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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 10th 2009, 10:50 PM
This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.
A person has to have consciousness and the ability to live independently of a sole human being.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 11th 2009, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
A person has to have consciousness and the ability to live independently of a sole human being.
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Exactly, and an unborn child does not have concious thought. That doesn't mean, however, that abortion is right.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 11th 2009, 03:15 PM
There are a lot of things that wouldn't be considered right that are legal. Right is a matter of perspective.
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Jo Jo
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 11th 2009, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
There are a lot of things that wouldn't be considered right that are legal. Right is a matter of perspective.
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Good point. Society today has so many abstract pieces to it that it gets confusing. It's not black and white anymore. There are so many gray areas as to what is acceptable and what is not.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 11th 2009, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoJoWildHorse
Good point. Society today has so many abstract pieces to it that it gets confusing. It's not black and white anymore. There are so many gray areas as to what is acceptable and what is not.
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Has it ever been black and white? Society has always been confusing with gray areas.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 11th 2009, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoesThisLookInfected?
Has it ever been black and white? Society has always been confusing with gray areas.
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Not necissarily. It's had less gray area, but it's never been completely black & white as everyone has a different view on everything.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 14th 2009, 03:20 AM
Quote:
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3. I find what you said about the doctor who was shot scary. You obviously don't know much about abortion because late-term abortions are only allowed when the mother's health is at risk or the child has been determined to have a serious health problem that it probably won't survive. So he was actually saving lives unfortunately at the expense of some but a woman is allowed to have that choice.
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No, he was doing it for anybody and everybody.
Not because the mother's health was at risk, or the child having serious health problems.
He was just doing it for the money, he didn't care that he just murdered a little baby.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 14th 2009, 03:26 AM
Actually, no he wasn't.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 14th 2009, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
Actually, no he wasn't.
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Yeah, he was doing late term abortions for women whose babies were severely mentally or physically fucked.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 14th 2009, 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
A person has to have consciousness
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Unborn babies DO have consciousness after 15 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
and the ability to live independently of a sole human being.
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And by that logic, it would make sense to be allowed to lawfully kill babies until after the umbilical cord is cut, as all of the baby's oxygen, nutrients, etc are still coming solely from the mother until then.
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Almost 4000 posts.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 15th 2009, 01:56 AM
How do you figure that an infant is conscious?
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Mizu-Kun (Saito)'s Spouse
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 15th 2009, 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adean
How do you figure that an infant is conscious?
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Brain activity. At 16 weeks, a fetus can not only hear, but RECOGNIZE the sound of its mother's voice and pick out the voices of different people who are regularly around. Its nervous system is already active (meaning it can feel pain) and it has sensory perception enough to see light.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 15th 2009, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixAlive
Brain activity. At 16 weeks, a fetus can not only hear, but RECOGNIZE the sound of its mother's voice and pick out the voices of different people who are regularly around. Its nervous system is already active (meaning it can feel pain) and it has sensory perception enough to see light.
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Source? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just curious.
Either way, then why is an abortion before 16 weeks not okay?
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 15th 2009, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidig
Source? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just curious.
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Oh, sorry. Its in one of my previous posts on this thread. I'll grab it.
Week 16 - Month 4 Fetal development information baby Facial expressions is developing growing inside you over weeks months trimesters
Week 10 Embryo is now a Fetus - Month 3 Fetal development information your baby is inside you over weeks months trimesters
Week 20 - Month 5 The halfway point Fetal development information How your baby is over weeks months trimesters
Fetus Heart Races When Mom Reads Poetry; New Findings Reveal Fetuses Recognize Mother's Voice In-utero - Biology Online
[quote=Gidig;165932
Either way, then why is an abortion before 16 weeks not okay?[/quote]
As I've expressed before, I don't have a problem with abortions performed very early on in the pregnancy. At 10 weeks of pregnancy, when an unborn baby is no longer considered an embryo, but a fetus, that is where I start to have issues.
But that's sort of irrelevent. My post was intended to contest Adean's notion of consciousness and when a human becomes a human being. I believe that happens at about 16 weeks gestation.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 16th 2009, 02:24 PM
Quite a few studies have expressed doubt that the baby is actively conscious until right before birth however, it's not really proven either way. You can respond to your mothers voice but do so in an unconscious state, in a similar manner as responding to stimuli in your sleep.
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 16th 2009, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Quite a few studies have expressed doubt that the baby is actively conscious until right before birth however, it's not really proven either way. You can respond to your mothers voice but do so in an unconscious state, in a similar manner as responding to stimuli in your sleep.
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Right, but if fetuses have a subconscious already in place, and they are responding to stimuli subconsciously, then doesn't that show the extent of their mental capacity?
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Re: Abortion is wrong. -
June 20th 2009, 05:58 AM
I think abortion is perfectly okay.
For most cases. Like for the fetuses who will be born horribly deformed or retarded in a severely life altering way, or the mothers who can't handle the child.
I don't buy any of the 'studies' that the fetus can recognize it's mothers voice. It is not conscious of where it is, nor who the mother is. I don't believe that everything living has a conscious mind.
Hell, and if we could perform a safe abortion, then by god the mother should have all right to end her pregnancy if she can't handle raising the child (financially, emotionally or physically)
We need to worry about the 'rights' of children already born rather than the unborn.
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