Labels and classifications

[LittleMiss]

Okay so this may be a little confusing and I really want to get this out of my head in the right way and not be misunderstood.
This is a concept in my head that is a little jumbled and very hard to put into words.

We live in a pretty monogamous society, yeah? You're generally going to be with one particular person at any one time.
They might be the most attractive person to you that you know and there are particular things that attract you about them.

If I am asked about my sexuality, I will quantify as 'mainly straight'. Because that's what people can easily identify and understand that. But that's not how I like to think, it's just that it's easier to explain that way.

Okay, with that in mind now think, there are certain things that you may look for in a partner right? Like, me? I prefer dark hair. I think it's really attractive. But only on some people.
Now take for instance, I'm not very attracted to people of Asian ethnicity, don't take me the wrong way, I am not trying to be racist, it's like, I'm not very attracted to blondes, they just don't do it for me.
(By the way, I am part Asian, just sayin)
So, you could say that I am attracted to some men and not others.
It's like, just because someone is straight, doesn't mean they're attracted to every single man on the planet.

I guess what I am sort of trying to say in a really weird way is that, gender is just a facet of your identity. When people say that they are attracted to men or attracted to women, that's not necessarily true, they are attracted to some men or some women.
So personally, I would say I am attracted to people. And it depends of the person. And my preferences.

I suppose what I want to come out of that is that I don't feel the need to label people based off of the gender of the people they are attracted to because they aren't attracted to all of them? Should I be branded a brunophile because I prefer dark hair? No, that's unnecessary classification and I'm not attracted to all dark haired men.

I think that your attraction to different people is different as they have many different attributes.
So why classify? Why label?
Someone labelled as a lesbian has a preference for the attribute of being female. But it's not necessarily the only thing they are attracted to. It just means that there are things about women they are attracted to.
Urgh, now I'm sure I'm being confusing. asdfhjkl;
Why can't concepts be easy to explain?
If anyone gets what I'm talking about it, please tell me?

I guess I'm trying to say is, why should people be identified by sexual preference? It's just silly.
When people first look at me, they don't think about my preference for brown-haired people. So why should we constantly label and identify people with their gender preference. It's just an attribute.
I am a woman. I have two X-chromosomes. I also have skin, hair, eyes, a mouth, a nose, fingers and toes etc.
Men also have skin, hair, eyes, a mouth, a nose, fingers and toes. In that respect, I share attributes to a man. Big deal?
I'm still a human being. So is the next person you talk to. Gender is not the only thing you're attracted to, otherwise all women or men should look the same, talk the same and be the same.
I am not only considered in terms of my gender. I am more than just a woman. I am a woman with fingers and toes. And hair and eyes.

Anyway, I am making no sense.
But yeah. Why classify people? Why classify yourself?
You're attracted to the girl who sits next to you in chemistry, you're attracted to her because of all her different attributes not just because she's a girl. But you might not be attracted to the girl in your english class. It depends on the individual. So why classify based on the specific people you are/aren't attracted to?

I hope I made a smidgeon of sense there.
Everyone is a person. A human. An individual.
So why should we label.
I'm all for loving people. People can be attractive. Some people are not. And even though it's personal preference, who cares.

[Celestial.]

Hey Christine.

I actually read all that... and, what's more, I understood it.

Seriously, though, I really do think you have a point. I've never been a big fan of labels and classifications either - partly because preferences can change, partly because sexuality is only one part of a person and not their whole identity, and partly because, in some ways, it can be restricting or misleading. For example, I identify as a lesbian because that's what's easiest to explain. It doesn't mean I'll never fall for a man, or that I fall for every girl I see. It just means that, overall, I prefer girls. That's why usually when I come out, I just say, 'I like girls' - I don't give myself a label, or justify my feelings, or say that it means I don't like men. I just say what I prefer.

I definitely agree with the idea of being attracted to people rather than genders. I fall for people because of their personalities and, yes, to some extent, their appearance, not just because they happen to be the gender I identify as being attracted to. Sometimes I feel like once you come out as LGBT etc, it's all people think once they see you - which is weird, because I don't come across my heterosexual friends and think, 'Oh, they're straight'. And in some ways, I don't like the whole coming out process - if straight people don't have to tell people what their preference is, why should people who like the same gender have to? Sexual orientation is part of you, like whether you prefer white chocolate or dark - and we don't feel the need to announce that, do we?

Anyway. My point is, I see where you're coming from, and I agree. But on the other hand, labels can be useful - giving you a sense of identity, of community, of security. That's why so many people use them. I think it's fine to label or classify yourself - as long as you don't let it completely define you. Does that make sense?

[LittleMiss]

Originally Posted by Sidhe.

Hey Christine.

I actually read all that... and, what's more, I understood it.

Seriously, though, I really do think you have a point. I've never been a big fan of labels and classifications either - partly because preferences can change, partly because sexuality is only one part of a person and not their whole identity, and partly because, in some ways, it can be restricting or misleading. For example, I identify as a lesbian because that's what's easiest to explain. It doesn't mean I'll never fall for a man, or that I fall for every girl I see. It just means that, overall, I prefer girls. That's why usually when I come out, I just say, 'I like girls' - I don't give myself a label, or justify my feelings, or say that it means I don't like men. I just say what I prefer.

I definitely agree with the idea of being attracted to people rather than genders. I fall for people because of their personalities and, yes, to some extent, their appearance, not just because they happen to be the gender I identify as being attracted to. Sometimes I feel like once you come out as LGBT etc, it's all people think once they see you - which is weird, because I don't come across my heterosexual friends and think, 'Oh, they're straight'. And in some ways, I don't like the whole coming out process - if straight people don't have to tell people what their preference is, why should people who like the same gender have to? Sexual orientation is part of you, like whether you prefer white chocolate or dark - and we don't feel the need to announce that, do we?

Anyway. My point is, I see where you're coming from, and I agree. But on the other hand, labels can be useful - giving you a sense of identity, of community, of security. That's why so many people use them. I think it's fine to label or classify yourself - as long as you don't let it completely define you. Does that make sense?

That's exactly what I mean!
I think the issue I have is that there are so many people who let that label or classification destroy them either because they're scared or ashamed!
It's just a label, nothing else, it doesn't change the fact that you are a human being.

[Marguerite]

I definitely understand what you're saying, and you're right, we shouldn't let labels define us. I've always been curious about people who define themselves by their sexuality, because I've always considered it a facet of ones life, rather than the all important factor of said life.

I don't understand, however, why people think 'label' is a dirty word. I've also always been curious to this, as I don't think all labels are inherintly bad. I'm an Australian. I'm female. I'm a student. These things don't define me but they are part of who I am. If you ask me what I do for a living, I'm just going to say student, rather than something like "I learn, you know? I go and get educated. I surround myself with knowledge and get taught by others." I think that's just silly because it's so much easier to just say student. If everyone refused to label themselves there would be a lot of boring, drawn out, confusing conversations.

I get why sexuality is different. Say you're bisexual, and you're preference is round about 10% female and 90% male. I get why that might be difficult to explain to people, but I think refusing to give yourself a label and just vaguely trying to explain to people that you just 'like people' and that it's complicated and you're not defined by who you are attracted too and blah blah blah just makes it even more difficult for yourself. I definitely think that if the latter is the truth then you should tell people that if they are important to you, but on a day to day basis it's probably just easier to call yourself bisexual, or maybe bisexual with a preference towards men.

[LittleMiss]

Originally Posted by Marguerite

I definitely understand what you're saying, and you're right, we shouldn't let labels define us. I've always been curious about people who define themselves by their sexuality, because I've always considered it a facet of ones life, rather than the all important factor of said life.

I don't understand, however, why people think 'label' is a dirty word. I've also always been curious to this, as I don't think all labels are inherintly bad. I'm an Australian. I'm female. I'm a student. These things don't define me but they are part of who I am. If you ask me what I do for a living, I'm just going to say student, rather than something like "I learn, you know? I go and get educated. I surround myself with knowledge and get taught by others." I think that's just silly because it's so much easier to just say student. If everyone refused to label themselves there would be a lot of boring, drawn out, confusing conversations.

I get why sexuality is different. Say you're bisexual, and you're preference is round about 10% female and 90% male. I get why that might be difficult to explain to people, but I think refusing to give yourself a label and just vaguely trying to explain to people that you just 'like people' and that it's complicated and you're not defined by who you are attracted too and blah blah blah just makes it even more difficult for yourself. I definitely think that if the latter is the truth then you should tell people that if they are important to you, but on a day to day basis it's probably just easier to call yourself bisexual, or maybe bisexual with a preference towards men.

I guess the reason why 'label' can be perceived as a dirty word is because some people use labels to hurt others.
But I think it is okay to use them as a way of shortening explanations and for ease of communication, too many people take them far too seriously

[TheCrowing]

I think that's the biggest issue with telling others that you are attracted to both sexes today. Many people automatically think that just because you may be a girl and you like girls, that you're def. attracted to them or every other girl. Or they fear that you'll be attracted to them. But really, it has nothing to do with that. They don't like every guy they see, like said above, so why would they think that you fall for every girl. It's ridiculous really. I understand the difference between that and not totally feeling comfortable around it, but the line isn't as vague as a lot of people wish it was. They confuse the unknown with this theory of the same sex liking them just because they like the same sex.

[Invert]

Welcome to the world of identity politics

Before I start my really long post, I want to point out that I see where you are coming from, and I think in an ideal world, 'sexual identity' would be less of an issue. But identity is formed for lots of reasons. My post covers some (but not all) of the things I've sort of noticed over my years of TH and life (mine and friends).

Labels can be both restricting and beneficial, sometimes even both at the same time. They can help with other people (for example, you telling others that you are mostly straight) or with yourself (especially if you are trying to find where you fit.

Unfortunately, we seem to see ourselves in relation to others. So in the instant of sexuality, if everyone around you, appear to be 'enitrely straight', and you aren't, it will make some people feel set apart from all the people you know, and you are 'different'. In such situations, labels can help. It can help you feel that you belong, because you know others use such a label, because they have similar feelings. Labels can also help because it isn't uncommon for you to feel that you need to explain yourself if you are 'different'.

Another big issue why labels become important, and a 'defining' feature of oneself, is when you experience discrimination. If the 'majority' has excluded you, or even actively rejected you in some way, because of your sexuality, it becomes a defining feature of you, often involuntarily. And this can manifest in a few ways, two of which are a) you may become really closeted and hide it, so that people don't treat you different, or b) you take hold of the thing you've been rejected for, and you become proud of it, and this leads on to an identity. There are other results, but it seems these are the most common two.

Along the same lines, I find that from my experience with straight people, where I'm a big tomboy, that if its found out that I like girls, or I've been with girls, regardless of my feelings for boys, people will decide I'm a lesbian. I'm not a lesbian, but almost every straight person I know, including my brother, has decided I am. Thankfully, I have enough sense of self to not let that define me, but say someone is struggling, being labelled by others may encourage you to take on a certain label. And those within the 'majority' are going to label you, due to this stupid 'them and us' mentality we tend to take.

At the same time, labels are useful to use in explaining things to others. Take me again for example, I'm primarily into girls. Although I do find I liek guys sometimes, I would really prefer guys not to hit on me. So I'll explain to them that I prefer girls in hoping they get the picture. I may also want to use a label that implies I'm into girls, so that if I come across a girl who also likes girls sometimes, she'd be aware I may be interested.

I think most of us on TH live in societies where 'sexuality' is a topic that is expected to be labelled. People want to know if you are 'gay, straight or bi'. I find even when I explain 'Im mostly into girls, but sometimes like guys', that people almost demand that I 'decide' if I'm bi or gay. I think ideally, we shouldn't have to use our sexuality as such a visible label, but unfortunately, we don't yet live in that world. Of course, if there are people who don't feel the need to conform to that, well done to them, but I do understand why it might be something some feel the need to identify with.

I don't know how well I explained myself. I'll admit, I'm a tad tipsy, and a bit tired. But in essence, labels are important to help you find your place sometimes, or because they are almost forcefully pushed on you.

On a more optimistic note, it does seem that things are slowly changing, especially in the younger generations. As more people are becoming accepting of 'different sexualities', its becoming less of an issue, and a lot more youth some to be taking on 'fluid sexualities'.

[Loving Linux Penguin]

I feel like the human race gets too caught up in labels, particularly regarding sexuality--in some sort of unnecessary attempt to make sense of what we do not understand. In fact, the label almost RESTRICTS what people can understand.

Here are stereotypical incarnations of some common labels:
Gay = A boy that is completely feminized and talks different than everyone else, and exclusively prefers to have sex/relationships with other boys.

Lesbian = A girl that may or may not be masculinized, and exclusively prefers to have sex/relationships with other girls.

Straight = A "normal" person who only prefers the opposite gender.

Bisexual = A person that may be unusually masculine or feminine as compared to their perceived sex, and supposedly likes both genders equally.

So, when I tell people that I mostly prefer boys, they so "Oh, you're gay?" as if "Gay" was the only way for them to comprehend. However, I imagine that SOME people would never think that I am "Gay" because I don't fit any of the stereotypes whatsoever. These labels have become a certain stereotypical manifestation where certain preferences = certain characteristics, and certain characteristics = certain preference. I find it pretty offensive when people assume that because I do not look, act, or sound "gay" that I prefer exclusively girls. Labels are an overall sickening disaster, and I hope one day we have a world in which our identity and preferences are not determined based on presence, or lack, of certain stereotypical characteristics. Most people run on the rule "someone is straight until proven otherwise", however I really wish that we could dismantle these labels and just run on the rule "people prefer whomever they prefer and it is how it is". I hope I'm making sense :P

[The Morrigan]

I definitely get what you're saying. I've felt like this for a long time and unless someone outright asks me I don't really mention my sexuality. I guess I agree with Tegan about labels being used to communicate stuff to other people.

I'm one of those people who believes that if you meet the right person, regardless of gender, then you can fall in love with them.

I think the reason why people do use labels to define themselves is because it makes them feel like they belong. Like, if someone's gay then there's a lot of gay people out there so they're in a group kind of. Not sure if that makes sense I'm horrible at explaining these types of things.

I do agree with Chris that stereotypes have made labels kind of redundant in a way since not every gay guy will be feminine and not every lesbian will be masculine and it gets even more complicated when gender identity comes into it too.