Is coerced/forced consent considered rape?

[Jennaholt]

Say you tell someone you don't want to have sex, and they keep asking you again and again, and you say "yes", not because you want to, but because you think you have to or they might keep asking again till you say yes.

Is this situation considered rape?

[Latte]

Yes!

It likely won't fit into the legal definition of rape, but that's also why I generally say "sexual assault" because similar things happened to me with an ex and I don't want to have to quibble over how people define rape in order to be taken seriously and if I talk about sexual assault, then I feel like I have ownership over the narrative. But yes, I would consider it a form of rape. Any time sex is coercive and against what you want it's rape / sexual assault

If that happened to you, I am so sorry and please know that it's not your fault. If you are at risk of being in a situation of this happening again, I would consider telling someone you know and not spending time with this person ever again if possible. You can talk to me if you need to, my message inbox is open.

[Celyn]

I agree with the above.

It's difficult to say whether it would be classed as rape, legally, as that would depend on where you are and how the law in your area defines rape.

But outside of the legalities, rape is when sex occurs without consent. Consent is when you really want to have sex with the other person and this is shown in what you say and do and your body language- that you are reciprocating and are just as enthusiastic as the other person (you may want to look up enthusiastic consent). You also can't consent if you are heavily under the influence of alcohol or drugs or you are under the age of consent in your area.

Consent is not the abscence of this as in 'you didn't say no' and it's not feeling pressured to say yes, or 'giving in' when the person has persisted. In these situations, your feelings (that you don't want to have sex) are not being respected and the person has put themselves and want they want before you. This is not healthy, or equal and is abusive.

Hope you are okay

[Rivière]

In this context, I personally think it is. You said no and they wouldn't listen. They disregarded your wishes and continued asking because it's what they wanted. They didn't care about how you were feeling or the fact you said no. Instead they just kept asking you and asking you until you submitted and bent to their wishes, despite not being interested.

[JohnPotter]

correctly advise

[Proud90sKid]

I don't believe so. Whether or not someone was "coerced" can be highly subjective. IME women can be extremely fickle and (for me) impossible to read at times. Many have this communication style where they say one thing but mean another. Men cannot be expected to be mind readers. And at the end of the day, yes is still yes. Having sex with someone who has said yes reluctantly is still very different from just forcing yourself on someone who is explicitly not consenting.

What if a woman simply changes her mind? From no to yes?

Also what qualifies as coercion? I may give money to an escort who may not normally want to have sex with me nor feel an attraction to me. Is that rape?

Or what if a wife is no longer sexually interested in the husband but is maintaining a sexual relationship with him for financial stability (perhaps without even his awareness that there was a loss of attraction)?

I'm sorry P90sK, but your response is ludicrous. No means no and if a woman was forced into saying yes, then it's still coercion. Coercion is rape, no matter how you try to spin it; because she didn't even want to have sex in the first place. An escort's job is to provide general services that are not sexual; you're probably thinking of a prostitute, you hire them for sex. Oh, and if a woman is no longer interested in having sex with her husband but wants the financial stability... gee, how many episodes of CSI have I seen about that one?!

[Ennui.]

Originally Posted by Proud90sKid

I don't believe so. Whether or not someone was "coerced" can be highly subjective. IME women can be extremely fickle and (for me) impossible to read at times. Many have this communication style where they say one thing but mean another. Men cannot be expected to be mind readers. And at the end of the day, yes is still yes. Having sex with someone who has said yes reluctantly is still very different from just forcing yourself on someone who is explicitly not consenting.

What if a woman simply changes her mind? From no to yes?

Also what qualifies as coercion? I may give money to an escort who may not normally want to have sex with me nor feel an attraction to me. Is that rape?

Or what if a wife is no longer sexually interested in the husband but is maintaining a sexual relationship with him for financial stability (perhaps without even his awareness that there was a loss of attraction)?

Hey!

At least in the United States as well as other areas like the United Kingdom, coercion is actually legally recognized as a form of sexual assault.

While nobody is a mind reader as you said, there are definitely things that could be watched out for. Consent looks for an enthusiastic yes, not just the absence of a no. Here is the definition laid out by RAINN, which explains more about enthusiastic consent.

If someone is reluctantly saying yes, there is definitely an opportunity to stop what you're doing. If you can tell someone is hesitant it's best not to continue on. You can tell them, "I can tell you are reluctant, so I am going to stop now," or ask them "You seem reluctant, is this really okay?" A reluctant yes isn't an enthusiastic yes. Saying "I'm not sure" isn't a yes.

Planned Parenthood defines sexual coercion here. To sum it up, one thing that is considered coercion is repeatedly asking or pressuring the other person. "Oh come on, please? You know you want to. Just do it." It may be repeatedly touching the person and even though the person moves their hand away, you put it back and continue to touch them. It may be guilting them into sex by saying something like "you don't really love me if you won't have sex with me." It can be manipulation by shaming the person or withholding attention or needed items if they won't have sex with you. It can be making someone feel obligated to have sex with you due to your relationship status with that person (ie we're married, so you HAVE to have sex with me). It can be pressuring the other person to do more than they are comfortable with. It can be threatening the person with consequences such as breaking up or threatening to leak photos or other things of a sexual nature about the person. Or, it can be something like getting the person drunk or high in order to get them to have sex. The list goes on, so I suggest you look at that link. These links also go over more about what sexual assault is.

The other thing with consent is that it can be revoked at any time. If you hire someone to have sex with you and they consent to that sex act, fine, but they also have the right to revoke the consent at any time, even during the sex act.

The last issue you addressed seems like a breakdown of communication between husband and wife, but if there is ever a lack of consent on either side, there becomes a problem.

Here's a video that compares sex to making a cup of tea. You offer someone a cup of tea and they're very happy accepting it, they want tea. If they say they aren't sure if they want tea, don't get upset if they don't drink the tea. If they say no to tea, don't make them tea and don't get upset with them for not wanting tea. They may want tea at first, but after the tea is made they don't want to drink it, and they aren't obligated to drink it. They've changed their mind. If they're unconscious and can't answer with whether or not they want tea, don't make them tea. Someone who wanted tea a few days ago may not want tea today, and don't get upset with them about that. Don't force people to have tea when they don't want it, and learn how to understand when people don't want tea. The same goes to consent.

I hope this clears up some confusion for you.

[Proud90sKid]

Originally Posted by Ethereal.

I'm sorry P90sK, but your response is ludicrous. No means no and if a woman was forced into saying yes, then it's still coercion. Coercion is rape, no matter how you try to spin it; because she didn't even want to have sex in the first place. An escort's job is to provide general services that are not sexual; you're probably thinking of a prostitute, you hire them for sex. Oh, and if a woman is no longer interested in having sex with her husband but wants the financial stability... gee, how many episodes of CSI have I seen about that one?!

Forcing someone to have sex is different than merely asking them several times.

What are these "general services" you refer to? Because sexual activity is what people are expecting when they hire an escort. Few women call themselves "prostitutes" for legal and social reasons. It is essentially the derogatory term while escort is the euphemistic one. The "payment for their time" thing is merely for plausible deniability in case of a sting. There exists very little demand for platonic escort.

There's probably at least 15 different "brick and mortar brothels" in your very own town operating under the guise of an "asian massage parlor". These are often in random unassuming shopping centers and often in decent areas. I've always found it crazy how blatant it actually is and how it goes hidden in plain sight and the average person doesn't even notice it.. I know of a few places in my own town where I could just walk in any time, pay a "tip" and have sex with a random woman. Like escorts, they operate under the principle of plausible deniability.

There are the street walkers too and maybe someone would call them prostitutes, but they are essentially the same thing as an escort, they just advertise in a different way.

In any case, seeing an escort/"prostitute" for sex is not coercion or rape.