| Today 07:25 AM |
| Mindfulness. |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I think someone who is of age should be allowed to join.
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| Yesterday 12:52 AM |
| Dude111 |
I think they should be able to do what tthey wanna do so YES i think they should be able to...
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| December 18th 2010 11:06 PM |
| Acheron |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Mostly repealed. The policy only comes to an end after a sixty-day review period by the Department of Defence. And after President Obama has signed it, of course, but that shouldn't be much of an obstacle. But yeah, it's past time that DADT died.
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| December 18th 2010 10:53 PM |
| her_beautiful_mistake |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Repealed!
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-ask-dont-tell
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| December 18th 2010 10:21 PM |
| Fictional |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylan
You have this all wrong. Our army (America in general) is not made for killing, we defend our freedom. We only kill if need be. With out a millitary we wouldn't be free like how we are now. We been in chaos and with no right going on.
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Our army (The one in the UK where I live) keeps going to fight America's wars and is killing innocent civilians on the other side of the world when they did nothing to provoke us into doing it.
Cba to read the other posts.
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| December 16th 2010 05:31 PM |
| dr2005 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile
Ahh yes, the fearsome fighting forces of New Zealand, I cower in fear at the thought. They're about as scary as the SS, riding around in tanks with the death's head on their hats and destroying anything in their way with their fearsome gay battalions. Yes, after fighting the British, and winning, the Germans, and winning, the Germans again and wining, the Koreans, and winning, the Communists and winning, and... ohh wait I am talking about the USA, thecountry that doesn't let gays in. If some man ran up to me and started demanding my surrender in a lisp, sure, scary, but I'd die from laughing first, "Uhhhm excuse me, sir, I'm going to have to ask you to put fown your scary guns, it's not right to shoot people, mmmkay, so let's put them down and all be friends, mmmmkay doll?" Hahahaha..... But seriosuly, simply for bunking reasons it's not okay.
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Leaving aside the woefully scant outlook of world military history you just gave there (War of 1812, Korean War being a stalemate, Vietnam War and Somalia), not to mention a distinct lack of awareness of the participation of the New Zealand Army in a number of conflicts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zeland_Army), the US Armed Forces do allow LGBT servicemen and servicewomen contrary to your assertion, even if they are not permitted to reveal their sexuality ("Don't Ask, Don't Tell" anyone?). The rest of your post is merely baseless stereotyping which warrants no comment whatsoever. In any event, nothing you have stated above demonstrates detriment to the armed forces I mentioned based solely on their decision to permit LGBT servicemen and servicewomen. So if you have evidence, now is the time.
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| December 16th 2010 06:36 AM |
| Spicy_ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Guile,
In general, may I ask how you know that LGBT wont be a good idea in the military? Never did you back up your statements, you just replyed back with a quick statement, and when people prove you wrong, you just change the subject?
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| December 16th 2010 03:49 AM |
| Guile |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005
I'd recommend watching the reimagined Battlestar Galactica's portrayals of Starbuck and Admiral Cain if you believe that to be the case. You will find that women are just as capable of being intimidating as men, and I can think of a number of other examples I could bring to bear.
A lot of the objections raised do seem to be based on stereotypes, and I find that quite frustrating. I would ask those objecting to provide evidence that the armed forces of the other NATO countries (including the UK), Russia or Australia and New Zealand have been detrimentally affected by allowing LGBT servicemen and servicewomen. I certainly cannot find any.
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Ahh yes, the fearsome fighting forces of New Zealand, I cower in fear at the thought. They're about as scary as the SS, riding around in tanks with the death's head on their hats and destroying anything in their way with their fearsome gay battalions. Yes, after fighting the British, and winning, the Germans, and winning, the Germans again and wining, the Koreans, and winning, the Communists and winning, and... ohh wait I am talking about the USA, thecountry that doesn't let gays in. If some man ran up to me and started demanding my surrender in a lisp, sure, scary, but I'd die from laughing first, "Uhhhm excuse me, sir, I'm going to have to ask you to put fown your scary guns, it's not right to shoot people, mmmkay, so let's put them down and all be friends, mmmmkay doll?" Hahahaha..... But seriosuly, simply for bunking reasons it's not okay.
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| December 16th 2010 01:04 AM |
| Kyeto-X |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
I don't have actual links, as I don't remember every URL I've ever seen but I remember at least one story where a group of female US soldiers stormed a building in Iraq (I believe) and they shouted for the terrorists inside to give up, and they just said no. Of course having a gun helps but put this way, same equipment, who's going to be more intimidating, a man or a woman?
Anyway, this is inconsequential, and for another topic. I think some people are misunderstanding my views however. I am totally for gay people to be in the military, I was simply asking people to consider both sides of the argument in that it does add a reputation, whether for good or for bad is up for other people to decide.
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So if someone storms your building, points a M16 at you and your buddies and happens to have a lisp saying "Get down on the ground, peoplesssss. We mean busssssinessss..." You would NOT obey them??
I have seen men in full combat attire and look silly. I have also seen women armed with wooden sppons that scared the shit out of me (namely my mother). Having ovaries, long hair, or a an affection for romantic comedies (all of which are stereotypes) Deos not in ANY way ruin combat effectiveness. It has to do with strength of character, not the depth of your voice. If you need to have a deep voice to be imtimiating, we have technology for that availiable in toy stores everywhere. It's call ed a voice changer :P
Or we could just put Goa'uld in their heads :P
First of all, having a lisp or dancing around in fairy costumes does not make you gay any more then wearing a football jeresey and crushing a beercan on your head makes you straight. Second, It really doesn't matter HOW your voice sounds when you have a rifle in your hand, people will generally respond in the same way (fight, flight, or freeze) whether or not you roll your r's. and Thirdly, Again, as stated above, The militray have STRICT unifomr requirments that allows NO room for pink fairy tutu's over active camo.
I do not think that allow LGBTs into our military is going to effect our "fearsome" factor at all.
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| December 15th 2010 08:43 AM |
| Spicy_ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil'TeppyLala
Please, stop with the stereotyping. I know very few gay men who are camp. Sexuality has nothing to do with ability to fight. Gay men are also not horny all the time and aren't going to jump on you just because you're male. In fact, a lot of them would probably already be in a loving relationships with people outside the military.
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EXACTLY!! See why can't our leader see this? Everyone bases this law with typical streotypes. People need to see past this, people dont even know how much LGBT are in the military but in hiding. We have yet to witness a recent problem with them? People can't even tell them apart, we fight just as good, maybe even better
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| December 14th 2010 06:15 PM |
| forfrosne |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005
If you indeed have such evidence of detriment directly linked to the presence of LGBT servicemen and servicewomen, I would be quite keen to hear it. Merely saying "several wars" is not really sufficient.
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I don't have actual links, as I don't remember every URL I've ever seen but I remember at least one story where a group of female US soldiers stormed a building in Iraq (I believe) and they shouted for the terrorists inside to give up, and they just said no. Of course having a gun helps but put this way, same equipment, who's going to be more intimidating, a man or a woman?
Anyway, this is inconsequential, and for another topic. I think some people are misunderstanding my views however. I am totally for gay people to be in the military, I was simply asking people to consider both sides of the argument in that it does add a reputation, whether for good or for bad is up for other people to decide.
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| December 14th 2010 05:05 PM |
| dancinfool |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
To suggest that someone is any less physically intimidating because they are gay is ridiculous- there's lots of things that affect how 'scary' someone can be but I'm pretty sure sexuality isn't one of them...
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| December 14th 2010 05:01 PM |
| dr2005 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
I disagree, and I have several wars of evidence to back me up.
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If you indeed have such evidence of detriment directly linked to the presence of LGBT servicemen and servicewomen, I would be quite keen to hear it. Merely saying "several wars" is not really sufficient.
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| December 14th 2010 04:49 PM |
| forfrosne |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005
I'd recommend watching the reimagined Battlestar Galactica's portrayals of Starbuck and Admiral Cain if you believe that to be the case. You will find that women are just as capable of being intimidating as men, and I can think of a number of other examples I could bring to bear.
A lot of the objections raised do seem to be based on stereotypes, and I find that quite frustrating. I would ask those objecting to provide evidence that the armed forces of the other NATO countries (including the UK), Russia or Australia and New Zealand have been detrimentally affected by allowing LGBT servicemen and servicewomen. I certainly cannot find any.
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I disagree, and I have several wars of evidence to back me up.
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| December 14th 2010 03:52 PM |
| dr2005 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
Difference is, most male soldiers are, but I'd be willing to bet most wouldn't be intimidated by a woman.
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I'd recommend watching the reimagined Battlestar Galactica's portrayals of Starbuck and Admiral Cain if you believe that to be the case. You will find that women are just as capable of being intimidating as men, and I can think of a number of other examples I could bring to bear.
A lot of the objections raised do seem to be based on stereotypes, and I find that quite frustrating. I would ask those objecting to provide evidence that the armed forces of the other NATO countries (including the UK), Russia or Australia and New Zealand have been detrimentally affected by allowing LGBT servicemen and servicewomen. I certainly cannot find any.
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| December 14th 2010 11:55 AM |
| noise94 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Please, stop with the stereotyping. I know very few gay men who are camp. Sexuality has nothing to do with ability to fight. Gay men are also not horny all the time and aren't going to jump on you just because you're male. In fact, a lot of them would probably already be in a loving relationships with people outside the military.
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| December 14th 2010 10:04 AM |
| forfrosne |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylan
buddy, trust me, there are lotts of current military soldiers who ARENT SCARY AT ALL!
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Difference is, most male soldiers are, but I'd be willing to bet most wouldn't be intimidated by a woman.
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| December 14th 2010 09:13 AM |
| Spicy_ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
intimidating or scary to any degree. Sure they can, mostly, perform to the same average as men can, but they don't have any intimidation/fear factor.
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buddy, trust me, there are lotts of current military soldiers who ARENT SCARY AT ALL!
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| December 14th 2010 09:10 AM |
| Spicy_ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guile
It diminishes the outward appearance of our military as a powerful force, this looks scary,
....no way am I posting that, just google image "gay parade" and you will see what I mean...
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How does a gay parade have to do with this? Do you honestly think were going to full around and parade around in tights? You got that all wrong buddy. I bet LGBT can shoot a rifle just as a good as a straight. Why are you guys (senators included) so against this? It's not like were going to *ape someone or such? You guys dont know and don't bother to know that WE CAN AND WILL FIGHT AS GOOD AS YOU GUYS. You guys say it run the risk of sexual privacy? What about when a male and female hook up in the military? Its all g, but when its a guy and guy then its wrong and both of them get discharged?
This is all following how you guys felt about the blacks in the military in ww2, soon you guys will wake up and see our points, and you guys will see us prosper just like blacks in ww2.
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| December 14th 2010 09:07 AM |
| forfrosne |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Actually Guile does have a point. I don't think it outweighs the rights of gay people or that its useful to have more potential troops, but its a fair point. Although I doubt gay people will be wearing rainbow uniform or anything, its more the reputation I think. Its one of the problems women are facing in the army. They just aren't intimidating or scary to any degree. Sure they can, mostly, perform to the same average as men can, but they don't have any intimidation/fear factor.
I think, when considering the upsides/downsides, they should be allowed in, but you DO have to recognise the possible negative consequences.
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| December 14th 2010 08:12 AM |
| Guile |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
As a general reply, to save time in replying to each question individually, as they were all generally the same.
It diminishes the outward appearance of our military as a powerful force, this looks scary, 
NOT THIS,
....no way am I posting that, just google image "gay parade" and you will see what I mean...
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| December 13th 2010 04:49 PM |
| Brandon |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
As long as you're in the military, it's not gay.
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| December 13th 2010 12:07 AM |
| Kyeto-X |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
My personal opinion? A homosexual can shoot a rifle just as straight as a heterosexual. It is stupid to discriminate against people based on what they do form the comfort of their own sex swing. 
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| December 12th 2010 11:51 PM |
| ~Mr. Self Destruct~ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I am quite Liberal and I very much want advancements in equal rights, but I can see a positive aspect here.
We are keeping people out of a war of complete bullshit.
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| December 12th 2010 10:53 PM |
| ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
One of the biggest problems could be they do not want them to be shot on purpose by friendly fire.
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| December 12th 2010 10:48 PM |
| NonIndigenous |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed in the army. I just don't get it. What the hell has it got to do with anything.
Extra training? For what... exactly?
Invasion of privacy? Ok... I don't know the details, but I DO know, there are both men and women in the army, SO... from that angle I don't see any difference.
Actually I get it now, but it took an hour of my philosophy. They are trying to increase the gene pool of LGBTs in the general population by not sending them to war. Makes perfect sense. Perhaps they are trying to stem the population growth in the long term to reduce the public demands on the government?
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| December 12th 2010 10:36 PM |
| shimmeringfaerie |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs
You said that you were not for teens serving based on the fact that their brains are not fully developed and they take more risks than older adults. Does booze mess with your brain? If so then why let an 18 year old drink which can be risky yet they can not fight to protect others?
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I don't believe I ever said that I support the legal drinking age. Personally, I don't think teenagers should be drinking either. But this debate isn't about that.
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| December 12th 2010 10:09 PM |
| Tara. |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Honestly, isn't it more dangerous for LGBT to be open gay in the military?
Though, sexual orientation is a ridiculous reason to keep someone from serving their country.
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| December 12th 2010 09:46 PM |
| ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie
The legal drinking age is 18, but I don't really see what your point is. I'm pretty sure if a member of the army turned up to work drunk, they would be in a lot of trouble and would, at the very least, be sent home for the day.
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You said that you were not for teens serving based on the fact that their brains are not fully developed and they take more risks than older adults. Does booze mess with your brain? If so then why let an 18 year old drink which can be risky yet they can not fight to protect others?
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| December 12th 2010 09:17 PM |
| shimmeringfaerie |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs
What is the drinking age over there? Booze messes with the brain like a lot right?
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The legal drinking age is 18, but I don't really see what your point is. I'm pretty sure if a member of the army turned up to work drunk, they would be in a lot of trouble and would, at the very least, be sent home for the day.
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| December 12th 2010 07:42 PM |
| Kaydea |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I was under the impression that they had gotten rid of the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy... And that any sexual preference could now openly serve?
That's what my recruiter told me?
O_O
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| December 12th 2010 07:15 PM |
| Double X |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mewithYou
I honestly don't think it should be able to open. Not because I think the idea is ridiculous, but because I think it would distract gay and straight militants alike. However, I think the decision should be up to the military and the people in the military since they'd be the ones to deal with it.
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Should we be more like China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia?
Or like UK, Germany, or Sweden?
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| December 12th 2010 06:06 PM |
| DeletedAccount31 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I think gays should be allowed to serve openly in the military, and I believe one of the main points that is deterring some people from wanting this is the "invasion of sexual privacy." However, members of the LGBT community have morals too. If they're half-decent, they're not going to force their sexuality on you if you do not want it, and they are not going to watch you get changed or the like. If they're truly dedicated to defending their country, they wouldn't risk their position by doing any of these things anyway. If this happens, it just means that the culprit was indecent and probably should not be welcomed into the military at any rate.
I also see sexuality as rather irrelevant to the military. The reason I want it repealed is more so that LGBT members cannot be kicked out if they're discovered, not so they can go around proclaiming their sexuality to all of their comrades. I don't see why it matters what someone's sexuality is -- gay, straight, or otherwise. The goal of the military is to defend your country ultimately, and I don't see the point of dwelling on it.
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| December 12th 2010 04:42 PM |
| dr2005 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I've always held the view that a person's fitness to serve in the Armed Forces should be based upon their physical fitness to serve in the role, their ability to carry out their role and their dedication to protecting their country and abiding by the rules of engagement and applicable laws. Factors such as gender, religion, political views or sexuality are to my mind irrelevant so long as they do not encourage discrimination within the ranks or encourage illegal conduct (such as extremist views promoting violence against certain groups). On that basis, I see no coherent logical reason why LGBT persons should not be allowed to serve in the Armed Forces. The ban in the US seems to be based solely on appeasing deep-rooted prejudice, and I can assure you that repealing such restrictions has had no impact whatsoever on the Armed Forces here in the UK. It's practically a non-issue for most people.
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| December 12th 2010 04:30 PM |
| John 6:29 |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I honestly don't think it should be able to open. Not because I think the idea is ridiculous, but because I think it would distract gay and straight militants alike. However, I think the decision should be up to the military and the people in the military since they'd be the ones to deal with it.
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| December 12th 2010 04:04 PM |
| Loving Linux Penguin |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
No person should be barred from serving in the armed forces on a basis of race, gender, original place of origin (as long as they are a citizen) or sexual orientation. So what if you are LGBT? Does that mean that you can't be just as good with a gun than anyone else? Hell no. If they want to serve, let them serve. And make it policy that any officer who harasses a LGBT soldier can be stripped of rank or otherwise punished for their actions.
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| December 12th 2010 02:04 PM |
| Anomaly |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
I think people from the LGBT community should be able to serve in the military. Theres not anything physically or mentally wrong with the people of the LGBT community so why should we not be able to serve our country. I thought that was what the military was about putting aside peoples differnces and fighting for the greater good.
'
Somebody brought up to me once they don't they should because the same sex lives with each other and showers with each other all that stuff, and they don't want somebody that's gay watching them take a shower for example. I think thats a bunch of crap as well. People need to stop being so full of themselves. That comes from the stupid thought that just because your gay your going to like every single guy or just because your a lesbian means your going to like every single female. Which is obivoulsly false.
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| December 12th 2010 01:47 PM |
| ALLorNOTHINGforCHRIST |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie
Well, there's the fact that the brain isn't fully developed at 18. Particularly with males, the area of the brain that determines risk isn't fully developed until several years later than that (mid 20s if I recall correctly). That's why teenagers are a lot more likely to do risky things than adults are. I wouldn't want people who are going to put their lives and other people's lives at risk being in the army. But that's really got nothing to do with this topic.
I don't see why LGBT people shouldn't be allowed to serve in the army. I agree with Fictional that I'm iffy about teenagers being in the army in general, but there's no reason why gender or sexual orientation should be a decider.
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What is the drinking age over there? Booze messes with the brain like a lot right?
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| December 12th 2010 04:09 AM |
| Spicy_ |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommy.Wife.Student
I actually spoke to a retired Navy about this once and he said that the way that African American people are still tormented in the military, he thinks it would only cause more chaos for LGBT people to be allowed in. It's just such a shame that it has to be that way.
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I really agree. LGBT is almost like saying the Japanese or the blacks couldn't serve in the military. If the blacks or Japanese were eventually allowed to enter the military, so should LGBT. There is no difference, we won't fight differently..etc
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| December 12th 2010 02:52 AM |
| Double X |
Re: Should LGBT Teens be able to openly serve in the military?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love dogs
Wait isn't that what all armed forces do to defend their own country. We usually do not go into somewhere because we do not like them we do so because we feel they are a threat and as for your older cousin did he go in TO kill people or to defend his country in times of war meaning he may HAVE to kill people.
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So...we are defending our nation by going over to another territory we have no jurisdiction over and shooting a bunch of civilians? Okay...
We should have a military, but it shouldn't step outside our borders unless there is agreement with the U.N.
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