Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
Rape is far from simple when it comes to the justice system. I'm glad that it's not simple because I really don't want to live in a country that has a justice system that basically allows a woman to pull out the rape card when, in fact, it wasn't. If I have consensual sex with a woman and, for some reason has a desire to take me to court and accuse me of rape, then I don't have much to go by.
|
Such instances of false accusations of rape are generally quite rare (estimated at 2% of reported rapes), and those that do reach trial stage are often discovered under cross-examination. The fear of being falsely convicted of rape is generally greater than the likelihood of it actually happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
If I were single and I went to a party, met a woman, decide to go back to her place, and she passes out on the bed...do I have consent even if she never mentions consent? I'd probably be intoxicated and probably wouldn't care too much if she was passed out. In fact, it's actually one of my fetishes to engage in sexual activity with my girlfriend while she's asleep (but I've never done it because she's a light sleeper). And since we went back to her place, I'd automatically assume that her intent was to have sex with me, and would therefore not hold myself back.
|
I put those bits in bold because I think this is where the crux of the problem is - you are assuming consent where none has been given, and indeed displaying a degree of apathy as to whether it has been given at all. US law, like English law and a number of other European jurisdiction, holds that if a person is asleep or otherwise incapacitated, they are incapable of giving consent. No ifs, buts or maybes. At best, your theoretical conduct would be utterly reckless insofar as consent is concerned, and that in itself can be evidence that consent was
not given.
Ergo, rape. It's not as if it takes much to wake someone up and ask them - or indeed, to leave them be if they're unconscious and keep your fly zipped (if you'll pardon the bluntness). I have been intoxicated in the past - very intoxicated on some occasions - but it has never put my brain into autopilot. Choosing to pursue sexual intercourse is precisely that - a choice. Hence why the law holds people to account over it when their choices violate the bodily integrity of another person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
But what if I was sober? Would it make any difference if I had sex with her or not? I say it doesn't make much of a difference. If I had a female friend come over and she, for some reason, decides to sleep with me since there isn't any other beds and decides to take her clothes off, is it rape if I touch her while she's asleep?
|
Rape requires penetration in most jurisdictions, usually with the penis (although some differ on this point), so no. It would most likely be classed as a form of sexual/indecent assault though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon
If she was a nudist, I would understand why she would sleep naked...but if this she never takes her clothes off when sleeping but does so with me, then I feel that you're inviting me.
|
Problem is, you're saying you
feel this is an invitation without providing any rational explanation as to
why it should be viewed as an invitation. Nothing you have stated above, as far as I can see, would substantiate such a claim - no pre-existing sexual relationship, no engaging in foreplay or other intimacy, no expressed desire for sex - not even a kiss. The circumstances could just as easily be explained by higher ambient temperatures and a lack of suitable attire. Incidentally, you also haven't explained how you would ascertain your friend's nocturnal clothing habits. There is merely a series of assumptions - assumptions which, incidentally, are all in your favour rather than favouring caution - of which none provide any grounds for a rational assumption of consent for sex. It's no more convincing than if you were to go onto an Internet retailer, put an item in your basket, fall asleep at your keyboard and the retailer just decides to complete the transaction anyway using card details you'd used on a previous transaction. That would be unlawful, and the same rationale applies here.