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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 11:07 AM

This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

Are these sins ?
- Self harm
- suicide attempts
- suffering a mental illness
- defending yourself when bullied ie. retaliating
- using quotes from Buddhism to live by as advice for your life
- swearing
- underage sex
- thinking about and fascinating over the dark side of life ie. death , inner emotions , depression , sadness, darkness


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 11:14 AM

I can't really add much to this, other than the fact that I have often wondered this myself and when I asked a fellow christian she told me that self harm, suicide,swearing and underage sex are sins. Hope this helped a little


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 05:42 PM

Different Christians will tell you different things. As far as I know, the Bible doesn't specifically mention the bulk of the things on this list. I know that underage sex (or any sex before marriage) and swearing are considered to be sins. For some reason, I feel like the Bible considers suicide to be sin, but I'm not entirely sure I agree with that. I'm really not sure about self-harm. I highly doubt that retaliation is bullying - it's just defending yourself from being harmed. Again, I don't think the Buddhism thing is a sin. If you're a Christian and follow the Bible, but use quotes from another religion to further represent you, I think it's fine. Suffering from a mental illness is definitely not a sin. You didn't choose it, so I don't see how it could be considered wrong on your part. I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about the dark side of life, either. It's totally natural to be curious and kind of fascinated by it.

Keep in mind that about half of this is from my personal beliefs. I am a Christian, but the ones that the Bible doesn't explicitly state are just the way I feel about things.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 06:22 PM

I'm not going to comment on matters spiritual, but it's always interesting to me how people see religion as some dark, sinister force that punishes people for being essentially human.

If you talk not so much with your peers of your own faith, but actual clergy, you'll find that religion is far more tolerant and understanding of the human condition than most teens give credit for.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 07:30 PM

The Bible (or the little that I know about it) doesn't even mention suicide and/or suicide attempts. Churches used to deny church funerals for deaths by suicide and shun the families, but this is no longer the case. Because suicide and/or attempts are usually the result of mental illness and the person is irrational at the time of the action, it is not considered a sin. The person won't go to Hell because they didn't have full control of their actions.

The only reason underage sex probably is, is because you aren't supposed to have sex with anyone other than your husband or wife.

If you are physically attacked, I don't think it's a sin to defend yourself, but you probably aren't allowed to retaliate. I think you're supposed to turn to God to retaliate for you ie let it go and not let it get to you.

Whether or not you swear is really up to you and I don't think that following concepts or quotes of Buddism is wrong and being aware of your inner thoughts is a good thing.

Self-harm might be considered one by conservatives because you're abusing your body which God provided for your soul. In the end though, God is supposed to accept and love you unconditionally.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xGothicXvampireXeternityx View Post
Are these sins ?
- Self harm
- suicide attempts
- suffering a mental illness
- defending yourself when bullied ie. retaliating
- using quotes from Buddhism to live by as advice for your life
- swearing
- underage sex
- thinking about and fascinating over the dark side of life ie. death , inner emotions , depression , sadness, darkness
I will try to answer this, though, my word, advice, or understanding, should be taken as a grain of salt. I'm ignorant on most matters. First of all, I believe in a relative morality, as explained through the Apostle Paul. But, I also believe certain things are objective. I.E. Do not kill. Paul tells us whatever does not come from faith, is sin. Thus, if you cannot do what you do in a clear conscience, it is a sin.

Self-harm & Suicide
Now, self-harm and suicide are not explicitly mentioned in the Bible as sin. It does not say anywhere, "Though shalt not commit suicide." However, Christ admonishes us to love as we love ourselves. Therefore, the command to love others is also dependent on our love for ourselves. If we are then commanded not to kill, harm, or hurt others (which we are), then we shouldn't do them to ourselves. There are passages people will post like, "Your body is a temple," etc. but these aren't talking about suicide. It's talking about false teachers. But, given the logic I've posted, I'd say, yes, they are sins.

Mental Illness
Suffering a mental illness is not a sin. The Bible speaks of some people who had illnesses, mental ones, yet Christ cured them. They are more of a result of sin in the world. If you are speaking of things like depression, etc. One only has to look at the Psalms, and see that there are plenty of people who were depressed in the Bible. The truth is, however, that depressions is often the result of sin.

Defense
Defending yourself, to my mind, though many will disagree, is a sin. We are to be examples of Christ. Christ didn't defend himself. Rather, He was crucified. He told us if someone steals something, to give them more, and don't ask for it back. He told us if someone slaps us, to turn our face. This is why I find it hard to accept conservative theology. Most conservatives support war, yet Christ was adamantly against it! But let me be clear, this doesn't mean Liberal theology is correct, either. I am a libertarian, with right and left leanings. But, I don't think I am correct on all, or most issues, either.

Buddhism
It depends what part of Buddhism. If it teaches what the Bible teaches, there is nothing wrong. I have prayed some Islamic prayers. You see, there's nothing wrong with taking other parts of religion, to my mind, as long as you use it to worship the proper G-D. Why does G-D care if I call Him most merciful, most compassionate? He is, isn't He?

Swearing
Ironically, many Christians will say swearing is a sin. Yet, it is never condemned once in the Bible. The only foul word considered in the Bible is to use G-D's name in vain. Which, I believe means more than just saying, "Oh my G-D," or "G-D d-mmit!" etc. The Bible, does say, however, that every word out of our mouth should be wholesome. Edifying. Shedding grace on those who hear our words, etc. So, no, I don't think saying Sh-t, f-ck, b-tch, etc. are bad. But, if your conscience condemns you, then, yes, it is bad. It is more of a social standard. We were raised being told they were bad words, so our conscience condemns us. Personally, I swear. But I use it around people who are comfortable hearing it. I.E. my wife doesn't mind. But, my Grandparents would. Most church people would. So, like Paul, I keep certain things in private and do not boast what my freedom in Christ allows me to do. I would say in most cases, it is a sin. But, used wisely, it is not. Often, it is the heart behind the swearing that is a sin, usually anger.

Underage Sex
I am uncertain what you mean by this. If you mean pre-marital, I will give you my view. I believe the Bible's definition of marriage is sex. That is, once you have sex, you have been united with that person in a way you cannot take back. I do not believe marriage has to be recognized by some government institution. In fact, in Early Christianity, the Christians were considered atheists and anarchists. In the Old Testament, marriage is often equated to "knowing" someone, which is to sleep with in an intimate way. I don't believe there is such things as being "underage," but I do believe there is a way to use your sexuality in an immoral way. Even though I am married, I do not consider my marriage a proper marriage because the government recognizes it as one, but because I've slept with my wife.

Thinking of Death
Death is united with resurrection to true life. The Christian views this world as a passing. In fact, this life is depressing. The only true hope is in death. So, why would that be a sin? However, Paul commends us to think about whatever is true, whatever is holy, noble, and pure. So, in that sense, yes, it could be. But for me?

I look forward to dying.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 6th 2012, 08:11 PM

The bible tells us to protect our bodies, so I would say that self harm probably is. I've been guilty of that one in the past too.

Same with suicide attempts, plus because that's killing and not trusting that God would get you through the bad time.

Suffering a mental illness is not a sin.

I'm not sure about the defending yourself one. Pray about it.

I'm not sure about the quotes from Buddism either. The bible says to not take part in things involving false idols/false gods, which Buddah is...but there are a few little quotes here and there that don't go against the bible and are truthful, so I don't know. Pray about that too.

The bible says not to use vulgar language, but it doesn't specify which words are and aren't bad. For example, in some parts of America, crap is considered a swear word, and in some places it's not. I just don't say anything that I wouldn't say if Jesus was standing in front of me.

Sex being okay or not okay doesn't depend on your age, it depends on if you are married or not. If a 15 year old was married, having sex would be fine for them. But on the other hand, if a 40 year old wasn't married, having sex would be a sin for them. Sex is something that God created for marriage, reguardless of age.

For the last one...hmmm...the bible does say to think about pure/truthful things and not pollute your mind with bad things.....but I think everyone day dreams sometimes and thinks about "what if this happened", and I'm not really sure where to draw the line and say "this is sin and this isn't". I don't know.

However, please remember that trying to keep the commandments perfectly is not how you get to Heaven. We have all messed up and sinned at some point and would all be going to hell to take the punishment for our sins. But, Jesus came to die on the cross and take that punishment for us (which He could do because He was sinless) and then rose again three days later to defeat our sins. Anyone who accepts His free gift to save them from sin will be saved and washed clean of sin once and for all. If you want to know how to do that or want to know more, go to www.themostimportantthing.webs.com and click on "Why Do I Need Jesus?". There are 3 short paragraphs there that will expalin everything in more detail.
   
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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 07:04 AM

thanx everyone


~ Words scar, Rumors destroy and bullies kill ~
~ I'm just another nobody.
~ You can't tell how much suffering is on a face that's always smiling </3
~ Be my friend.
hold me.
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I am small and needy.
Warm me up and breathe me.

❤❤❤
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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 05:29 PM

honestly, live you life to the fullest, live how you want to live, not how some magic man in the sky tells you to live.


What is love? I lost the meaning long ago.
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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I look forward to dying.
Mike... you do intrigue me.

Why exactly to you look forward to dying?


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 11:33 PM

- Self harm This is debatable. I believe it would be a sin, because you shouldn't harm your own self.
- suicide attempts Suicide is a sin, so I believe the attempt is a sin as well
- suffering a mental illness No, this isn't a sin because it's nothing you can control.
- defending yourself when bullied ie. retaliating Not at all. You can't just sit around and let people walk all over you. There's a difference between going after to hurt someone and self defense.
- using quotes from Buddhism to live by as advice for your life No, not as long as you don't believe in any other god but God himself
- swearing Swearing is a sin
- underage sex Underage sex itself isn't a sin, because back in the day people as young as 11 or 12 were expected to get married and start a family. But, sex before marriage is sinful.
- thinking about and fascinating over the dark side of life ie. death , inner emotions , depression , sadness, darkness Sadness and depression are natural things that the body feels. There is no sin in that at all.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenonsteroids View Post
Mike... you do intrigue me.

Why exactly to you look forward to dying?
Because, I believe after death, love and peace will rule. Hate, war, and injustice will finally end. And the forgotten will be exalted. This doesn't exclude me from seeking this on Earth, but I believe selfishness will be done away with. And to me, thats exciting. I believe life is found in death.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 7th 2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Because, I believe after death, love and peace will rule. Hate, war, and injustice will finally end. And the forgotten will be exalted. This doesn't exclude me from seeking this on Earth, but I believe selfishness will be done away with. And to me, thats exciting. I believe life is found in death.
So you find that idea liberating, don't you?


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 8th 2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenonsteroids View Post
So you find that idea liberating, don't you?
Liberating? I guess. I feel that sometimes we focus too much on the eternal state of people, rather than the injustice being done here and now. However, when I know that "on Earth as it is in Heaven" will one day be done, it is, I guess, liberating. I do not view death a mournful, or a terrifying thing, save those reserved for G-D's wrath, I pity them, and do not wish that for fate for anyone. But, the purity that will become of us all in the next life, is, of course, liberating. As Kierkegaard lamented, "Oh! To will one thing!" Purity of heart will be completed. And that is definitely liberating.

I feel that death isn't really "death." But rather, another part of life. A better part of life. We seek equality and all these humanistic things on Earth to make a better life. Well, I find that these things are resolved in death, yet death isn't the end.

I am kind of rambling because death is a mystery to me. I feel like we speak as if, "Oh death is the end. Death is bad." But is it really? What's so bad about it? Even if I weren't a Christian. What's so bad about death? But, given that I am a Christian, the only thing I am terrified of is G-D, when I die. However, I know those who have seen G-D, were always terrified, yet G-D would tell them, "Chill out. It's me. I love you." Yeah, He is terrifying, but He always comforts those He loves. So, I fear G-D. I fear meeting Him. But it's exciting.

I don't quite no how to explain it. You know how you have a bad day and you're like, "I can't wait for this day to end." Then you get to lay down on the couch, or in your bed, and read, or watch TV, sit on the laptop, and relax? That's how I view death. Right now is the, "I can't wait for this to end." But, once it ends, it'll be sweet. And I don't mean to sound as if this life is pointless to me, it's not. But what is next will be so much better that this life should be rather pointless.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 8th 2012, 03:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I feel that death isn't really "death." But rather, another part of life. A better part of life. We seek equality and all these humanistic things on Earth to make a better life. Well, I find that these things are resolved in death, yet death isn't the end.
I agree about death being another part of life, so many people seek a place where we don't have to worry about other people judging us , war, global issues, finance problems , relationship problems etc. Death is defiantly a new stage we come to in our life , our life doesn't just simply 'stop ' . Death is where we are free of problems and allowed to rest in peace . If our life simply did stop why would the words R.I.P exist since resting generally refers to something living ....


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I am small and needy.
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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 8th 2012, 09:49 AM

Mike is the main reason why you view death that way because you're Christian? I.e you want to meet god? You know, just chill with him for the rest of time.

I'll make a separate thread for this if you wish, I feel like I'm hijacking this thread


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 8th 2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenonsteroids View Post
Mike is the main reason why you view death that way because you're Christian? I.e you want to meet god? You know, just chill with him for the rest of time.

I'll make a separate thread for this if you wish, I feel like I'm hijacking this thread
Even when I wasn't Christian, I didn't really view death itself as something bad. But the way I view death now is shaped by my Christian beliefs. If you have more questions, start a thread or PM me.


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Re: Sins - Christianity ? - April 10th 2012, 06:22 AM

Different people are going to tell you different things. If you take a literal biblical translation and apply it to these, yes, some of them are technically sins. But I don't really look at any of them that way. It's not about individual pieces, but about the greater whole. The spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

First of all, I'm well acquainted with almost every item on that list, so I know what space you are in when all those things are going on in your life. It's very dark, very sad and very scary. They say all is fair in love and war, and to an extent I think that applies here. If you're self harming and attempting suicide you ARE at war: with yourself. And while it's certainly not a pass on everything, you don't need to be thinking about whether you are sinning or not. That's not really what's important at that point. If you're dead, it doesn't really matter, and many of us are already half dead at that point. So the main focus is to keep yourself ALIVE and safe and healthy. You can worry about the rest later, when you are actually safe again.

But I have a different take on life, and the Bible, than some other people.

Some people see fit to take every little thing literally, to mark every little thing that's good or bad, selfless or sinful. I don't think you can live life that way. I don't believe the Bible was ever meant to be taken that way, because frankly, I don't see God tallying up every absolute little thing you ever did right or wrong and drawing up a little ticket that says "Heaven" or "Hell" at the end of your life. God, at least the God I know, doesn't micromanage. Are you supposed to fear Him? Yes. But you're not supposed to be AFRAID of Him.

Instead, I look at the Bible and take the over all message of it.

The God I know is a God of power, but a God of love. A God that wishes kindness, and charity, and peace, and compassion, and kindness, and generosity, and joy. A God that loves all things, that wants us to love ourselves, and that wants us to love all of his creation. He is a God of awe, a God of inspiration, and the Creator of life itself, across galaxies and beyond.

I think what's important is to not look at what is an exact, prohibited sin, or at what sin you can or can't get away with, but at the real message of it all: of love. I think that means loving yourself, loving others, and loving and honoring God. And engaging in actions and words that are in harmony with those things.

Does that mean you need to sit back and take it if a bully punches you? No. In fact, you shouldn't. One should avoid fighting back PHYSICALLY, but one should retaliate, as an act of love for oneself.

Does it mean you aren't a "real" Christian if you follow buddhist philosophies? Absolutely not. There are many other world religions that have something to be learned from them, messages of love and kindness and wisdom on how to lead a loving, harmonious, peaceful life. I firmly believe you should never close your mind to something that just might offer you further wholeness to your life.

Swearing and premarital sex are pretty spelled out. Are they the most wholesome things? No. Swearing causes agitation and dissonance. But I personally don't find it terrible if it is used in moderation and in the right circumstances (ones that won't offend others). And I believe that sex is meant to be shared with people that you really care about, but aren't necessarily married to. Marriage has been made to fit a certain image, but I believe it can suit a marriage of the soul as well.

Life has many facets, and they should all be pondered; light AND dark. It's important to be open to all life's facets, even if they seem dark and dreary. The important thing is to remember to still live with a sense of peace and joy. Don't dwell, but don't try to block them out, either.

These are MY personal take on sin. You are going to have to find your own. I could never deign to tell someone how to run their relationship with God. But this is how I live MY life, and this is what I believe: I don't believe sin is meant to destroy us or persecute us or punish us, but instead to guide us to live a better life. And that is what I strive to do in my own life, and my own relationship with God.

I hope you can find what is right for YOU.



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