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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 01:56 AM

Goddamn. I never thought I'd post another depressive fit on a support forum. I'm that pathetic, I guess. Well, hey, whatever.

So, I'm really pretty ugly, right? Yeah, you might say that there's still time to grow into my looks, but I truly doubt it. I look at myself and I see death. No really, being so pale, I'm what Meryl Streep's skeleton looks like if you make it walk around, being extra nice to everybody (totally not taken from Fight Club).

Being an ugly guy sucks, and I will cry about it. Beta this, beta that. My genes are inferior. Yes. I got the bad end of the stick.

Unfortunately, due to my utterly terrible appearance and figure (underweight, 175cm tall, weigh editedkg), I can't even approach any fellow comradesses, because I know they'll throw me away as soon as I ask.

So, is there actually a point? I have my sights set on one. Everyone seems to think she's ugly, I see her as a straight-up 9/10. But I've been contemplating it for three long months, planning on giving up on all of this altogether.

Being ugly is hell. I might even post a picture later, but I'll have to make extra sure I don't see myself accidentally. Of course, there are worse hells. But as a relatively healthy person (I think), I live by a different scale than those with way worse lives. Of course it could be worse. It could always be worse. But screw it anyway.

Last edited by Hypothesis.; June 9th 2017 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Please don't include weight numbers. :)
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 04:57 AM

The thing is, you think you are ugly but it is quite possible that nobody else does. We are our own worst critic, and with the media it can be hard to maintain a positive self image when we see super thin women with shiny hair, or men with six pack abs everywhere. Everyone's standard of beauty looks differently, though. I'm sure you've seen couples out in public, and you probably thought they weren't attractive. Yet, they think each other is. We all have different preferences, and personality is thrown into the mix as well.

I dated a guy a few years ago whom I didn't find attractive at first glance, but once I got to know him I fell pretty hard. Your age says you are only 16 years old, and you really are still young. I know a lot of people personally who didn't go on their first date until they were in their 20's. You have your whole life ahead of you for dating, so why be depressed now over something you can't change? Focus on friendships right now. Those are a lot more meaningful because friends will like you for who you are. Relationships can be tricky because a lot of people date someone just because they find them attractive. It's shallow, and doesn't last.

Obviously it's easier said than done, but try not to focus on what you look like so much. There's a lot of more important things in life than the way you look. There's a whole world out there, and I promise, people aren't looking down on you over your looks. You'll find someone in time, just relax and let it happen when it does.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 05:02 AM

There is always a point in trying, because if you don't try, you'll never get what you want.

There are so many posts like this on this website. "I really like them, but I'm too afraid to ask them out/talk to them." Truth time: in most cases your crush isn't suddenly going to come up to you and profess their love. Someone has to make the first move. Often, that person is you. You have to go after what you want. You have to ask them out. If you don't, I can pretty much guarantee you nothing will ever happen.

The only thing that stops most people is a fear of rejection. I get it; you think you're ugly. Society brainwashes everyone into thinking they should look a certain way to be appealing; there's thousands of entire marketing campaigns built upon it. But just because you think you're ugly doesn't mean you are. There might be someone out there who is attracted to you. It might take more time than it does with a man who is conventionally attractive, but that's not a bad thing. If anything it's a way to build a more solid foundation for a potential relationship. Think of that as an advantage.

I went on a bit of a tangent there, but as I was saying, rejection: yeah, it sucks. It sucks when someone you like turns you down. It can be a real blow to one's self-esteem. But even with that chance, it's still important to ask. If you don't ask you'll be forever tortured with fantasies about what might've been had you been more forward with your crush. Isn't it better to honestly know than to daydream? I've personally always found I'd rather know what's going on then spending my time fantasizing about a future with my crush that will never happen if I don't ask.

If you do ask, forget about what society tells you about looks. After all, you say everyone thinks she's ugly but you see her as a 10. That says something right there. So introduce yourself. Ask questions about her, her interests, her life. Share anecdotes about yours as things tend to open up. See where things go. Most importantly, be yourself. It's hard to keep up a lie once things really start going along.

Good luck and PM me if you need anything else.



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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 07:27 AM

Who's this woman everyone thinks is ugly, but you see her as a 9/10? How is that possible?




(and, of course, does the answer also work in reverse?)
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 08:20 AM

I think that you should consider talking to this girl and getting to know her and then going from there.

I believe that everyone is attractive to someone. Every single person in the world has things they look for in a partner, have different things they find attractive and unattractive. So, it is very likely that there are people who aren't going to find you attractive but I assure you there are going to be people who find you attractive as well.

I used to struggle a lot with this as well. I grew up in a family where being thin was the only way you were attractive. Every single time someone in my family would describe someone as being attractive they would discuss how they had such a great body and were thin. I am not thin and on top of my families comments I also dealt with societies. Due to this and a few other things, I was afraid to date. I ended up getting talked into trying online dating when I was 23 turning 24 and I ended up realizing that there were guys out there who did find me attractive. A year later I ended up connecting with someone who has become my boyfriend and we've been dating for a bit over 2 years.

I know these concerns can be really hard to deal with. I know the fear of rejection can be really hard to imagine...let alone if it ends up happening. However, the sting of rejection will only last a short while and if you don't ever take the leap to see what could happen you'll always be left wondering what might have been.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 03:10 PM

Thank you all, responders.

To answer the first question, how is it possible that I find her attractive while seemingly no one else does? I don't know, really. I actually used to think the same as them, but upon closer inspection of not only appearance, but also general behavior, something lit a raging fire. Happened from one day to the next, very suddenly.

See, most people think she's fat, or so they claim. It's not true. Far from the truth. Definitely not as thin as some others we have (engineering school, we only have like 5 per 100 guys), but I'd lie if I said that I fancy the thin ones. Honest to God, don't mind a little more weight at all.

I'm not really afraid of rejection per se. In fact, I don't think I'd feel down for too long at all. I live for plenty of other things as well. But for some Goddamn reason I can't get myself to do it! I don't know the reason, it's just rooted so deeply into my mind that I am a social reject beta that I can't get past it.

As for the media, maybe you're right. But then again, there are certain traits that are reasonably considered attractive. I lack pretty much all of them. Tall forehead, long hair, messed up eye shape, lips worthy of an escort. I can post a picture if you would like, but I'm not sure what the rules and regulations are in that matter, so I'd rather know before I do something stupid. I'd like to believe I sometimes get friendly looks in public, but... It's probably wishful thinking on my part. We had a glance contest with one on public transportation once, complete stranger, but I think she was likely looking at something behind me rather than me. After all, how could anyone genuinely look at me pleasantly.

I must say, though, that I don't quite understand with the weight thing. Having a low weight like I do is not good at all. It's actually detrimental to my health. For some reason, I have a damn fast metabolism and just can't gain more! Odd, eh?

Last edited by Sanctus Lupus; June 9th 2017 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Adding some stuff.
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 03:31 PM

hey, pal. gonna skip past the whole you're-probably-attractive-be-more-self-confident bullshit monologue and ask, have you ever considered maybe someone feels the way about you that you feel about her?
okay, let's be pessimists and assume, in a worst case scenario, that you're ugly as you think you are. in this scenario, maybe other people think you're ugly. but the basis of a relationship is an emotional connection! maybe someone has that same connection with you and sees through your perceived 'undesirable' traits- maybe even this girl you're talking about.
besides, looks don't last forever. even majestic people like chris pratt and katy perry are gonna become old and wrinkled one day, so there's no point in choosing a life partner- or being chosen to be one- based on physical features. would you want someone who only likes you for a fleeting appearance? i sure as hell wouldn't.
as for not being able to ask her out, it's not as excruciating as it seems. sure, it feels like you're being dissected when you say it, but after, you're really proud of yourself for putting yourself out there- even if you get rejected. plan a shitty little way to ask her out and spit it out to her like it's poison. even if you look like a dumbfuck in the way you do it, if she likes you she'll go for it. and if she doesn't? it's a problem with her, not you.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 9th 2017, 03:42 PM

Hm, I don't know man... I really do have some bad traits. Hell, even my lads tell me I can't be picky. But yes, I agree. That's probably why I like her so much without even knowing her. She expresses personality traits that I'm absolutely mad for, along with an appearance that is, to me personally, paired with said traits, utterly worth dying for.

But hey, most people aren't like me in that respect. Most of us are superficial. It's just a fact of life that's necessary to maintain strength in the genetic code. I don't know if I have a good personality, maybe I do. I know I'm a good talker, and knowing how good I can be with people when I try, I can't help but imagine how great I'd do if I looked a little better. All of this is frankly not enough though.

I don't think she likes me back, to be honest. I never get any looks, and glances, nothing. Then again, we do see each other at most once a day, very briefly, and she does seem like the more reserved type. But I still doubt that my affection would ever be genuinely returned.

I can be as courteous as I please, but I fear that it won't net me much. I'm still willing to put up a picture of myself, but again, I don't know the rules regarding posting pictures.
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 10th 2017, 05:50 AM

first of all, fuck your "lads". i'm guessing what they mean by "being picky" is having standards, and you are just as deserving of anyone as having standards. i know this is probably going in one ear and out the other, as i've dealt with a lot of self-deprecating people and know how they work (including myself, at one point), so i'll spare you the "you deserve this" and "you're better than that" bs. simply because the only person who can ever get you to truly believe that you deserve whatever you desire in life, and that you are better than what you think of yourself, is you.

speaking of ugliness in terms of getting girls, no, that is definitely not a reason to give up all hope. trust me, i have seen some of the most conventionally unattractive dudes have a much more active sex life than a decently attractive looking dude. the one, single reason for that is confidence. of course, overly arrogant confidence is annoying and disgusting, but just the right amount of self-esteem and charm can move mountains for you.

talk to her. honestly. the more reserved types of people are the best people to go strike up conversation with, at least in my experience. from what i've seen, they almost never judge you for approaching them, because they often automatically feel inferior. and that's really sad. because they feel like "less than", they don't know how to put themselves out there and make conversation, even though they probably really want to. therefore, they become more reserved.
so it's really this whole cycle that creates that attitude, and for someone more shy and reserved it can mean the world for someone to come up to us and make us feel a little less lonely and unwanted.
(of course i could be way off about her, but i'm just speaking in generalizations from what i've seen.)

one thing you said really stood out to me, and this is why i think it's really important to learn how to look at yourself objectively.
you said most people seem to think this girl is ugly, when you think she's a 9/10.
if everyone had the exact same, society-defined standards for attraction, that would never happen. so let me humor you and say that you are as unattractive as you say you are. even if everyone else seems to think you're ugly, there is without a doubt someone who would call you a 9/10 too.
i have seen it happen so many times. even with an ex-boyfriend of mine, everyone teased me for liking him because he was so "ugly". but i had such deep feelings for him because i befriended him first. once i saw how amazing a person he was, i kind of fell in love with in from the inside out. and after i had feelings for him, his "unattractive" features became so endearing and adorable to me.
love works from the inside out like that sometimes, and that's actually more admirable than the instinctual attraction based on physical aspects.
it all starts with friendship, which is why i say GO TALK TO THIS GIRL. you said you don't fear rejection, so don't worry about it. and learn to love yourself or else no one will love you.
i don't mean to sound harsh, but i do believe in something called a self-fulfilling prophecy. if you learn to give off the right positive attitude, people will return that positive attitude. if you continue with this negative attitude towards yourself, people will reciprocate that.

also, if you really don't like the way you look, work to change it. i used to have a hella bad self image. what i did was write down all the tiny physical characteristics that i absolutely hated about myself, and then wrote whether i could change it or not. if i could change it, i would write out an action plan on how to do that. if i couldn't change it, i would write out how i could work on accepting it, and highlighting something i did like instead.

PM me if you want to talk. best of luck to you man.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 10th 2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison.ivy View Post
first of all, fuck your "lads". i'm guessing what they mean by "being picky" is having standards, and you are just as deserving of anyone as having standards. i know this is probably going in one ear and out the other, as i've dealt with a lot of self-deprecating people and know how they work (including myself, at one point), so i'll spare you the "you deserve this" and "you're better than that" bs. simply because the only person who can ever get you to truly believe that you deserve whatever you desire in life, and that you are better than what you think of yourself, is you.

speaking of ugliness in terms of getting girls, no, that is definitely not a reason to give up all hope. trust me, i have seen some of the most conventionally unattractive dudes have a much more active sex life than a decently attractive looking dude. the one, single reason for that is confidence. of course, overly arrogant confidence is annoying and disgusting, but just the right amount of self-esteem and charm can move mountains for you.

talk to her. honestly. the more reserved types of people are the best people to go strike up conversation with, at least in my experience. from what i've seen, they almost never judge you for approaching them, because they often automatically feel inferior. and that's really sad. because they feel like "less than", they don't know how to put themselves out there and make conversation, even though they probably really want to. therefore, they become more reserved.
so it's really this whole cycle that creates that attitude, and for someone more shy and reserved it can mean the world for someone to come up to us and make us feel a little less lonely and unwanted.
(of course i could be way off about her, but i'm just speaking in generalizations from what i've seen.)

one thing you said really stood out to me, and this is why i think it's really important to learn how to look at yourself objectively.
you said most people seem to think this girl is ugly, when you think she's a 9/10.
if everyone had the exact same, society-defined standards for attraction, that would never happen. so let me humor you and say that you are as unattractive as you say you are. even if everyone else seems to think you're ugly, there is without a doubt someone who would call you a 9/10 too.
i have seen it happen so many times. even with an ex-boyfriend of mine, everyone teased me for liking him because he was so "ugly". but i had such deep feelings for him because i befriended him first. once i saw how amazing a person he was, i kind of fell in love with in from the inside out. and after i had feelings for him, his "unattractive" features became so endearing and adorable to me.
love works from the inside out like that sometimes, and that's actually more admirable than the instinctual attraction based on physical aspects.
it all starts with friendship, which is why i say GO TALK TO THIS GIRL. you said you don't fear rejection, so don't worry about it. and learn to love yourself or else no one will love you.
i don't mean to sound harsh, but i do believe in something called a self-fulfilling prophecy. if you learn to give off the right positive attitude, people will return that positive attitude. if you continue with this negative attitude towards yourself, people will reciprocate that.

also, if you really don't like the way you look, work to change it. i used to have a hella bad self image. what i did was write down all the tiny physical characteristics that i absolutely hated about myself, and then wrote whether i could change it or not. if i could change it, i would write out an action plan on how to do that. if i couldn't change it, i would write out how i could work on accepting it, and highlighting something i did like instead.

PM me if you want to talk. best of luck to you man.
That was indeed very enlightening. See, I have this odd double-standard aimed at myself, where although I know certain things (ugly men with beautiful women) can happen, I automatically believe that they cannot include me.

This is a severe mental issue, and the core reason for my depressive bouts. I honestly think seeing an expert on mental health would do me some good, but I am a very difficult case. I won't deny that I do have at least somewhat acceptable brains, and I'm afraid that just makes the whole matter worse, since I think, and I think a whole lot. When you think a whole lot, you can also think about yourself in a negative light a whole lot. That, and it's hellishly difficult to occupy me. I've considered drugs and alcohol before, but I wouldn't want to mess myself up beyond the point of return.

There's one lad in particular, who I appreciate very much, who has always encouraged me to do it, to ask. He's actually really helping me push through, and I can't appreciate it enough, but I wish my other friends were just as supportive. I've learned to ignore their teasing (as you wrote, it happened to you as well), hell, I actually make jokes about their poor taste (anorexic models) back.

But yeah. Maybe that's what sparked this raging bonfire to begin with. Like I said, I used to see her as below-average looking as well, but once I spotted her behavioral patterns, that all went away, and even those imperfections became positive.

Or maybe I'm sub-consciously lowering my standards, I don't know. Either way, it doesn't matter. I know what I have wanted for these past three months, I know that it's been eating away at me, punching my grade average hard, and I know what I need to do to get it off my chest once and for all, with the incomprehensibly low chance of something coming of it.

I honestly thank you. This was very helpful indeed. About your PM offer, I may just take you up on that later on.
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 10th 2017, 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctus Lupus View Post
(engineering school, we only have like 5 per 100 guys)
A fellow engineer!

OK I think every engineer should be screened for this, especially the ones who have trouble dating and are depressed, and yes this has everything to do with being an engineer and dating and being depressed:
  • Do you see "information" in other people's eyes? Or does that phrase make little sense?
  • Does the phrase "non-verbal communication" seem like an oxymoron?

(I should have more questions, but those are the only ones I can think of.)

(Sorry if I've already asked these questions.)
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 10th 2017, 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by del677 View Post
A fellow engineer!

OK I think every engineer should be screened for this, especially the ones who have trouble dating and are depressed, and yes this has everything to do with being an engineer and dating and being depressed:
  • Do you see "information" in other people's eyes? Or does that phrase make little sense?
  • Does the phrase "non-verbal communication" seem like an oxymoron?

(I should have more questions, but those are the only ones I can think of.)

(Sorry if I've already asked these questions.)
Indeed, mechanical engineering, my friend! A class full of men, exclusively. Kill me now.

Anyway, to the questions.

- Sure, I see information in people's eyes. You can tell what they're thinking, or at least guess at it, when you gaze into their eyes.
- Not necessarily. Non-verbal communication does make some degree of sense, and it's definitely a valid form of communicating from my point of view.

What does this mean?

Edit: I mean, I think I'm studying mechanical engineering. There's 3 classes of machinists in our first year, one class of IT (where the one I'm fond of happens to be), and then there's us. Nobody really knows what to call us, but we're more advanced than machinists, so most see us as engineers. I don't know though.

Last edited by Sanctus Lupus; June 10th 2017 at 11:22 AM.
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 11th 2017, 06:54 AM

Mechanical Engineering? So am I!

All I need is a paperclip to explain everything I learned in mechanical engineering. Bend the paperclip until it doesn't spring back. That's plastic deformation. Bend it back and forth until it breaks. That's — uh, that's how things break.

Yup. There I just compressed 4 years of college into a paperclip.

Congratulations you're way ahead of me if you see information in other people's eyes. Until recently I thought "non-verbal communication" was an oxymoron and I laughed at the concept. Now I'm starting to get it.

Oh, and yes, there were 100 men and 7 women in my engineering class. I became good friends with 3 of the 7 women, which I thought was pretty good considering the odds against me. We studied together. But we never dated. (Darn!) (One was actually married to some military guy.)

Then to make matters worse, every woman in college I asked if she'd like to go out, they all said the same thing, that they were too busy studying and going to college, that they didn't have any time to go out or have a relationship, which really sounded like they all had very unbalanced lives, way too much school work, with no time for fun and play. Their life would have made me very depressed. Except I actually already was battling clinical depression, because my life didn't have enough (or any) fun in it. (Though it's not obvious which came first: lack of fun, or depression.)

There's an acronym: FOMO
Fear Of Missing Out

That's a big thing that sometimes gets me. You can look it up. It's all over the internet.

Actually I think that parenthetical comment above may be the key here. So often I think I'm depressed because of something, e.g. I'm depressed because I don't have a partner because I'm ugly.

The dominos start with:

"I'm ugly" → "no partner" → "depression"


So often I discover the real sequence is actually in reverse. e.g.:


"I'm depressed" → "distorts all my thinking about the world"

→ I notice I don't have a partner → I conclude it must be because I'm ugly


I only realize this thinking is actually in reverse when I come out of the depression, and I notice my thinking changes to:

"I'm no longer depresssed" → "my thinking about the world changes to something more positive"

→ I notice I don't have a partner → However, I don't feel that I'm ugly, the thought doesn't cross my mind. Instead, I rationalize it's because there are only 5 women in my engineering class of 100 men.


BTW there's another college department out there, unfortunately I forget which one, it might be English, or Philosophy, or Psychology, but one of those departments has the opposite problem, where it's almost entirely full of women, like 100 women and only 5 men. Someone mentioned to me the other day that they try to have this get together of the two departments, the engineering and the {whatever the other one is}, so all the men and all the women meet.

Anyway, I guess the real challenge is to get you out of this depression.

That's a big topic. Basically everyone kind of knows what they need that will help them. Some people like me need to be around people a lot. Others need a lot of alone time. Some (like me) also need medication. A little mild exercise is always good. A structured day. An interesting project to work on. Helping others. Contemplating a spiritual life. Maybe some other people here have some ideas.

Best wishes! good luck on engineering!
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 11th 2017, 11:34 AM

Oh God, Tau permitted in bending of ČSN 11 500 steel, making sure the steel rod survives a certain pressure measured in MPa, measuring the G of a certain cross-section to check how much pressure it can take... That gave me some hell at first, but I got it eventually.

What's harder is technical drawing, I tell you. I'm utterly atrocious at that, especially safety rings or whatever the hell they call them, and tolerances. Tolerances suck. I'd rather just put +0.01 on everything that isn't precise and be done with it.

Anyway, back on topic. You're quite right. That's a good way of seeing it. Perhaps something else triggered depression. However, in my case, I'm almost certain that it's because of this person who violently invaded my life and now occupies much of my thoughts that could be better spent elsewhere. I didn't feel depressed before I realized how scared I am of taking action. I blamed my lack of action on my appearance.

The only way I ever get over it, and it usually brings about a week of sanity, is, as much as I hate to say it, judgment from other people. When I put my face out on the Internet to get judged, it gives me a feeling of certainty. Nobody has told me that I look bad yet, and nobody has told be that I look particularly good either. I'm stuck in my head, and I don't know how I actually look, which makes me slip back into self-deprecation and self-hatred.

Don't know what I'll do about it. I need to force myself to talk to her and just get rejected and be done with it. I know it'll happen, I expect it to happen, and it's a certainty. But it'd let me get depressed for a week and then be done with it.

Now to get the courage to do this insane shit. I'm thinking about the worst-case scenario again, and now it plummeted back down to 0. How in the name of Satan and Hell will I ever get this done?
   
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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 11th 2017, 09:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Sanctus Lupus View Post
That was indeed very enlightening. See, I have this odd double-standard aimed at myself, where although I know certain things (ugly men with beautiful women) can happen, I automatically believe that they cannot include me.

This is a severe mental issue, and the core reason for my depressive bouts. I honestly think seeing an expert on mental health would do me some good, but I am a very difficult case. I won't deny that I do have at least somewhat acceptable brains, and I'm afraid that just makes the whole matter worse, since I think, and I think a whole lot. When you think a whole lot, you can also think about yourself in a negative light a whole lot. That, and it's hellishly difficult to occupy me. I've considered drugs and alcohol before, but I wouldn't want to mess myself up beyond the point of return.

There's one lad in particular, who I appreciate very much, who has always encouraged me to do it, to ask. He's actually really helping me push through, and I can't appreciate it enough, but I wish my other friends were just as supportive. I've learned to ignore their teasing (as you wrote, it happened to you as well), hell, I actually make jokes about their poor taste (anorexic models) back.

But yeah. Maybe that's what sparked this raging bonfire to begin with. Like I said, I used to see her as below-average looking as well, but once I spotted her behavioral patterns, that all went away, and even those imperfections became positive.

Or maybe I'm sub-consciously lowering my standards, I don't know. Either way, it doesn't matter. I know what I have wanted for these past three months, I know that it's been eating away at me, punching my grade average hard, and I know what I need to do to get it off my chest once and for all, with the incomprehensibly low chance of something coming of it.

I honestly thank you. This was very helpful indeed. About your PM offer, I may just take you up on that later on.

see a counselor. at school, at least. or try to see a professional. everyone is a difficult case until they start learning more about themselves. if you can't get in to see a counselor, i highly suggest doing some deep, OBJECTIVE self reflection. here are some sample questions to ask yourself. i also really suggest starting a journal to track down your thoughts, try to find some patterns in them, and eventually be able to look back and see a clear line of progress in your thinking.
when did this self-deprecating thinking start? when did you start seeing yourself as "ugly" and nothing else? can you remember one specific moment where you first felt this way? describe that moment in detail -- what you were doing, what you saw, what you felt, what you were thinking, who was around, etc.
i think you should look in the mirror every day. sure, you might already do that to brush your teeth or hair or some shit. but i want you to look in the mirror, once every day, with the sole purpose of looking at yourself. that's what mirrors are for, right?
this isn't just some bullshit i'm spewing by the way lmao. this is actually something that helped me overcome my insecurities. and believe me when i tell you that i hated myself to the point that it interfered with my life a great deal. i honestly thought there was no coming out of it, so if this could help me, i think it can help you in some way as well. just look in the mirror and pick out one thing. at first, you will probably only notice the things you don't like about yourself. so notice them, insult yourself if you must. but immediately after you insult that thing, find something you maybe don't hate as much. dare i say, find something you like. find something that you can focus on that will balance out the thing you don't like.
i feel this is kind of hard to explain, so for example... i always hated my big, italian-ass nose. it's huge. like, mario would be jealous. every time i looked in the mirror, that was all i saw. fortunately, however, i was also blessed with some pretty awesome eyes. and the more i focused on how my eyes could kind of help take the spotlight off of my nose, the more i liked my face altogether.

you said when you think a lot, you can also think about yourself negatively a whole lot. i disagree. i don't think you're thinking enough. see, when you get to the point that you think of something negative, and then you fixate on that negative thinking... you're not thinking anymore. you're just obsessing. think further, think of how you can spin that negative thing around. at the very LEAST, try to take that negative statement ("I'm so ugly no girl will ever want me.") and turn it around to mean something positive ("I may be ugly, but there are many girls out there who value personality over physical appearance.") you don't even have to change the meaning of the original statement ("I am ugly") but you just have to add something positive to it. of course the goal is to eventually STOP thinking you're ugly, but it's okay to start small like this.
I know these exercises may seem stupid and like they'll never work. honestly looking back on it, I'm still amazed that they worked for me. but the more you take a good, objective look at yourself in the mirror; and the more you think past your negative thinking, and try to find the positive statement in it. you will eventually begin to naturally see yourself in a better light than just "ugly" all the time. and your thinking will slowly begin to automatically become more positive. instead of just thinking the negative, maybe you'll just start skipping that negative thought and just think positive instead. it can happen dude.

i say this with caution, but if you do want a completely honest answer as to whether you are ugly or not, i will give you that answer. i am one of the most blunt people i know, but i need to know that you are asking for that bluntness. believe it or not, i don't like hurting people's feelings, so i only offer up my complete honesty when it is truly wanted.
that being said, it's not my opinion or anyone elses' opinion of you that matters. it is YOUR opinion and your opinion alone that matters, and that's why you feel like shit right now. you can't change other people's opinions of you, but you can change yours. who knows? i could still be the ugliest sack of shit i once thought that i was, and maybe everyone sees me like that except for me. but at least i feel like i look good now.

also, this bullshit right here? "I need to force myself to talk to her and just get rejected and be done with it. I know it'll happen, I expect it to happen, and it's a certainty." yeah, that's what i'm talking about when i talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy. if you expect something to turn out a certain way, 9 times out of 10 it will happen the way you suspect. simply because of the subconscious vibe and attitude you give off when said something is happening. if you know you're going to fail a test, you will. because since you thought you would fail, you probably thought "what's the point in studying anyway?" and didn't try hard enough on the actual test.
i'm not saying be a happy-go-lucky dweeb, i'm just saying think realistically, not pessimistically. sometimes the realistic outcome isn't the negative outcome.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 12th 2017, 03:45 PM

That sounds like a fairly interesting method, I must admit. You're right. Placing only positive thoughts at first will not work. They just won't stick. It's important to acknowledge one's weaknesses, and only then can they begin realizing that they have certain strengths as well. I will take your advice into account, since you say it was effective before, and I will try to put it to good use.

So, to get started on seeing myself in a more positive light. I can be really outspoken and competent, especially in front of large crowds, and I'm not afraid of public embarrassment. I'm not half-bad at writing and engineering. I'm a decent typist, average around 100 WPM, and I believe I'm very loyal when it comes to friendship and companionship.

Now to negatives. Well, I'm ugly. That's the first. I'm not very strong, physically. I'm also not very hard working. I'm not organized, I work on spurs of inspiration and motivation. I'm cynical, self-deprecating and can be a bit unpleasant if I have a bad day, even towards people I care for. I can be attention-seeking when I become depressed, and overall, I'm prone to feeling bad about myself, others and the universe.

I mean, I don't feel so bad about myself. I think I'm a decent human being, not to sound arrogant. But I feel I'm not good enough for my female comrades. I need to be better, and I can always be better than I am. See, in everything but appearance (where I am truly atrocious), I fight with myself and myself only. I want to beat myself. I don't care much for the success of others (well, I do if I want to help them, but I don't really get jealous of anything other than romantic relationships).

Self-fulfilling prophecy. Aye, you got that much right. I agree. You know, I say it won't happen, but deep down, I really, really want it to work out. I even believe it could, but I can't quite convince myself that I'm decent enough for her. Or for any of them, at that. It's bullshit, I know, I have a few qualities that really do shine, but I don't know if I'm really built for non-platonic relationships. The positive part is, even just seeing her makes my day better. To set my sight upon such beauty has my heart filled with joy, albeit briefly. I swear, my heart goes beating like mad, from 60 BPM to 120 in a matter of seconds. Then I fall into a trance for the rest of the day, until I snap out of it and get depressed because I didn't talk to her. Horrible.

Please, judge me hard. I really want to be judged with utter honesty, and if possible, a rating from 1-10 as well. I mean it, I'm good at taking criticism. The link is clean, don't worry.

Edit: I am not comfortable leaving the link there for too long, so I got rid of it. I will repost it another time if necessary.

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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 18th 2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctus Lupus View Post
That sounds like a fairly interesting method, I must admit. You're right. Placing only positive thoughts at first will not work. They just won't stick. It's important to acknowledge one's weaknesses, and only then can they begin realizing that they have certain strengths as well. I will take your advice into account, since you say it was effective before, and I will try to put it to good use.

So, to get started on seeing myself in a more positive light. I can be really outspoken and competent, especially in front of large crowds, and I'm not afraid of public embarrassment. I'm not half-bad at writing and engineering. I'm a decent typist, average around 100 WPM, and I believe I'm very loyal when it comes to friendship and companionship.

Now to negatives. Well, I'm ugly. That's the first. I'm not very strong, physically. I'm also not very hard working. I'm not organized, I work on spurs of inspiration and motivation. I'm cynical, self-deprecating and can be a bit unpleasant if I have a bad day, even towards people I care for. I can be attention-seeking when I become depressed, and overall, I'm prone to feeling bad about myself, others and the universe.

I mean, I don't feel so bad about myself. I think I'm a decent human being, not to sound arrogant. But I feel I'm not good enough for my female comrades. I need to be better, and I can always be better than I am. See, in everything but appearance (where I am truly atrocious), I fight with myself and myself only. I want to beat myself. I don't care much for the success of others (well, I do if I want to help them, but I don't really get jealous of anything other than romantic relationships).

Self-fulfilling prophecy. Aye, you got that much right. I agree. You know, I say it won't happen, but deep down, I really, really want it to work out. I even believe it could, but I can't quite convince myself that I'm decent enough for her. Or for any of them, at that. It's bullshit, I know, I have a few qualities that really do shine, but I don't know if I'm really built for non-platonic relationships. The positive part is, even just seeing her makes my day better. To set my sight upon such beauty has my heart filled with joy, albeit briefly. I swear, my heart goes beating like mad, from 60 BPM to 120 in a matter of seconds. Then I fall into a trance for the rest of the day, until I snap out of it and get depressed because I didn't talk to her. Horrible.

Please, judge me hard. I really want to be judged with utter honesty, and if possible, a rating from 1-10 as well. I mean it, I'm good at taking criticism. The link is clean, don't worry.

Edit: I am not comfortable leaving the link there for too long, so I got rid of it. I will repost it another time if necessary.
The funny thing is that you can change almost all of those negatives. Not strong? Get into lifting. Not hard-working? Set goals for yourself, say you'll work hard only on this one specific thing for like 30 minutes, then take a 15 minute break. Motivate yourself. Reward yourself for hard work. Work on not hating yourself, change your attitude, explore a different mindset. It's all about perspective. You can let your flaws control you, or you can work to control them, fix them, and accept them.
The issue here is that you define yourself more so by your negatives than by your positives.
Saying you're a decent human being isn't arrogant in the slightest. Saying you're a fucking amazing human being wouldn't be arrogant either. Arrogance would be saying that you're the best human being, and that nobody else can possibly top how perfect you are. To think of yourself as decent is obviously an understatement, but you won't recognize that until you change.
It's great that the sight of her makes you feel better, but like you said, that happy feeling is only temporary until you crash again. Wouldn't it be great if you could have that feeling all the time? Even her friendship at this point would help with that. I hate how people make it seem like you have to be 100% in love with yourself to be able to start complete relationships and friendships with other people. I actually believe that sometimes we're meant to meet other people, because with every new person that comes into our life, we change just a little bit because of them. Maybe not an explicit, obvious change, but something is different. Maybe they give us a new perspective, or we learn something about ourselves. Maybe they show what kind of people we want in our life, or what kind we don't want in our life.
Humans are social creatures, we need other people to grow as a person. What I'm trying to get at here is that, even if you "accept" the fact that you're "ugly and will never get a girl" and move on with your life, you will never know for sure if that's true without the help of other people. Other people will accept you and other people will reject you. Depending on who those people are, it can tell you a lot about yourself and what kind of people react in what way to you.
Sorry, I never even saw the link. For some reason I never saw this thread updated in the New Posts.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 19th 2017, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Poison.ivy View Post


The funny thing is that you can change almost all of those negatives. Not strong? Get into lifting. Not hard-working? Set goals for yourself, say you'll work hard only on this one specific thing for like 30 minutes, then take a 15 minute break. Motivate yourself. Reward yourself for hard work. Work on not hating yourself, change your attitude, explore a different mindset. It's all about perspective. You can let your flaws control you, or you can work to control them, fix them, and accept them.
The issue here is that you define yourself more so by your negatives than by your positives.
Saying you're a decent human being isn't arrogant in the slightest. Saying you're a fucking amazing human being wouldn't be arrogant either. Arrogance would be saying that you're the best human being, and that nobody else can possibly top how perfect you are. To think of yourself as decent is obviously an understatement, but you won't recognize that until you change.
It's great that the sight of her makes you feel better, but like you said, that happy feeling is only temporary until you crash again. Wouldn't it be great if you could have that feeling all the time? Even her friendship at this point would help with that. I hate how people make it seem like you have to be 100% in love with yourself to be able to start complete relationships and friendships with other people. I actually believe that sometimes we're meant to meet other people, because with every new person that comes into our life, we change just a little bit because of them. Maybe not an explicit, obvious change, but something is different. Maybe they give us a new perspective, or we learn something about ourselves. Maybe they show what kind of people we want in our life, or what kind we don't want in our life.
Humans are social creatures, we need other people to grow as a person. What I'm trying to get at here is that, even if you "accept" the fact that you're "ugly and will never get a girl" and move on with your life, you will never know for sure if that's true without the help of other people. Other people will accept you and other people will reject you. Depending on who those people are, it can tell you a lot about yourself and what kind of people react in what way to you.
Sorry, I never even saw the link. For some reason I never saw this thread updated in the New Posts.
Right, I only call myself "decent" because I realize there's much more I can improve about myself, and I'd hate to give myself too much comfort. I'm afraid calling myself amazing would make me stop trying to improve. Problem is, I've been so harsh to myself since early childhood (I used to request that my family puts me on a shuttle and launches me to the Moon, at the age of like 6 or something... I was an odd child) that it's hard to give myself praise. I have actually done all of this to myself, even though no one ever criticized me harshly.

Like I said, I have some very good traits, I'd say. I've got some brains, and even though I can sometimes slip (I screwed up 3 maths tests in a row last week), I still think there's plenty of potential in it. I can be truly outspoken, very good at talking in front of crowds. Hell, I really enjoy going out and talking in front of people, provided I have something to say. I love improvising on stage. Shame I don't get to do that all too often.

Anyway, I have improved so much in this last year. I used to be so shy and reclusive, and now I'm absolutely not afraid to sing Katyusha out loud, walking through a densely populated street, despite not being able to sing at all, walking upright and confident. But when it comes to this person, or most women my age... God, I lock up. I either become very evasive, or I start messing with my hair obsessively. I just can't be myself around them. I don't get how my classmates (most of them) do it. Well, usually through facebook or something, but I'm more of an old style approach type. I think it should be done face-to-face, not through a screen like everything else these days. Too bad it's so hard for me.

I need to do it. Exactly, if I could have this feeling every day, even as I closed my eyes, knowing someone cared, life would become much nicer. But I'm scared of the huge likelihood of "no." That would shatter me. Now, I live with the possibility that she COULD say yes, but if she said no, there would be no possibility to brighten my day for even that one moment. You know, I'd almost rather just have her as a friend, but I don't know how to do that. It's equally difficult. I'll be called creepy or something, at best. But yeah, definitely. If I could have her friendship, I'd be more than happy. If it'd become more, even better. But I don't think I'll get either. Two weeks left to do it, and I'm still a coward.

There was a study where they found that women find 80% of men below-average. I mean, what chances do I have then? The odds are literally nonsensical, and the expectations put on me are even more questionable. If average is the top 20%, what the hell is there left for me?

Here's the link. I deleted it because I thought this was abandoned, and didn't want anyone to come across it and potentially abuse it. You'll be scared by what you see. The sheer disgust that boils in my stomach when I accidentally spot myself in a mirror is inconceivable. Definitely .44 bullet worthy. What a fucking pretty face. Please, please be honest. I don't care if it's really bad, I know it is, but I just need an utterly honest opinion, for the first time, a real, honest opinion, so that I know for sure about myself. There's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well know my place in the hierarchy of courtship.

i.imgur.com/5AKfiZI.jpg

Prepare to see the face of horror. The face of cynicism and bitterness, and cringiness in general. The link should work. I can't post it as a URL, so you'll have to paste it into the address bar and pray for the best.

Edit: Scratch all that. I do look horrible. No compassion for myself, never. I look terrible and I deserve to die for it. You know, we betas do indeed deserve to be killed. They should line us up and shoot us, so that only good-looking people can breed, so that no more ugly people are born to feel this fucking pain. It's natural. Betas like me don't deserve life, none of us do. Everyone says it. They all say how we're inferior, especially other men, and they're right. They all say that we exist to serve good-looking people, and I say fuck that. I'd sooner kill myself than serve anyone. Life isn't worth living when you're like me. If I were to do it right now, you can bet I wouldn't be missed by anyone at all. "Friends" avoid me for fear of embarrassment. I'm beginning to hate them with a passion. I need support from them and I just don't get any. They don't even listen when I speak. No one does.

If I got shot and killed saving someone's life, I'd probably be happy. At least I would die a good man, knowing I helped save another soul.

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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 23rd 2017, 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanctus Lupus View Post
Right, I only call myself "decent" because I realize there's much more I can improve about myself, and I'd hate to give myself too much comfort. I'm afraid calling myself amazing would make me stop trying to improve. Problem is, I've been so harsh to myself since early childhood (I used to request that my family puts me on a shuttle and launches me to the Moon, at the age of like 6 or something... I was an odd child) that it's hard to give myself praise. I have actually done all of this to myself, even though no one ever criticized me harshly.

Like I said, I have some very good traits, I'd say. I've got some brains, and even though I can sometimes slip (I screwed up 3 maths tests in a row last week), I still think there's plenty of potential in it. I can be truly outspoken, very good at talking in front of crowds. Hell, I really enjoy going out and talking in front of people, provided I have something to say. I love improvising on stage. Shame I don't get to do that all too often.

Anyway, I have improved so much in this last year. I used to be so shy and reclusive, and now I'm absolutely not afraid to sing Katyusha out loud, walking through a densely populated street, despite not being able to sing at all, walking upright and confident. But when it comes to this person, or most women my age... God, I lock up. I either become very evasive, or I start messing with my hair obsessively. I just can't be myself around them. I don't get how my classmates (most of them) do it. Well, usually through facebook or something, but I'm more of an old style approach type. I think it should be done face-to-face, not through a screen like everything else these days. Too bad it's so hard for me.

I need to do it. Exactly, if I could have this feeling every day, even as I closed my eyes, knowing someone cared, life would become much nicer. But I'm scared of the huge likelihood of "no." That would shatter me. Now, I live with the possibility that she COULD say yes, but if she said no, there would be no possibility to brighten my day for even that one moment. You know, I'd almost rather just have her as a friend, but I don't know how to do that. It's equally difficult. I'll be called creepy or something, at best. But yeah, definitely. If I could have her friendship, I'd be more than happy. If it'd become more, even better. But I don't think I'll get either. Two weeks left to do it, and I'm still a coward.

There was a study where they found that women find 80% of men below-average. I mean, what chances do I have then? The odds are literally nonsensical, and the expectations put on me are even more questionable. If average is the top 20%, what the hell is there left for me?

Here's the link. I deleted it because I thought this was abandoned, and didn't want anyone to come across it and potentially abuse it. You'll be scared by what you see. The sheer disgust that boils in my stomach when I accidentally spot myself in a mirror is inconceivable. Definitely .44 bullet worthy. What a fucking pretty face. Please, please be honest. I don't care if it's really bad, I know it is, but I just need an utterly honest opinion, for the first time, a real, honest opinion, so that I know for sure about myself. There's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well know my place in the hierarchy of courtship.

Prepare to see the face of horror. The face of cynicism and bitterness, and cringiness in general. The link should work. I can't post it as a URL, so you'll have to paste it into the address bar and pray for the best.
-_____-
even though i don't think it's physically possible to make a text-emoji face in real life, that was the exact face i made when i opened the pic.
-__-

you're not ugly dude. like. tf.
i swear to god, allah, buddha, all them people that this is the most genuine and honest thing i can say to you...
you're fine.
and i understand exactly where you're coming from to be honest. like i stated in other replies, i struggled a lot with my self-image too, and now i wake up and think my gross, groggy morning face is cute too.
i actually have a friend who looks a lot like you. so similar that i would've asked if he had an account on here, except he has short hair and you have longer hair. oddly enough, he also struggled with his self-image a couple years ago. now he's older, has matured a lot more, his jawline became a lot more prominent, he grew a few inches, and got a new haircut. over the two years i've known him (online), i've only ever seen two pictures of him... one back when his self-esteem was low, and i practically harassed him to get a picture. and another now that his self-esteem has improved.

it's funny because, to him, the main difference is his appearance. but i don't see that much of a difference in him. to me, the biggest, most obvious difference is his posture and expression in the photos. in the first, his shoulders were drooped and he looked like he wanted to die just because he was taking a picture of himself. kind of the same expression you have in your picture.
in the second picture, his chest is out, his chin is up, and he's cracking the smallest of smiles. he looks almost proud to be himself.
that's what i want you to become, eventually. happy in your own skin. and nobody else can make that happen but you.


above all, you really need to work on yourself. maybe you won't reach out to this girl in the time you have left to see her, and that's okay. there will always be other girls. but you're stuck with yourself for the rest of your life, and i sincerely hope that it's a long one.
it's the mindset of "okay, this is me, these are the cards i got dealt in life, might as well make the best of them" that made me decide to start improving on myself and my appearance. the face and body structure we're born with is something we can't control. but we can control how we perceive it and what we do with it.

to sum it all up...
you don't look horrible, not in the slightest.
confidence will make you 1000x more attractive.
you don't exist to serve "good-looking" people, you exist to serve yourself and the ones you love.
you need new friends.

i think a support group might benefit you a lot. even one-on-one counseling is something you should really look into. i wouldn't have made the progress i made as quickly as i did if it wasn't for my counselor.


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Re: Any point trying when you're ugly? - June 24th 2017, 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison.ivy View Post


-_____-
even though i don't think it's physically possible to make a text-emoji face in real life, that was the exact face i made when i opened the pic.
-__-

you're not ugly dude. like. tf.
i swear to god, allah, buddha, all them people that this is the most genuine and honest thing i can say to you...
you're fine.
and i understand exactly where you're coming from to be honest. like i stated in other replies, i struggled a lot with my self-image too, and now i wake up and think my gross, groggy morning face is cute too.
i actually have a friend who looks a lot like you. so similar that i would've asked if he had an account on here, except he has short hair and you have longer hair. oddly enough, he also struggled with his self-image a couple years ago. now he's older, has matured a lot more, his jawline became a lot more prominent, he grew a few inches, and got a new haircut. over the two years i've known him (online), i've only ever seen two pictures of him... one back when his self-esteem was low, and i practically harassed him to get a picture. and another now that his self-esteem has improved.

it's funny because, to him, the main difference is his appearance. but i don't see that much of a difference in him. to me, the biggest, most obvious difference is his posture and expression in the photos. in the first, his shoulders were drooped and he looked like he wanted to die just because he was taking a picture of himself. kind of the same expression you have in your picture.
in the second picture, his chest is out, his chin is up, and he's cracking the smallest of smiles. he looks almost proud to be himself.
that's what i want you to become, eventually. happy in your own skin. and nobody else can make that happen but you.


above all, you really need to work on yourself. maybe you won't reach out to this girl in the time you have left to see her, and that's okay. there will always be other girls. but you're stuck with yourself for the rest of your life, and i sincerely hope that it's a long one.
it's the mindset of "okay, this is me, these are the cards i got dealt in life, might as well make the best of them" that made me decide to start improving on myself and my appearance. the face and body structure we're born with is something we can't control. but we can control how we perceive it and what we do with it.

to sum it all up...
you don't look horrible, not in the slightest.
confidence will make you 1000x more attractive.
you don't exist to serve "good-looking" people, you exist to serve yourself and the ones you love.
you need new friends.

i think a support group might benefit you a lot. even one-on-one counseling is something you should really look into. i wouldn't have made the progress i made as quickly as i did if it wasn't for my counselor.
You think? I'm still not sure about that. I've asked plenty of people and they say I look fine, but I just don't know if I can believe it. I'm afraid I have some odd form of paranoia, where I can always rationalize the belief that I'll be alone for my whole life, even though logic probably dictates otherwise.

You wouldn't believe it, but before I saw this person and before I realized that my chances of attracting anyone ever are probably quite slim, I was very content with myself. I walked straight, assumed dominant poses (hands-behind-back and stuff), shoulders back, a slight smile when walking about. I still do most of this most of the time, but it's harder to maintain now that my confidence took such a huge blow.

As for counseling... No more doctors. Never. I've had my fair share of that stuff and it never worked. Hell, I'm paying them to say good things to me. How is it valid when they're paid? It's like hiring an escort and expecting love or something. I don't trust them.

I had such a perfect opportunity yesterday, and I broke down. Right there, in the room, my knees just gave out and I could hardly think straight, so I missed another great opportunity. Later that day, I became so insanely suicidal that I'm surprised I'm even here to write this. I was totally prepared to end myself. Luckily, I don't feel that self-termination is a good idea anymore.

I know, there probably will be others. I just wish they sat next to me on the bus from time to time, or gave me signs that I am at least somewhat attractive. Then again, when I am attracted to one, I usually avoid looking at them or staying close, so what do I know?
   
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