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Originally Posted by Xujhan
Someone couldn't keep their opinions to themselves so they voted for a law that will negatively affect the lives of others, and I'm calling on them to take responsibility for that. The responsibility argument works both ways. Illegal abortion will cause both unnecessary deaths and unwanted children. That is a direct consequence of your (addressed generally to pro-lifers) intentional action. What are you going to do to take responsibility for that?
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Actually, I don't think abortion should be illegal. It's going to happen regardless of what I say. And better it be done safely than in the underground. I was just stating my personal opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite
Honestly, when people say 'I think abortion should be illegal except when you are raped' it makes me want to throw things. It has to be the most ridiculous opinion on the topic, period.
If you think abortion is murder, then why would you be okay with 'murdering' a baby because of how it was concieved?
So you either think
1) Rape babies don't deserve to live.
2) Children should be a consequence.
Children should NOT, repeat NOT just be their to remind someone they are paying for having sex. I can't believe people actually think 'Well, you made your bed, lie in it' when it comes to this issue. A child is not a learning curb. It blows my mind that people think abortion should be illegal as children are a punishment for sex.
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Well again: not illegal, just "unjust". But I oppose
not from the "You're killing a baby!" standpoint. That's why I think the rape fetuses are an obvious exception. Having to endure 9 months of a reminder that you were abused, that'd the problem. But if you consensually had sex, it's always a possibility and selfishly aborting a potential human when others would give up a limb to be so lucky, but cannot.
Additionally, I've known some people who originally did not want their children (were considering abortion and/or adoption but once they were actually born, they decided to keep the child and they became the best thing that ever happened to them. Not saying this solution is for everyone. But unwanted pregnancies can have happy endings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan
In addition to that, why do you look at it as a cop-out? In almost nothing else in society would you call a solution to a problem a "cop-out". "House caught on fire? Well, I guess you shouldn't have had a wooden house. Don't call fire control, that's just a cop out. You bought a wooden house; take responsibility for your actions." "Cut yourself making dinner? Don't go to the hospital; that's just a cop-out. If you're stupid enough to use metal knives for cooking then you can live with the consequences." "Fell off your horse? Too damn bad; you shouldn't have been riding a horse to begin with. Don't go to a doctor; take responsibility for your actions."
See how ridiculous it sounds? Unless you have a moral objection to abortion, there is no reason to call it a "cop-out" or "irresponsible". It's a solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancy. The idea that sex is all about making babies is and has been archaic for a long time, and the vague idea that abortion is "irresponsible" I think is just a remnant of that mindset. On the other hand if you do have a moral objection to abortion, make that your argument; at least then we'll have something to debate.
So, which'll it be?
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Wooden houses were not first and foremost made for burning. It can be an unexpected side-effect but pregnancy is not a side-effect, that's what it exists for: the continuation of mankind.
Those analogies are not really working for me. Because you're doing the responsible thing by tending to your mistake. Not "getting rid of" your mistake.
And sex isn't ALL about making babies. But it's what it was designed for. Sure it's can be good expression of love and it feels great. That only reinforces the sub-conscious desire to continue the human race and, in particular, for men to spread their seed.
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Originally Posted by Jack
Well, the idea that an abortion is "the easy way out" seems to come from not really having talked to anyone who's had, or thought about, having an abortion before. It's an incredibly difficult decision for some people and they have to live with the stigma (and possibly guilt) for the rest of their lives. By saying, "well sorry honey, you've had sex so now deal with the consequences" (even though abortion is dealing the the consequences) you're dooming tens of thousands of women per year to permanent and serious injury or death simply based on nothing but your personal morals.
If you do not allow abortion you make very little difference to the rate at which it occurrs, you simply drive it underground. Legality makes very little difference to the rate of abortion and if it's going to happen anyway isn't it better that it take place in clean and proffesional situations? Prohibition has not worked in the case of drugs or alcohol and it is clear that it would not work for abortion either.
This issue is not simply one of morals it is also one of practicality and realism.
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I do know people who've had abortions. I've agreed with some decisions and disagreed with others. I know they'll have to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives, but I feel like aborting the fetus will actually cause more guilt. If you're able to give the fetus life and give that to someone who is unable to have children, some good can come of that.
And as I said up in the reply to Fletcher, I don't think abortion should be illegal.
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Sorry if those were messy responses. This reply was a little all over the place and I was interrupted in the middle so I may have lost my train of thought. And now I have to leave soon...
But I realize that in actuality there are children who go to foster care and are stuck in the system and that's no good. However, I guess I'm addressing my problem with this actuality. In my (more) ideal society, the number of unwanted pregnancies would be reduced and people would make smarter decisions before "mistakes" occur. Everyone who doesn't want a child would be responsible enough to take the necessary precautions to prevent it (contraception, and they'd learn how to use these methods the correct way, as to minimize the rate of failure). But many (not all) unwanted pregnancies (of the consensual sex variety) come from ill advised methods of contraception (pull out), not knowing how to effectively use proper methods, or just the lack of contraception all together. I understand people get hormonal, but that doesn't give anyone the exude to not think about the consequences.