View Single Post
  (#23 (permalink)) Old
Jer Offline
Not a n00b
Jer's Avatar
Name: Jered
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: A small town, a thousand years ago

Posts: 74
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Debate corner: Does God exist? - January 13th 2009, 03:40 PM

Because life is not infinite, life must originate somewhere: fact.
Scientific theory contends that the universe began to expand from an extremely dense and hot state about 15 billion years ago and continues to expand today. "What exisisted [sic] prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation."source

As I very much hope you already know, creationism is not the only idea that answers where we come from.
Then offer your counter argument, don't simply give me questions to answer. It is your duty to provide a counter-argument that is suitable, not simply possible
See above.

1. God is the greatest being which can be imagined.
2. If God does not exist, then He is not the greatest being which can be imagined.
3. Since God is the greatest being which can be imagined, and His non-existence would mean He is not the greatest being which can be imagined, it must be concluded that God exists outside of the imagination.
4. Thus, God exists.
You still have neglected to address my previous point that the assumption with this argument is that the greatest power imaginable also exists. I can imagine an infinitely large fish, yet it cannot possibly exist because if it existed, we would not, as this fish would take up all of space. Please do not reply with "God is immaterial" because the fish is an example of a lack of link between imagination and existence.

Also, think of this:
1. Existence is a property.
2. As you said, God is the greatest being imaginable.
3. Anything greater than God therefore cannot exist.
4. Imagine another separate being altogether- let's call him Larry- with all the properties of God, who does not exist.
5. By 3 it follows that Larry is greater than God.
6. But 5 contradicts 2, since we could imagine that Larry is greater than God.
According to this, 1, 2, 3 or 4 is false. Either existence is not a property, God is not the greatest being imaginable, something greater than God can exist (making him lesser than something), or Larry can exist.

Dandelions don't understand reproduction.
Things which cannot think cannot act on purpose
Then the question becomes, how can we be sure of a dandelion's nonsentience?

1. The yummy food is green.
2. Popcorn is not green.
3. Therefore, popcorn is not yummy.
The difference between my argument and yours is that yummy food is not required to be green. Chocolate is not green, and is also yummy; therefore, not all yummy food is chocolate. However, the greatest power I can imagine is a power that can do ANYTHING, which is impossible. This is my second argument against "God is the greatest power imaginable." As I outlined before, whether or not the greatest power imaginable can be imagined is independent of whether the greatest power imaginable actually exists. This transforms God's status into "the most powerful being in existence," which means something can theoretically become greater than God and as such, he is not the ultimate power in the universe.

Further picking apart this:
Your argument below is seriously flawed, as it is based off of arguments which are unable to be verified by any information you have provided.
1. The greatest power imaginable is omnipotent. <-- As I have demonstrated, existence is independent of the ability to be imagined. Since I can imagine a being that can do anything, it follows that omnipotence is synonymous with the greatest power imaginable.
2. God is not omnipotent. <-- Already stated by you.
2. Therefore, God is not the greatest power imaginable. <-- Here's the deductive reasoning you ask for.