[forfrosne]

Originally Posted by LostAngels

The point I'm making is simple. There has been absolutely zero scientific evidence, (in the history of ever), pointing towards the existence of god. Considering people are not only allowed to have their own opinions in regards to religion, but also, have justifiable reasoning BEHIND doubting the idea of possessing a faith, naturally, less and less people are going to follow a religion.

Scientific evidence is only one type of evidence. I think I posted about him in another thread, but Plato, one of the greatest philosophers in history, believed that there were two forms of knowing. I think it's best to explain with an example. Please bear in mind it's 2AM here and I've been on 5 hours sleep so I could not only be totally wrong but I could be going off on one honestly haha.Say there is a woman, and I ask "Is she beautiful?". He believed that evidence obtained through our senses was unreliable as they are clouded by both the limits of our senses, our understanding of the universe, and also of our opinions and general subjectivity. No true answer can be obtained, just useless subjective answers like "In my opinion, yes" or "In my opinion, no", because so often opinion passes as knowledge, like "I think she's beautiful" "No, i think she's ugly!" But, if we understand what beauty is... well, then we can talk, because if we understand what beauty is then we can decide what fits it and what doesn't. He argued that things can only have objective answers if they are discussed as abstract concepts, because we can only have opinions on things our senses perceive and never truly know.

But where am I going with this? That, essentially, it may not be the case the scientific evidence is the only true type of evidence. Plato believed that the only true knowledge was that which we already know; he believed that we remember and do not learn. Therefore, while it's possible to ask "There is no scientific evidence to show he exists, so why do you believe he exists?", Socrates would throw a fit at that question, because you aren't asking the right question; perhaps a better question would be "What arguments can be made for and against the existence of a supreme being?" because that would open the question to the possibility that evidence our senses perceive may not be enough; the lack of scientific evidence for him would only be one of the arguments and nowhere near conclusive. It may be that Plato is correct. There are many other ideas and philosophies that are similar to him, so it's important to understand that when we discuss the idea of God that we cannot just approach it in terms of scientific evidence, we must approach it from a philosophical standpoint and discuss the abstract concept of God as well, rather just zoning in on like the Christian God.

But, in conclusion, that is why I agree with you in some points; because for most people scientific evidence (or lack thereof I suppose) is far easier for Average Joe to comprehend or at least appreciate. Not so many are either capable or willing to understand the philosophical side of the argument, and with the increasing prevalence of science (and I'd argue the increasing arrogance of antitheists), they turn to evidence they can understand; simple numbers and statistics; much easier to digest than Plato's Theory of Forms!

It's very easy to use the argument of "No scientific evidence" but it doesn't really prove anything, because there are also many arguments for the existence of god, like the First Cause Argument. Better to discuss than to dismiss, that's what I'm getting at I guess.

Public disclaimer: a) I'm atheist. b) It's almost 2AM here and I got 5 hours sleep last night, so it's very possible that not only does my post not make sense and has awful grammar, but it's also possible my tiredness is causing confusion in my understanding of Plato and has led me to embarrass myself; if that's the case let me know!



So yeah, what I just said could make no sense. I'm going to review this tomorrow and if I realise I've made no sense I'll prepare a proper response haha