. If other's beliefs where somehow disrupting your lifestyle, then yea you have a right to answer back at it, as it'd be defending your own beliefs. Everyone's entitled to defend themselves. But don't go out of your way attacking others for having different beliefs, because by definition you'l see the same thing from two completely different view points, because of your beliefs. There's no way you'l see it like they do, so actually, you can't even argue coherently against them... because you don't even fully understand their beliefs from their viewpoint.

Saying you don't believe in God is fine. Saying that "God sucks and is a lie", or something similar, isn't fine. It's offensive. Even I find it offensive, and I don't believe in God.

Attacking other's beliefs is wrong. It's not always explicit. That's what I hate about it... people like to disguise it in all kinds of shit and be subtle about it.

However, the concept of God sucks for me and it's a lie. That's my opinion (formed via evidence etc., you know the drill). I don't disguise how much I hate religion?
Also, so how is it that my opinion is offensive and religious people saying they believe homosexuality is wrong not? I'm not saying you personally believe that/endorse that, I know you don't, but I'm simply pointing to the similarity. Both are opinions, both are truth as each party believes it. Is it offensive; maybe? Is it wrong to express the opinion? No. I don't think it is.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by MonsterCosmonaut

So let's also ban all forms of proselytising. Same thing.

To be fair, saying that something is bad or immoral isn't the same thing as saying that it should be illegal. Calling people names isn't nice, but it's not illegal, as an example.

Originally Posted by Taste of Neon

There is much more social ignorance in Islam then there is in Christianity. Why do people tend to go after Christianity when other religions are much worse and no one makes a peep about them?

Generally because most of us live in predominantly Christian societies. Arguing against Islam is less likely to be fruitful simply because there are many fewer Muslims reading the debate.