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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 04:39 AM

Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Satanists, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Everybody else, can't we all agree that we shouldn't hate each other because of our religion or what we think about things, but we should hate each other on what WE DO AS A PERSON, not what we think, sure if somebody told me that they hated gays, i wouldnt automatically hate them (i am bisexual myself so, yeah) i would be a tad angry but not hate, but if that person did a hate crime or went to a gay marriage and bashed it or something of the like, i would hate them, i dont hate all Christians becuase of the teachings of the bible, i just hate the bible, I don't hate all Muslims because of a certain few, I don't hate Jews because well uh, hmm, i don't really know if the Jewish people have done anything wrong, (I suck at history) I dont hate pagans because well, i can't..I follow some Pagan teachings, i dont hate Satanists because well i also am one, I have no problem with any religion, I have a problem with the way the people of said religion do, i dont hate Christianity because of the Crusades, I hate the people who made it happen. Basically, im saying, dont hate the religion, hate the person.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 04:49 AM

Um I think it would be much better to hate the religion, not the person. I hate religion, can't stand it. People I judge on a case by case basis, and I can't recall ever truly hating anyone, I mean it's such a strong word after all. Why hate the person when it comes to religion? Often times they are just ignorant, and that's usually not their fault. It's much more productive to try to educate a person rather than hate them. And it's also much more productive to hate their actions, not the person themselves. There are not as many truly sadistic people as we think, many people who commit hateful actions do so for non hateful reasons.

Oh though I did just think of a group of people I actually hate. The WBC, I seriously hope for the day we hear that they all just gave up and killed themselves. Or at least for the day when Fred Phelps dies, cults don't last long after their leader dies.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 05:06 AM

(off topic) you know the WBC's pastor (fred dude) his son is an athiest but anyways im just saying you get a lot of hate for hating a religion, but you dont get a lot of hate for hating a person


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 06:23 AM

I don't hate religions or people, I hate some religious teaching and some humans' actions...

...I'm unsure if that's what you mean or not?


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 09:22 AM

I don't hate religion. I just don't respect it at all. I respect someone's' right to practice it. I'd die for that right. But I don't respect the concept in and of itself. The religion as a whole though, is not a proper means of judging someone. DR2005 is one of the most interesting, engaging people I've ever spoken to, and he's a Catholic. Similarly, there's another Christian user here whose posts make me want to cut my eyes out and throw at my screen.

And I'd rather NEVER end debate. Debate is conducive to a proper and healthy society.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 08:08 PM

Toz: Seconded. Without debate, no matter how heated we're simply ignoring our issues and misunderstanding of others, instead hoping to live in some kind of blissful ignorance. However that is NOT a smart way to live.


I myself am religious, although as of late I haven't come off as Christian to users here. And I fully support an athesist's right to criticize me, and some of the teachings my fellow Christians follow. I think that's the thing with the debate board here, it might come across as we're attacking each other's beliefs, or undermining them, but I feel the contrary. I feel as though every debate here is respectful and constructive.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 29th 2012, 10:28 PM

I don't really hate anyone?


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 12:09 AM

Personally, I encourage debate. I'm a Christian myself, but anyone here has a right to disagree with my beliefs. As long as it doesn't turn into a personal attack, I'm completely open to whatever ideas about religion a person has. In my honest opinion, if you can't back up your beliefs in a debate, you might want to re-think some things.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 01:24 AM

I'll say here what I've always said: You don't have to like everyone or agree with what everyone says or does, but treat everyone with the basic respect of a fellow human being and leave the judgement up to God, if you choose to believe in Him. I don't hate people, but I strongly disagree with some biblical and religious teachings.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 04:42 AM

Trying to end any debate is something I don't support because it restricts finding new information and can be healthy for people to get their views heard to know they're not alone. I'm not sure why the OP wants to end the debate, I think that should be explained.

As for the particular topic, I don't have respect for theistic beliefs I have examined. I can extrapolate my dislike for the effect of those beliefs onto religions I haven't examined, however, I feel it is ignorant to disrespect or hate something that has not yet been examined in the first place. Similarly, I have respect for all individuals I haven't had any previous interaction with or knowledge. I have no respect for Christianity, although it would be incorrect to say I dislike or disrespect all Christians. For example, I like and respect dr2005 (you're a popular one in this thread apparently), not because of his religion, rather due to his intellect, religious beliefs, and various personality traits.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 05:56 AM

No. That'd be really boring.

Thinking is fun, would you want to end that because it might bring up conflicting views? Without debate, people will continue living in ignorance about both sides of the argument.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 07:16 AM

We all have the right to an opinion, so no. This debate is never going to end. That said - you need to get to know people rather than being against them because of their religion. That's just my opinion, though.
   
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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 10:23 AM

i hate the actions of people., which sometimes make me really dislike a person...
my main hate is someone trying to shove their religion down my throat, makes me wanna scream.


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 30th 2012, 11:26 PM

It's a lovely thought you posted, and I think it would be wonderful if we could do that. But we are humans and we live in a world that isn't very conducive to peace because too many people want too many different things and people like to talk more than they listen. And people, being people, grow to adopt opinions, beliefs, and morals and traditions. And since everyone is different, and raised in a different culture with different socioeconomic and class factors and nutrition and education and strength of family ties and much, much more....well, people are going to believe different things, and believe in them really strongly.

Because we generally work my categorizing people it is difficult to separate the individuals from the ideology, especially if, say, most of the people you know personally act in a certain way that isn't something you agree with. By using inductive reasoning it's easy to take specific examples and deduce the WHOLE thing has one overall statement that applies to everyone in that group. It's sad, but true.

For example, I believe in God and I believe in Jesus Christ. That makes me a Christian. And when people first hear me say that (I'm directing this at atheists because they, generally speaking, are the ones that do this, followed closely by satanists) they automatically get VERY defensive. They bristle at me before they even hear what I have to say because they believe all Christians are Bible Thumping hypocritical over-controlling prude people. So they are surprised when they discover I am not like that. I have different beliefs from most other Christians. I don't really force them on other people, either. If someone wants to know about my experience with God, I will share it. But I am not here to jump down people's throats. I'm here to share an opinion. An opinion that, since they have a predetermined view or opinion on what I believe, people often attack. Not because of me. But because of what I believe.

It's people who decide to "hate" something that perpetuate the cycle. Because by hating something, they translate into condescending everyone under that banner.

If you look at this forum, it's mainly divided between Christians and atheists. From what I have seen there are more of the latter. Every time a Christian person makes a point, some prejudiced, snide atheist has to throw it in their face. There is always at least one. Christians do the same thing. They tell a lot of atheists why they are wrong, wrong, wrong, without giving them a chance, either. Both sides are guilty of having people engage in that kind of disrespectful conduct.

That's why I think everyone should be able to actually SEE both sides of the argument. To stand on the sidelines and be able to say realize that one of them is stupid while the other isn't, but to see they both have valid points, and both deserve to be RESPECTED and listened to. To be in the other person's shoes. In my opinion there isn't enough of that here on Teenhelp, let alone in the world, on a larger scale where there are wars and deaths.

And that is really unfortunate.



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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 31st 2012, 07:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
That makes me a Christian. And when people first hear me say that (I'm directing this at atheists because they, generally speaking, are the ones that do this, followed closely by satanists) they automatically get VERY defensive. They bristle at me before they even hear what I have to say because they believe all Christians are Bible Thumping hypocritical over-controlling prude people.
Really? I'm sorry to hear that, I almost feel guilty by association.

What I thought most people would do ( well I do this anyway) is just to recognize we're human first then our religion or lack of comes into play. but I guess people are still douchebags. That's a pity.

Oh actually this might go off topic but that reminds me of something. Complacency is the easiest way to lose a debate. Never assume your argument is always right


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 31st 2012, 09:30 PM

guys, by debate i meant the whole "GOD IS REAL" "NO HE ISNT" "YOURE GOING TO HELL" stuff, not the (semi) calm debate we have on TH


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - March 31st 2012, 10:03 PM

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Originally Posted by RadkeLover View Post
guys, by debate i meant the whole "GOD IS REAL" "NO HE ISNT" "YOURE GOING TO HELL" stuff, not the (semi) calm debate we have on TH
Well that isn't debate. That's childish babble


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - April 1st 2012, 05:06 AM

I don't hate people with different ideas and beliefs as me, I don't really hate anyone. Beliefs are beliefs and if everyone had the same ones our world would be black and white instead of all these fantastic colors. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, why shouldn't they be? I know that I get pissed off when I'm told my opinion is invalid, so why would I tell that to someone else?


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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - April 2nd 2012, 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenonsteroids View Post
Oh actually this might go off topic but that reminds me of something. Complacency is the easiest way to lose a debate. Never assume your argument is always right
This is why I really like to play devil's advocate, honestly. It gives me a chance to argue from both perspectives. It doesn't necessarily mean that's what I believe, but I like to put myself in each "side's" shoes.



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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - April 3rd 2012, 09:00 PM

Didn't realise I'd made that kind of impression...thanks guys.

Anyway, before my ego gets too big, I'm a firm believer that well-informed, rational debate - both in terms of discussion and argument - is fundamental to the functioning of society. It's how ideas are best formulated, tested and adopted (or abandoned) and it prevents the kind of complacency and circular affirmation which has too often led to fanaticism or extremism in our history. So on that basis, debate is very important and all topics (including religion) are fair game. That said, debate requires being able to see and understand the other person's point of view so as to form a proper response, and I feel sometimes that can be lacking in debates about religion - not from one particular group or another, I add, just generally. That leads to a certain degree of ignorance, which then leads to fear from lack of knowledge, and that often leads to the hatred the OP is getting at. As has been said by others, and with which I wholeheartedly agree, the key bit is to see other people as people, not to group them under catch-all labels - Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Jew, Agnostic, Buddhist etc - and attempt to apply a one-size-fits-all meaning to them. It's far too complicated and nuanced an area of life for that to ever work, and all it does is beget misunderstanding and mistrust. That isn't any good to anyone.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Let's end this hate/debate/whatever - April 5th 2012, 04:01 AM

Of course we shouldn't hate people because of their beliefs. I don't hate anyone at all, actually. I can dislike or disagree with their actions, but I don't think that hating anyone gets you anywhere, so why bother?


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