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Peer Pressure and Bullying Social pressure can take many different forms, including intimidation, bullying and even physical attacks. If you feel you could be a victim or perpetrator (who wishes to stop) of bullying, talk about it here.

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Our Narcissistic Mother: Parts One & Two - December 26th 2020, 11:40 PM

This thread has been labeled as triggering, particularly on the subject of peer pressure or bullying, by the original poster or by a Moderator. The contents of this thread might therefore not be suitable for certain sensitive users. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

Part One.


My (late) mother always got angry when something good happened to me because like a typical narcissist, she couldn’t understand that I could be good - but also that she could be good at the same time. Mother never saw that. All she saw was me having what she couldn't, and I loved my hoodies and fashionable trainers and the kind of tech that during her years was never attainable. This was exactly where jealousy started putting down deep roots. Roots of resentment, culminating in downright nastiness. Long before our birth mother collapsed and died from cardiac arrest, my twin Julie and I began learning how to handle her highly unpleasant manner.

Narcs think of life in terms of pie. If I took a big piece of pie, then it was less for her. Obviously, life is not like a pie because everyone has to live it, but try to tell that to a narc!

Narcs have always carried huge jealousy problems because of this line of thinking. Narcissism is a personality disorder. So to them, life is like a pie and no one should get any of the pie if they are hungry. If someone is awarded money, or gifts or love or happiness, this could very much set a narc off. Their way of thinking way, why were those good things wasted on anyone but them?

Narcs don't respect boundaries. The reason for this is because to respect the boundaries of others is to channel one’s shame, which the narcissist avoids like the plague. Mother saw me chewing my hoodie strings and inside she cringed. She got irate when catching me because in her mind, chewing strings was perceived as dirty, and the hoodie she paid dearly for cost money she barely was able to afford, she said while ignoring the fact she was a very wealthy woman. She lashed out at Sis and me because underneath she felt bad for herself.

Mother was also annoyed because she thought she raised us to her own high standards. In her mind we were beneath those standards expected of us.

Boundaries are really tough for a narcissist. If you tell them "Do not cross this line", I guarantee 30 minutes later they'll be a half a mile over the line.

What kind of boundaries are reasonable?

How about, (A: "Speak and treat me with fundamental respect" and/or B) "Do not yell at me or put me down."

Obviously the specific boundaries depended on how my mother was hurting me the most.

Most importantly, beyond coping, I had a life to live. I realised my mother's narcissist issues were not my fault. This is why our care and healing and ultimately self-care, should become the number one priority. A long term commitment to meditation and studying the effects of being raised by a narcissist got Sis and I on that path. After some searching around on You Tube, we found Lisa A. Romano to be highly recommendable on dealing with manipulators and narcissists.

Mother searched for information behind my back, without asking me. She was also very good at baiting. I expected her to make more or less obvious jabs at my weak spots, stabbing at my Achilles Heel. I learnt not to be surprised, and I did not react, lest I provoked her wrath. In order to learn how to do that, I went looking again and discovered Richard Grannon. He has considerable valuable material that's accessible for free - again, it's on You Tube. Just key in 'Richard Grannon Narcissism'.

If Mother didn’t agree with anything I said, she would most likely give me, or Julie, the silent treatment. And this could go for days. When she hid her feelings, or when I confronted her, she wouldn’t talk. Mother said I was dirty for chewing my hoodie strings and threaten to take things away from me. Worse, withhold love until I got to do what she demanded. I lived through a painful time, one in which I thought I could not survive. I hid things. Especially my well loved hoodie. I learnt to become artful such as hiding it inside the button-on lining of my overcoat. Mother never found the hoodie, during which she went ballistic, demanding where I hid it. I gave the silent treatment until her rage blew away. Most days it was cat and mouse. But I decided it would be me who became the cat. Because like Julie I was learning, teaching myself with the aid of YouTube how to deal with my narc of a mother.

In everyday life, narcissists hide how they act, what they think, and ultimately their own shame and incapability. When they want to do something that involves someone else, they don’t ask, they just go ahead and do whatever comes to their head, as if they are entitled to do so. It's a narcissist's trait, so common.

If I confronted Mother about her behaviour, of trying to undermine my personal life, she would place representatives such as grandparents or ancient aunts to speak to me, so I just listened and gave impression of agreeing. There was no way to resist, neither reason. My aunts and grandparents were all tarred by the same brush, I told Julie who I protected. Narcissists’ confidence lies in their belief that they can deceive others, such as my identical twin and I. Our mother thought she was clever getting family members to support her, because this was the way she thought was correct. Which was quite evil really, by deliberately causing emotional distress to the other, usually saying something personal about them to rub it in further.

This way, narcs "stun" the other person, so their victim doesn't ask questions about what the narcissists actually hide for the fear of recriminations, of being punished all over again and worse, narcs will use their allies, sympathetic family members to back them up. Thankfully though this may sound heartless, but Julie and I didn't feel bad when our aunts died. They were the blueprint of our narcissistic mother.

Another ploy of our narcissistic mother was her making the other person, or one of us talk about something, irrelevant of the subject. This way, being the narcissist, she didn't have to speak, so she could keep hiding her own acts. Moreover, this way, narcs can judge and keep distracting the other person from finding out about their methods.

Narcissists act like a secret agent. They act like a secret agent and always do things in the background so no one sees them, so they don't feel shame. They keep hiding anything they do wrong over their lifetime. Mostly, they hide how they act intentionally, using clever words or giving an excuse to leave home when my sister and I least expected.

Narcissists also have control issues, and treat everyone like objects. Their power to control stems from ill possessiveness, towards the things they own, such as the house, and everything inside it.
Controlling behaviour is rooted in the principle that people control whatever they can have power over. And when they can't control themselves in some way, exaggerate on controlling other things which they can have power over, such as material possessions. Mother acted exactly like that, to a T.

Imagine your mother saying in an accusative way, "You have far more than I had when I was a child. Child, note, not 'teenager'. Because by saying "child", she is deliberately relegating you to be no more reasonable than a child, not a young lady who is far more perceptive than her friends, but who is struggling so hard because she's mostly all on her own, and feels isolated and vulnerable: Are you, if you are reading this, a victim of a narcissistic parent?

Controlling parents overuse the concept of material possession in order to cover up for the fact that they can't otherwise communicate with people. They are extremely selfish, and can't recognize their children as individuals. They generally follow a rule like:

"This is my house and my things and I will do whatever I damned well want with them!"

Narc parents like our mother are passive-aggressive, lack empathy and can sometimes act psychopathic. The latter, 'psychopathic', often happens in the week's run-up to their period. Hence the horrible staring way our mother had when being confronted when Julie or I retorted, eg.

"That's not right. These clothes are my property which I love and take care of - you're not going to throw them away!"

Narcissistic parents don’t make any useful rules in the house that take children’s benefit into account. The rule is "Everything is allowed", which means everything aside of the things they, the mother or the father, doesn’t want. However, narcs don't announce what those things are until one does them. So, they will just wait for you to do something and, if they don’t like it, they swiftly return with a "NO!"

This way, narcissists feel they have power and reinforce their exaggerated idea that everything belongs to them, and always get in the position where they can "punish hard" since they can claim that somebody "did something wrong in their property", although they never stated the rules so like us, you would never be able to know. Some controlling parents even go as far as simply not discussing anything at all with you, as if you are just an object. This was how we were treated.

Last edited by Celyn; January 5th 2021 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Moving to Peer Pressure and Bullying :)
   
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Re: Our Narcissistic Mother: Parts One & Two - December 26th 2020, 11:47 PM

Part Two.


Narc mums treat their children as enemies and strangers. They don't consider them part of their "family group". That is why Mother employed the silent treatment for so long, deliberately withholding love until Julie and I agreed to her terms. To resist her meant punishment, meted out with relish which was the trait of our sadistic mother. Who used a whip of which I will say no more.

In practice, our mother behaved as if we her daughters were like an enemy who had penetrated her camp. So, narcs ensure that the children have no power, no information, and are fully co-dependent on anything they do. It's a sad fact of life and many teenagers suffer, yet help is at hand if they only searched on the internet.

The reason for our mother's narcissistic behaviour was because she couldn't deal with her emotional problems which stemmed from her childhood. She felt shame towards us, tried to get rid the offending garment I enjoyed chewing, and Julie chewed her hoodie strings, too. That way, our mother took revenge to cover up her own private issues.

A narc's ultimate intention is to disturb others with their emotional problems. They try to protect against those who seem to display independent trust and love towards them. And so they can hide what they do in the background. To not be discovered having a narcissistic trait meant our mother could carry on undetected.

Narcs sound confident not because of what they say that moment, but because they are always hiding something. Any argument I had made Mother feel more confident, because being nasty she could distract me even more from what she was are hiding.

And Mother lied. She constantly pretended, by playing drama to its fullest, like something happened to her, or that she harboured a lot of worry. Anything she said was an excuse to hide something else.

Over time, Julie and I learnt to trust ourselves, our instincts, our emotions, and limit contact with our mother whenever possible, expect little to nothing from her so we could withdraw our reliance on her as often as often as we could. In order to do this successfully, we began learning how to recover.

It was no mean feat. Our mother's lack of empathy could not be understood because a normal mother would have a natural empathy towards her child, which was an essential area of development for the child which a narcissistic personality misses. Failing to demonstrate love, the mother creates an emptiness in her child. It was to Julie and mine's benefit that my sister and I could 'feed' off each other the love and understanding and empathy that twins possess.

Had it not been for Julie I would never have survived. And vice-versa. We grew close and as our mother demonstrated nothing but emotional manipulation with viciousness, so we became dependent on each other. We were always able to read each other's 'voice', but kept this ultra secret from our mother for fear of not knowing what that woman could have done to us. I was highly protective of Julie because our mother was acting the psycho, her heart devoid of feelings for us. Our mother was akin to a black hole, unable to give any care for our individual needs, sucking all our feelings into her void.

We were fourteen and it felt as if we were grieving, mourning for a loss that our mother neither cared a damn except for her selfish self. I am reminded of Jamie Anderson saying, "Grief, Iíve learned, is really just love. Itís all the love you want to give, but cannot. All that unspent love gathers up in the corners of your eyes, the lump in your throat, and in that hollow part of your chest. Grief is just love with no place to go."

I write with tears in my eyes, bringing Julie to sit beside me because she sensed my feelings. No words needing to be spoken, she picked up on me like iron filings attracted to a magnet. As I type, her hand rubs circles around my back. She knew I was writing this because writing is cathartic. Sitting with our grief, acknowledging it, and moving through its full spectrum of emotion was necessary for our healing, exchanging hugs, or a squeeze of the hand.

What we went through was profound trauma where we needed time to heal, emotionally and physically for the viciousness Mother did with her whip. Once we understood how Mother lived her narcissistic life, we began to understand its reality and with the help of books we read together, gradually we began taking down our blocks of denial piece by piece.

Generally speaking, narcissistic mothers are masters of manipulation using guilt trip. The only person you need to convince in order to heal and not be so ridden with guilt is yourself, pushing away and breaking down the mentality our narcissistic mother had trained us to only find fault with ourselves.

We drew pictures of ourselves, pictures in which we depicted comic book heroes. The stronger self-image we built up, the less the insults and put-downs our narcissistic mother affected us. If Julie and I were not be ridden by guilt, we had to really understand and get to the bottom of the truth through our eyes, not through the eyes of our mother who was so brutally emotionally abusive.

We had to train our minds to find who we were and in a positive way, so that when others doubted us, we didnít doubt ourselves. This is really important for people with narcissistic parents. Having a strong core self-image and working on it on a daily basis helped us combat our inner feelings of guilt.

Another thing that helped us was learning how to manage a negative conversation. A narcissistic parent is always throwing jabs and darts at their child, especially when they least expected it. If we learnt how to manage negative conversations, then we could avoid getting into another drama battle.

There were some sentences that we used when our narcissistic mother began attacking our way of trying to take care of her, making us feel as if nothing we did was enough, or that we weren't good enough. When Mother ranted off, we replied something like:

"Youíre entitled to have your own opinion, of course." - adding - "But itís such a shame you view things so negatively, looks like youíre getting very angry again." - or - "If thatís the way you choose to view things, then you're entitled to have those views, Mother." - or say - "Iím sorry itís so difficult for you to feel contentment. It must be such a terrible feeling."

Those statements are great when narcissists say something negative, because they deflect their own anger back onto them.

The reason Mother jabbed away at me or Julie was that when we felt negative, then we'd get an automatic negative emotional response back. That meant she was dipping into her 'tub' of narcissistic ammunition, but for why? Because she could see angst in our faces and read our tone.

The more we responded so angrily at her, then the higher Mother got, and by then she was well addicted to that high, her negativity built up into going ballistic, so the next day if Julie and I were careless, then our mother's anger would have got a lot worse. And we would physically suffer.

It was hell living with our narcissistic mother, but gradually, Julie and I began becoming able to detach ourselves from our mother's harsh judgemental attitudes because we actively worked by neutralizing her complaints and constant endless nagging.

Working on neutralizing the power our mother had on us was a daily task. Sometimes we'd fail, but other times we'd begun turning the tide on her narcissism.

One day when Julie and I went skiing, we dropped by at a ski lodge to take refreshments, when Julie gazed into the snowy distance and said, "You know, Wendi, but we should realize Mother may never change her narcissism. It will be present - " she gulped and turning slowly to look at me, opened her mouth to continue when tears coursed down her face.

"Our mother's just died. In the end we lost. We never won. Did we?"

At the same time Julie uttered those words I felt that same sudden helpless emptiness. Our mother, we somehow knew, had realised her end was near and dropped dead.

True to Julie's statement, our mother had indeed died. She and I had learnt a lot about our narcissistic mother, and in the battle of our dealing with her, wrote down our feelings, helping us, eventually, to put closure on her death.
   
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Re: Our Narcissistic Mother: Parts One & Two - December 27th 2020, 11:34 AM

Here are four excellent You Tube videos by Richard Grannon. There are more, but these make for good knowledge.


Covert Narcissists SECRET CrazyMaking Communication Weapon They Use To ABUSE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6vlnfdo5jI


The 3 Things Narcissists FEAR The Most & DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3KwVgdwBeI


Is it Covert Narcissism? 7 Signs that let you know!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RbgM0YfeYA


Covert Narcissists Who Use CRAZYMAKING COMMUNICATION To ABUSE YOU (Narcissists Secret Weapon): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI5bH68TeiQ


Richard Grannon has written three books (as far as we know)
   
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Re: Our Narcissistic Mother: Parts One & Two - January 16th 2021, 02:43 PM

Hi Wendi,

Thank you so much for your heartfelt write-up. I'm sorry that I couldn't respond earlier; I wanted to get to responding when I got some time to read your post fully and give it its due attention.

There were many things you mentioned here. In relation to dealing with narcissistic people, words cannot describe how difficult it is. I'm fortunate my parents are not narcissists, but my paternal grandfather came close to your description of a narcissist. He died last year and in our culture we tend not to talk badly of the dead, but I will honestly that he was very difficult to reason with, manipulative and only thought of his feelings and opinions as valid. To that end, he made life difficult for everyone who lived with him, including his own wife, my dad and uncle, and subsequently my mom and aunt (his daughters-in-law) after they married his sons. I'm sorry to hear that you and Julie had to grow up under the influence of a narcissistic mother. All growing children need is love and care; it is very painful to read that you and Julie did not receive such from your mother.

But I think it is very admirable that both you sisters stuck through thick and thin and found a way to deal with her while she was alive. You must have been pretty young then, so it would have been pretty tough. Like you mentioned in the part about drawing the pictures of yourselves with Julie, the beauty of life is that, no matter how difficult life gets, as humans we have the ability to make the most of any situation and remind ourselves of our own worth time and again.

I'm happy to know that you are in a much better place now. Everything happens for a reason. Bad periods of time also happen for a reason, but nothing in this world is permanent. Your time growing up under your birth mother will stay with you throughout your life, but you have learned so much from this experience that you have the maturity to deal with what life throws at you. Not many young people can do that now. We only learn from experience after all. If you feel that you need any form of post-traumatic stress therapy, I hope you have access to that sort of service. Sometimes it helps having a professional help us sort through our feelings.

If you ever need to chat, feel free to PM me


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Re: Our Narcissistic Mother: Parts One & Two - January 19th 2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallika View Post
Hi Wendi,

Thank you so much for your heartfelt write-up. I'm sorry that I couldn't respond earlier; I wanted to get to responding when I got some time to read your post fully and give it its due attention.

There were many things you mentioned here. In relation to dealing with narcissistic people, words cannot describe how difficult it is. I'm fortunate my parents are not narcissists, but my paternal grandfather came close to your description of a narcissist. He died last year and in our culture we tend not to talk badly of the dead, but I will honestly that he was very difficult to reason with, manipulative and only thought of his feelings and opinions as valid. To that end, he made life difficult for everyone who lived with him, including his own wife, my dad and uncle, and subsequently my mom and aunt (his daughters-in-law) after they married his sons. I'm sorry to hear that you and Julie had to grow up under the influence of a narcissistic mother. All growing children need is love and care; it is very painful to read that you and Julie did not receive such from your mother.

But I think it is very admirable that both you sisters stuck through thick and thin and found a way to deal with her while she was alive. You must have been pretty young then, so it would have been pretty tough. Like you mentioned in the part about drawing the pictures of yourselves with Julie, the beauty of life is that, no matter how difficult life gets, as humans we have the ability to make the most of any situation and remind ourselves of our own worth time and again.

I'm happy to know that you are in a much better place now. Everything happens for a reason. Bad periods of time also happen for a reason, but nothing in this world is permanent. Your time growing up under your birth mother will stay with you throughout your life, but you have learned so much from this experience that you have the maturity to deal with what life throws at you. Not many young people can do that now. We only learn from experience after all. If you feel that you need any form of post-traumatic stress therapy, I hope you have access to that sort of service. Sometimes it helps having a professional help us sort through our feelings.

If you ever need to chat, feel free to PM me

I'm sorry I didn't see this until now.

Julie and I were recently given support by a counselor who our doctor knew, so we did get help for the trauma long past, but had given us bad nights. Though we bear scars from what our cruel birth mother caused, the scars don't define us. It has been difficult to swim, but full body costume hid what neither of us wished to be seen. But the help we received did help us come to terms that Anna, our birth mother was not right in her head, putting it mildly and she never got help for her rages.

Once coronavirus leaves and everyone is vaccinated, Julie and I plan visiting Geneva and Lucerne in Switzerland to find out how our younger siblings died. We are the only two sisters who survived, so our search of birth and death records may be traumatic.

There are so many uncomfortable, unanswerable questions surrounding our dead siblings. It was only recently that we discovered old journals belonging to our late mother which inside gave us reason to be very concerned. Neither of us wish to even think that our younger brothers and sister had been killed, or how they died. It is this big question that is left us.

Our late mother left us, in addition to this beautiful old villa, a large collection of what are unmistakably expensive pens and some automatic high end timepieces with their watch winders. We still don't know whether to keep them or sell them off. Except the pens are beautiful. Strange that it seems, but Julie and I have a fascination for pens. Isn't that strange that we should inherit a passion for collecting pens? It's a bit spooky, though as we are incapacitated with chest infections, once we are well again, we'll take a closer look at them.

I must go. Maman has just arrived! Praise be!

I will pm you soon I hope, Mallika. Thank you for what you wrote.


ďMany of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.Ē - Thomas A. Edison.

Thomas Edison tried over two thousand times to invent the lightbulb.
   
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