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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 02:00 AM

Ok so I have been thinking what if ( I'm using 12 year old terms I'm not very smart ) religion was all a big joke untill someone took it waaayyyy to seriesly I mean say two cave man were fishing and one gets a big fish and tells the other a invisible person or what ever just helped me catch my fish, or well you know what I mean right?


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 03:16 PM

I can see your point, I've always kinda questioned how many religions started and if any actually are based on factual things or just stories of some kind.
   
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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 05:08 PM

Well, there's facts about certain religions and there's stories about how the religion came to be. For instance, there was a man named Abraham who did travel all throughout the middle east, but that's not necessarily an indication that Abraham had any relation to God. We don't know whether Jesus was a real person or not, Matthew, part of the Bible, was someone who apparently knew Jesus personally and some other dude knew Jesus from someone else (I think it was John or something). The documents show that Matthew's writings and stories came from the same source as the other guy's stories that he got from his friends even though Matthew and John (or someone) have never seen each other or communicated with each other...coincidence? That's up to your interpretation. Every religion has a story about how it came to be; there are facts, but most of it is stories...especially when it comes to supernatural beings. A lot of historical evidence of a religion's beginning is either undiscovered, burned, etc.
   
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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 05:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
We don't know whether Jesus was a real person or not
Well, we kinda do, from various historical sources...but nevermind .

I can very much see where this thread's coming from - it's probably a tad more complicated than that, and I'm not going to insult a load of people by saying it's definitely true or not.
I do personally think that something along the lines of it being something "made up" (though not necessarily to be deliberately misleading) may have accuracy in the founding of some religions.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael98 View Post


Well, we kinda do, from various historical sources...but nevermind .

I can very much see where this thread's coming from - it's probably a tad more complicated than that, and I'm not going to insult a load of people by saying it's definitely true or not.
I do personally think that something along the lines of it being something "made up" (though not necessarily to be deliberately misleading) may have accuracy in the founding of some religions.
"Kinda." Either we do or we don't...doesn't necessarily have to be Jesus Christ, but needs to be Jesus. My friend's name is Jesus, but that doesn't mean he's Jesus Christ. lol
   
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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 08:14 PM

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"Kinda." Either we do or we don't...doesn't necessarily have to be Jesus Christ, but needs to be Jesus. My friend's name is Jesus, but that doesn't mean he's Jesus Christ. lol
Ohhhhhh, I see what you mean.

I thought you were disputing the existence of any entity named Jesus in the Roman Times who went round preaching .
My apologies.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 27th 2013, 08:32 PM

Actually Jesus was recorded in Roman and Arabic and Greek texts. Now these people believed he was just a religious leader they did NOT call him the son of god. If you remove the fact that he is the son of God in the Bible it is very possible that he really was a Jewish guy who had an idea and had the charisma that people rallied around and, for example, there is some anesthetic available in that region where it could have been on the sponge that he was given on the cross, thus making him "appear" dead because of that and then he just up and walked away when it wore off due to the fact that he would defs be killed if the Romans found him. Now I am NOT trying to say that this is what happened but it is just one such possible theory that has been put out there by Biblical scholars that suggests how, yes, Jesus could have been who he was, but what if you look at it from a "no divine influence" kind of view So I think you can take most stuff and look at it from, well if he believed this and looked at it like this how could it REALLY have happened (without even having to deviate) if you remove the divinity from it. Everyone will hold their own theories though, so please don't bother arguing over my point of view, I'm just giving one point of view that I know of that explains why Jesus could have existed outside of a Biblical/divine manner, it doesn't have to be your point of view, he doesn't have to exist, I just don't think it has to be one or the other (you believe in God, thus Jesus, or you don't and therefore he's a fictive person intended to teach the religion).


Any ways, more to the point, I do sort of have to agree, the origins of religion are a bit of an anomaly. It's a lot of "where did people even get these ideas from? was it just a nice story told to kids to get them to sleep at night?". But realistically, I think that the development of religion can give some basis to it. Even if you include science, most religions (and science) have sought to explain the notions of the world and the notions of how to live like a good person etc. I think that actually, if you look at each religion and where/how it developed (location, the people, the economics and politics etc) can speak a lot to the development of each religion, which can explain for the diversity of each religion. It's interesting to note that there are small (and inconsequental) similarities between religions. Like there is usually some kind of afterlife and usually some kind of higher *something* that helps people make their decisions. Ah well, I do understand the developmnt of religion if nothing else. But because I am speaking kind of vaguely about it i am hoping that this makes sense at all. I think that its' just something that's always bonded a community and I don't know if it'll ever be possible to explain why this communal unity manifested itself in the form of religion, but I think that its just one such point of view that can help understand whether it whether you think religion is some cosmic joke or man made or if its really "divinely given" (bear in mind that that's quoted because not all religions have that perspective, I just mean more in the sense that it just is something that exists which people some how stumbled across and that the nature of the religon expected to be given to humans or something, like I said, I'm speaking generally to *all* religions, so just take that and apply the concept I am trying to explain as necessary)




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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - March 31st 2013, 09:56 PM

Im 12 use small words please.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 1st 2013, 01:56 AM

I didn't use big words?




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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 2nd 2013, 01:58 PM

Not you I mean the other people's.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 2nd 2013, 04:05 PM

First look at what "religion" really is. It's a belief system of some sort, with people who believe in something (whatever it is). That's why in theory you could even say different political views are forms of religion.

There are plenty of examples of how religions come into existence even today. Here's a list of "new" religions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ious_movements

Religions usually form under the leadership of some person. That's basically it. In more depth... religions usually form when people feel more desperate for answers which aren't being given to them. "Hard times" in other words. When people are desperate, they're often prepared to believe in anything and follow anyone. They're looking for a "role model". So then you get a certain type of person, who becomes a leader, and "guides" his followers, who too often believe anything the leader says,... which isn't a good thing, because there'l always be people who try to abuse this power. Basically, there's almost always at least one asshole who tries to take advantage of the situation.

It isn't something easy to explain to a 12 year old (no offence). I've tried to keep it as simple as I can. It's a difficult topic.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 2nd 2013, 06:06 PM

Its very difficult to explain to ANYONE like BDF said... Like I said, understanding the beginning origins of religions can be a bit of an anomaly. I study religion so it's my job to wrap my mind around it. But it really boils down to cultural development. I feel like understanding sociology also helps. A lot of the stuff such as Elemental Religions by Emile Durkheim would probably be a bit more than what you want to read but it forms out of leadership, out of culture etc. You also have to understand other cultures. For example, the aboriginal people of the Americas and Australia tend to be more nature based. Like the aboriginal people around north America (like from the east side of the rockies to about Quebec/New York) believe in the Creator, they believe in the four directions and such, it's so hard to explain without totally detracting from the point... The way religion manifests itself (the way it is shaped, how it looks, the form it takes etc) largely depends on the culture.

All I can tell you for certain is that religion (including atheism I guess) is in someways a product of civilization, just look at all the variety there is, look at their spread and which groups of people most likely adhere to them.... it really does take a certain understanding about historical events and cultures and geography to work out how religions developed though and it can be confusing to understand them otherwise




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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 2nd 2013, 09:16 PM

Listen to "The Answer" by Bad Religion.

I think religions can be created in many different ways, though generally not as a "joke." You can have a charismatic leader with a few character flaws and mental disturbances (cough Barack Obama cough) who spreads his "gospel" or whatever he chooses to call it. Targeted at the right people, this can be very effective. Look at all the cults and small sects in America. You have Joseph Smith with the Mormons, David Koresh, Charles Russell for the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. Then the guys who actually had a bit of sense -- Jesus, Muhammad, etc.

It can easily be a power thing, as in the Catholic church in Rome. Fear and worship are powerful tools for subduing the masses and giving them hope (in eternal life, perhaps). Tends to keep the troublemakers in line.

Finally it can be explanatory, as in ancient religions, Chinese polytheism, Hinduism, Greek gods, etc.



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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 3rd 2013, 05:11 PM

The problem with knowing how religion started is the fact that the texts that explain it are religious and therefore biased... We don't have enough historical evidence to prove (and therefore disprove) religion being true.

Now I personally am religious, but I'm not going to argue that it's clearly true, because that's just my belief, and there's no proof for it.


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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 8th 2013, 05:54 PM

The way I see religion is like this:
(I'll use Christianity since it's the obvious one)
Pretty much every story told by the bible was told generations before hand, and adapted. We know this because of writings that date back further than the time of Jesus.
People thousands of years ago were a lot simpler, so these stories were easier to explain and tell, and they stood the test of time.
Jesus was real, we know this, was he the son of God? Highly unlikely. He wasn't as pure as the bible depicts him, there are many accounts written within the bible itself saying how Jesus whipped those who disagreed with him and how he destroyed property. He endorsed domestic violence, and slavery. He sounds as human as anyone from that period.
It's likely that he was somewhat nicer than people, and got recognized for this, making people hail him as the son of god (seeing as they were simpler and probably easier to manipulate).

So, in the end I think it started because people were delusional about it, and passed it through their families which spread outwards and everything continued from there.
   
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Re: Religion a joke gone wrong? - April 8th 2013, 07:34 PM

Religion is a very complicated construct in our society. It is so much more than the bible or Christianity. Perhaps if you do some research on the history of religion you might have a better understanding about how our modern version of it has come to be.

For the most part, people have always wondered where we have come from. For a very long time we did not know about evolution or how genetics work. So people did their best to "fill in the blanks" about things they did not understand. They created stories and lived by them to help alleviate the stress of the unknown. It is not to say that religion is just a series of stories that are not true, they are still very important to our culture. But, either way, whether they are true or not, they are very important to some people. So it is always best if we try to be respectful, even of things that we may not understand. Just because it makes sense to them, does not mean it will make sense to you and thats ok. Just ask your questions politely and try to see things from their perspective the best you can.




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