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Re: what is so wrong about gay marriage??? - June 10th 2009, 03:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealMeUnleashed View Post
no offense. but do you honestly think god will let you on to heaven on earth if you only follow some of what he has said. its like reading a series of books. if you only read the 2nd and 4th then you will be pretty lost. right? same goes for the bible. and it only makes sense to follow it all.
god did not make gay marriage a commandment because he hates gay people. he made it because he made us not for that purpose. if he's our father it only makes sense to uphold his ruling.
Yeah, if you read the entire Bible, parrticularly the New Testament, you'd get that Jesus was all about the forgiveness. Oh, and as Paul pointed out, Chhristians aren't under the laws of the Old Testament. No one can follow them perfectly, and thats the point. You need to take in the whole message of the Bible, not just rule upon rule. Forgetting the gay stuff for a minute, you seem to be missing a lot of the message.

Going back to the gay stuff, you say God hates gay people? Why? Assuming gay is a sin for a minute (though I'll talk about that after), I assume you are suggesting God hates gay people because they are sinners? So God doesn't love the world (sinners)? So John 3:16 is wrong? He didn't send his son to save sinners out of love? Jesus came to condemn the world? Sin actually is something everyone has, so God must hate everyone? Jesus didnt hang out or talk to the tax collectors, the prostitutes, and the socially considered 'sinners'? You aren't a sinner that God hates? Have you read the first 2 chapters in Romans? Is there nothing on that list applicable to you? You've ALWAYS obeyed your parents? According to the Bible, all have sinned, which includes you. You are a sinner, and have (and will again) fallen short of the glory of God.

For the record, a homosexual person is a fairly modern concept, from the last few hundred years. People in Bible times did not have sexua identities such as gay or straight. The Bible holds no mention of an orientation, if it does, its a bad translation of those verses. The Bible at the very most makes 5 comments on some form of male same-sex behaviour. Going through these briefly, 2 are found in Leviticus. Paul dispels the law for Christians, so at max these are influencial verses, not binding rules. Along with this, they are likely to be specfic to anal intercourse, due to the idea of lying with a man, like with a woman (implies intercourse). There is evidence its contextual, and purpose linked to cleaniness, which would make sense in such a time. Its also linked to the Jewish people trying to dustinguish themselves from the surrounding nations. The word that we have in english, abomination, is from a word that suggests something that was made wrong, but not inheritantly evil. This rule was only for the Jews. It also doesn't cover lesbianism. The Sages later went on to make man made laws against lesbianism, without the death penalty, because God never covered it in the actual law.

Next verse is in Romans 1. Its highly likely it is a reference to some form of orgy/idoltry practice, which was common in those times. Again, it only explicitly mention male same sex behaviour, and is likely to only be anal intercourse. The reference of women going against nature was read by the early church as women using strap ons to penetrate men. A man being penetrated lowered his status in society, its clear way in this ociety why you shouldnt do that whilst loving your neighbour. And if you keep reading into Romans 2, it starts off with 'Therefore'. These two books were basically tell the Jews to stop being so self righteous over the gentiles.

Then 1 Corithians, and in some Bibles, a vice list I think in Timothy? (I'm focusing on the Corinthians one though). Paul makes a vice list, which contextually appears to be able exploitation. One word he used is often translated as something like 'homosexual offenders'. The word he used was a combination word, which I think literally translates to 'male' and 'beds'. In historical context, and the theme of exploitation, one plausable explanation is this discusses camites. Boys older men had sex with. This is something most would disagree with. Paul didnt use common terms of the day that existed for adults who had sex with adults of the same sex. Also back to the penetration degrading the bottom man, would again have some explanation if it was a reference to adults.

None of this really comments on gay marriage, I just felt like pointing out, its not as clear cut as your preacher may make it sound. And at the end of the day, its between the gay and God, to decide how to take this information. And essentially, Biblically you can at the most only condemn sexually active gays, even if you are very conservative. You cant spin the Bible to condemn celibate gays (unless you mention lust, but that isn't a unique issue to gays, it was actually mentionned explicitly with straights. So back to this idea 'God hate gays', I see no groundings for your statement.

As a strong Christian, coming to the realisation I liked girls (regardless of my gender on TH, I'm technically a girl who likes girls) was one of the most horrific times of my life. I spent a year in prayer, reading the Bible (not just the gay verses), and wishing it wasn't happening to me, before I found any amount of peace. The point of this paragraph is more in reference to your comments elsewhere, where you claim I chose this. I can tell you, whatever other people have done. I didn't choose this. I wouldnt have, even if I wasn't religious at the time. Why? Social discrimination, homophobic abuse (including actual violence), the knowledge my Baptist conservative Pastor of a father would disown me, unequal rights, and on a more superficial note, getting a bf would just be so much easier I'm useless with girls, but great with boys.

Whether or not God made me gay is another issue. But it most certainly wasn't a choice.

Last edited by DeletedAccount84; June 10th 2009 at 03:46 AM.