UK Teachers: Ban Homework For Kids Under 11

[Grizabella]

I think we need to find a method of teaching where the students actually learn the material, rather than learn how to do good on assignments and tests. I have no idea what that method might be, but I think we need one. In almost all of my classes in high school, I rotely learned the material (through the homework my teachers threw at me), retained it just long enough to pass a test or exam, and then it was in one ear and out the other. I didn't learn very much content in high school, I learned how to beat the system.

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by Deedlit

Keep the homework I say. Having a fight with your kid about getting them to do their homework doesn't do any lasting damage, and it really woul dmake all the difference in the future.

And for the record, my school started at 8.55am and finished at 3.30 or 3.35 depending on which floor you were on. 15 mins for playtime and 50 mins for lunch.

Two things. One, getting either of my siblings to do their homework is a full out fight. Like, it's not a one time thing. Things usually get thrown, my brother has even ran away because he doesn't want to do his homework. Yeah, my family is crazy, but there are various other kids who have the same problem. Maybe not that extreme, but it CAN have lasting damage depending on the family.

Second, we definitely didn't have that much time for lunch. I am insanely jealous. We literally had to eat in five minutes. We had a twenty minute lunch, it took us five minutes to get to the cafeteria, five minutes to get through the line because our school was stupid, five minutes to eat, and you had to be outside for at least five minutes.

Originally Posted by Kate

But your all focused on your own opinions rather than the ones in the article. Yes, maybe homework didnt always work for you but does that mean that ALL homework should be banned from ALL children?? Hell to the no!

It's our experiences that will speak for those of who are going through it now. =) How else are we supposed to form an opinion?

Originally Posted by Grizabella

I think we need to find a method of teaching where the students actually learn the material, rather than learn how to do good on assignments and tests. I have no idea what that method might be, but I think we need one. In almost all of my classes in high school, I rotely learned the material (through the homework my teachers threw at me), retained it just long enough to pass a test or exam, and then it was in one ear and out the other. I didn't learn very much content in high school, I learned how to beat the system.

I completely agree!

[Care-o-Bear]

Originally Posted by Grizabella

I think we need to find a method of teaching where the students actually learn the material, rather than learn how to do good on assignments and tests. I have no idea what that method might be, but I think we need one. In almost all of my classes in high school, I rotely learned the material (through the homework my teachers threw at me), retained it just long enough to pass a test or exam, and then it was in one ear and out the other. I didn't learn very much content in high school, I learned how to beat the system.

That is SO true! I mean, the things I'm learning in science now I have been learning every grade for at least three years now, maybe four. It's ridiculous how many times we end up having to re-learn things!

[TakeTheLeap]

As a future teacher, I can say that I disagree. While homework seems pointless and can get frustrating for all parties involved, it is crucial in more ways than one. First of all, homework makes you practice what you learn and helps you to retain that information. You cannot expect the student to come into the classroom ready to learn new information without first knowing that they understand the old, and the only way they can understand and retain the old is by homework and studying.
Also, without having homework at that early age, students' work ethic will surely be affected on a large scale. It will come as a shock to them when they suddenly hit age 12 and are bringing home 4 books each night to do homework - that would be overwhelming to do that suddenly. At that point, teachers would also have to practically train their students to do outside work and try to teach them that it is a fact of life, despite what was taught to them in elementary/early primary school. That is, if they can even retain and recall enough information to pass those early grade levels.

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by ~Emily~

As a future teacher, I can say that I disagree. While homework seems pointless and can get frustrating for all parties involved, it is crucial in more ways than one. First of all, homework makes you practice what you learn and helps you to retain that information. You cannot expect the student to come into the classroom ready to learn new information without first knowing that they understand the old, and the only way they can understand and retain the old is by homework and studying.
Also, without having homework at that early age, students' work ethic will surely be affected on a large scale. It will come as a shock to them when they suddenly hit age 12 and are bringing home 4 books each night to do homework - that would be overwhelming to do that suddenly. At that point, teachers would also have to practically train their students to do outside work and try to teach them that it is a fact of life, despite what was taught to them in elementary/early primary school. That is, if they can even retain and recall enough information to pass those early grade levels.

But how do we avoid having students do what most students do - learn the material just long enough to pass tests, and then forget it all?

[TakeTheLeap]

Originally Posted by Grizabella

But how do we avoid having students do what most students do - learn the material just long enough to pass tests, and then forget it all?

That's the thing. By practicing the information, and teaching them how it relates to real life applications, students tend to want to learn more. Also, by a teacher being enthused about teaching and making learning fun, students remember things much better. Lastly, by not focusing so much on what the students will need for a test, learning becomes a LOT easier, and not simply about cramming information in.
Show them why they need to learn it and they'll want to learn it.

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by ~Emily~

That's the thing. By practicing the information, and teaching them how it relates to real life applications, students tend to want to learn more. Also, by a teacher being enthused about teaching and making learning fun, students remember things much better. Lastly, by not focusing so much on what the students will need for a test, learning becomes a LOT easier, and not simply about cramming information in.
Show them why they need to learn it and they'll want to learn it.

But once you get beyond grade 10, very little that you're learning HAS real life applications. I'm not quite sure when I'll be using calculus and vector geometry and functions, nor do I see why it was important for me to learn in geography what a central business district and peak-value intersection are. I think if we're going to be honest with ourselves, we have to admit that our education system is pretty flawed. Of all the very important life skills I have, almost all of them I learned before high school.

[Kate]

Originally Posted by YourNightmare

But what I find interesting is your answer. You're not in primary school, you want to be a teacher, however, you're not a teacher yet. So, since you're not in primary school, what exactly makes your answer any different from the answers other people gave?

You guys are recalling what you did. Many of you aren't seeing what we as studying teachers are seeing and studying and getting degrees in. I work with children every day. And you are able to see the distinct benefits homework has on them.

Also homework in itself isn't just somethig to do, its also teaching the kids independent learning which is probably more crucial than coming to school!

Originally Posted by ~Emily~

As a future teacher, I can say that I disagree. While homework seems pointless and can get frustrating for all parties involved, it is crucial in more ways than one. First of all, homework makes you practice what you learn and helps you to retain that information. You cannot expect the student to come into the classroom ready to learn new information without first knowing that they understand the old, and the only way they can understand and retain the old is by homework and studying.
Also, without having homework at that early age, students' work ethic will surely be affected on a large scale. It will come as a shock to them when they suddenly hit age 12 and are bringing home 4 books each night to do homework - that would be overwhelming to do that suddenly. At that point, teachers would also have to practically train their students to do outside work and try to teach them that it is a fact of life, despite what was taught to them in elementary/early primary school. That is, if they can even retain and recall enough information to pass those early grade levels.

Thankyou, somebody else can see my point of veiw here!

[Jamie]

Personally, I think it's a ridiculous idea to scrap homework. Yes, most of it is pointless but it gives kids a bit of a work ethic and gest them into the mentality of needing to do homework when they get to secondary school- scrapping it will do nothing but teach kids how to be lazy.

[thebigmole]

I agree with what Emily said about if we take the homework away when they are young they will be totally overwhelmed by it when they get older. As for only learning enough to pass tests, yeah it happens but I say who cares. Here's the thing people start doing that around high school when they have to take classes they don't care about and will never use again, so for those who feel that way they pass the class to graduate and then forget everything because they never need to use it again. But those students who are interested in the class and plan to have careers in it they are the ones who care enough to learn and as long as they do, who cares what the other students do as long as they pass.

Oh and as for big fights about homework, no offense to anyone but it the fights are that big about homework there is much more wrong in that household than the kid's homework.

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by ~Emily~

As a future teacher, I can say that I disagree. While homework seems pointless and can get frustrating for all parties involved, it is crucial in more ways than one. First of all, homework makes you practice what you learn and helps you to retain that information. You cannot expect the student to come into the classroom ready to learn new information without first knowing that they understand the old, and the only way they can understand and retain the old is by homework and studying.
Also, without having homework at that early age, students' work ethic will surely be affected on a large scale. It will come as a shock to them when they suddenly hit age 12 and are bringing home 4 books each night to do homework - that would be overwhelming to do that suddenly. At that point, teachers would also have to practically train their students to do outside work and try to teach them that it is a fact of life, despite what was taught to them in elementary/early primary school. That is, if they can even retain and recall enough information to pass those early grade levels.

None of the information for me, my brother, my sister, or any of my friends or peers is retained. Ask me what I did in seventh grade science? I can't tell you. Neither can anyone else in my school. Ask me about electricity, which I spend a whole year learning about, I can tell you nothing even though I passed with an A. Same with many of my peers. In fifth grade, we had homework every night to learn the capitals of the states. I learned them all, as did most of my peers. None of us remember even half of them. It's pointless. If the homework actually did what you all are assuming it does, then that would be great. Fact is, it doesn't.

Originally Posted by ~Emily~

That's the thing. By practicing the information, and teaching them how it relates to real life applications, students tend to want to learn more. Also, by a teacher being enthused about teaching and making learning fun, students remember things much better. Lastly, by not focusing so much on what the students will need for a test, learning becomes a LOT easier, and not simply about cramming information in.
Show them why they need to learn it and they'll want to learn it.

All our homework is just to pass the test? And if a teacher is enthusiastic, how does that help homework at home? Unless the teachers are coming home with the students... The teacher can only make learning fun in the classroom.

Originally Posted by Kate

You guys are recalling what you did. Many of you aren't seeing what we as studying teachers are seeing and studying and getting degrees in. I work with children every day. And you are able to see the distinct benefits homework has on them.

Also homework in itself isn't just somethig to do, its also teaching the kids independent learning which is probably more crucial than coming to school!

Actually, that's quite ironic. I've taken three years of a college level early child development class and done many research projects about how homework is not beneficial in the long-run.

Originally Posted by Jamie

Personally, I think it's a ridiculous idea to scrap homework. Yes, most of it is pointless but it gives kids a bit of a work ethic and gest them into the mentality of needing to do homework when they get to secondary school- scrapping it will do nothing but teach kids how to be lazy.

That's a fair point. But the work ethic should come in at school. When you have a job, you work at the work-place. And you don't bring home work. If you do, you're probably going above and beyond what you need to be doing, and it's not considered mentally healthy to do so. My dad used to not be able to take home work because the management found that when people took home work, there were more errors because in life there should be a difference between home and work. If you're homeschooled/ working from home, that's another matter.

Originally Posted by thebigmole

But those students who are interested in the class and plan to have careers in it they are the ones who care enough to learn and as long as they do, who cares what the other students do as long as they pass.

Oh and as for big fights about homework, no offense to anyone but it the fights are that big about homework there is much more wrong in that household than the kid's homework.

First off, thank you so much for identifying that my family is f*cked up. =) But if you take a look at many other households, it's extremely rare to find a household that there are not any huge fights about homework. Maybe it's different where you live, but that's not the case here.

Second, aren't we talking about benefiting all the students? If we're only benefiting a few, then the whole point of school has changed. You're basically saying that if you don't want to be taught, kids shouldn't have to come to school, which I entirely disagree with.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Gidig

That's a fair point. But the work ethic should come in at school. When you have a job, you work at the work-place. And you don't bring home work. If you do, you're probably going above and beyond what you need to be doing, and it's not considered mentally healthy to do so. My dad used to not be able to take home work because the management found that when people took home work, there were more errors because in life there should be a difference between home and work. If you're homeschooled/ working from home, that's another matter.

It should come from school and in a perfect world it would- but it's purely not that simple. I can understand the parallel with work- but it's not always that simple. A lot of jobs do require you to work at home regardless. I think there does need to be a difference between home and school, but is a small bit of homework that takes 30 minutes is not out of the question. I also think it's important to reinforce things- primary school (not sure what the american comparison is) is generally a place for fun and kids don't really focus that much on the work and this is where they pick up key skills, such as addition and spelling. They *have* to learn these things to be successful and study after study will show that the best way to remember things, is through reinforcement- and one bit of homework a week can make all the difference.

On a seperate note, I know as I've spent hte last 6 years (and am still in) the British School System- when I was in Year 7 (which is when under this, homework would then begin), my classmates protested against homework and avoided it at every chance because they didn't want to do it. If it's not there before, they are going to resist even more.

[Care-o-Bear]

Originally Posted by Gidig

But if you take a look at many other households, it's extremely rare to find a household that there are not any huge fights about homework. Maybe it's different where you live, but that's not the case here.

Agreed. I have a very loving household, but I remember many big arguements over homework between my parents and myself or even more often my parents and my little brother. There was yelling, crying, all that. It's very normal. Not to say that I think homework should be eliminated, but I don't think there's anything unusual or wrong about a family just because they have big fights over homework.

[thebigmole]

Originally Posted by Gidig

Second, aren't we talking about benefiting all the students? If we're only benefiting a few, then the whole point of school has changed. You're basically saying that if you don't want to be taught, kids shouldn't have to come to school, which I entirely disagree with.

That's not what I'm saying. In high school it gets to a point where we are required to take classes that not all of us need for our careers. The kids who actually bother to remember what they learn in those classes are the ones who plan to use that information later in life. For those who don't plan to what's wrong with them doing enough to pass the class, even if the information doesn't stick.

[Lorelei]

I think homework is important for review of the basics. As much as I hate to admit it, all the spelling, grammar, and basic arithmetic worksheets I did when I was younger have helped a lot.

I say there should be more homework for younger kids and limited homework for teens. Little kids have the energy for it. Let them use it productively. Whereas teens need more sleep and rest to function properly. The system we have set up already doesn't make much sense, and banning homework for young kids will just make it harder for them when they're older.

Reinforce the basics when the kid is young, and it will stick with them longer. It'll make higher thinking easier for them, because they won't still be stuck on the stuff they should have been learning when they were younger.

[Grizabella]

Originally Posted by thebigmole

That's not what I'm saying. In high school it gets to a point where we are required to take classes that not all of us need for our careers. The kids who actually bother to remember what they learn in those classes are the ones who plan to use that information later in life. For those who don't plan to what's wrong with them doing enough to pass the class, even if the information doesn't stick.

I would say the issue there is that our education system makes us take pointless classes which we don't need. Even in university, as an arts major, I have to take at least one class that falls under the Faculty of Science. Why? I've chosen my career. Science is important, that's undeniable, but advanced science courses aren't useful to me, because I have absolutely no intention of pursuing studies in sciences. I wish I could focus on the courses I actually need for my degree and career, but instead I have to waste hours learning about chemistry or biology or calculus, none of which I'm ever going to use.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by Kate

You guys are recalling what you did. Many of you aren't seeing what we as studying teachers are seeing and studying and getting degrees in. I work with children every day. And you are able to see the distinct benefits homework has on them.

Also homework in itself isn't just somethig to do, its also teaching the kids independent learning which is probably more crucial than coming to school!

I agree, it is teaching them independent learning as well as self-responsibility.

That's wonderful but you didn't even address my question but rather just ramble a bit and say the same thing. So, please answer my question this time:

But what I find interesting is your answer. You're not in primary school, you want to be a teacher, however, you're not a teacher yet. So, since you're not in primary school, what exactly makes your answer any different from the answers other people gave?

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by Jamie

A lot of jobs do require you to work at home regardless. I think there does need to be a difference between home and school, but is a small bit of homework that takes 30 minutes is not out of the question. I also think it's important to reinforce things- primary school (not sure what the american comparison is) is generally a place for fun and kids don't really focus that much on the work and this is where they pick up key skills, such as addition and spelling. They *have* to learn these things to be successful and study after study will show that the best way to remember things, is through reinforcement- and one bit of homework a week can make all the difference.

A few things, first, I'm not sure of many jobs that require you to work at home? Unless it's an entire stay at home job, but usually you're provided with an office that you're able to go into to work, and aren't required to take work home.

Another thing is.. WHOA! Did you only get thirty minutes of homework a week? And have you reviewed the learning curriculum for primary schools? [Here they're elementary schools] My brother and sister probably get an average of 3 or 4 hours of homework a week, not including the time fighting them to make them do it. If it was 30 minutes once a week, I have to agree that'd be an entirely different story. And I had a class working as an elementary school teacher aid for a while, and they don't do all the crafts, let's sit around and play kind of stuff. That's actually been a complaint around here for a while. They go to school and work all day besides recess which is rather short compared to a child's attention span and the amount of work they're doing in class.

Originally Posted by thebigmole

That's not what I'm saying. In high school it gets to a point where we are required to take classes that not all of us need for our careers. The kids who actually bother to remember what they learn in those classes are the ones who plan to use that information later in life. For those who don't plan to what's wrong with them doing enough to pass the class, even if the information doesn't stick.

What's wrong with them doing just enough to pass the class? It's wasting their time, the teachers time, the school's time, and money. We're also not talking about high school classes, we're talking about kids under 11.

And just to regard high school, we're mostly required like two years of science, four years of english and for the most part you can pick the classes you want from within those categories, which is how I think it should be.
I think the system in the UK is entirely different too within the secondary schools?

[Blackwing]

If I did any paperwork from my job at home I would get fired.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Gidig

A few things, first, I'm not sure of many jobs that require you to work at home? Unless it's an entire stay at home job, but usually you're provided with an office that you're able to go into to work, and aren't required to take work home.

I may be wrong, but I day say anything in civil service or anything buisness like may at least require you to review documents at home, or maybe take work home with them- my mum runs a entire floor of a shop and she does need to do work at home- check figures add up, performance reviews etc etc because it's simply not possible to fit it in with the entire day. I'm not saying a large majority of jobs do, but a fair few of them do.

Another thing is.. WHOA! Did you only get thirty minutes of homework a week? And have you reviewed the learning curriculum for primary schools? [Here they're elementary schools] My brother and sister probably get an average of 3 or 4 hours of homework a week, not including the time fighting them to make them do it. If it was 30 minutes once a week, I have to agree that'd be an entirely different story. And I had a class working as an elementary school teacher aid for a while, and they don't do all the crafts, let's sit around and play kind of stuff. That's actually been a complaint around here for a while. They go to school and work all day besides recess which is rather short compared to a child's attention span and the amount of work they're doing in class.

Admittedly 30mins was more at very early years, but in Year 6 the most it would take was 2hrs and that was for like, big projects. (Of course this is just my school) I agree, 3-4hrs is ridiculous though. it shouldn't be that much, and it shouldn't be abolished entirely.

I think the system in the UK is entirely different too within the secondary schools?

Secondary Schools for me were/are Year 7-11 Compuslory.

Pre GCSE you're forced to do One language, Maths, Science, English, History so forth.

At GCSE I was forced to do English, Maths, Science (With a choice to take them together or seperatly as Bio/Chem/Phys), IT and one language. It was then free choice to pick another 5-7 subjects (depending on how many you could fit in.)

Then the optional Sixth Form where you pick everything you take. Usually 4 subjects and you drop one eventually.

(hope that helps.)

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I may be wrong, but I day say anything in civil service or anything buisness like may at least require you to review documents at home, or maybe take work home with them- my mum runs a entire floor of a shop and she does need to do work at home- check figures add up, performance reviews etc etc because it's simply not possible to fit it in with the entire day. I'm not saying a large majority of jobs do, but a fair few of them do.

Meh. But like if your mom owns the floor, she could stay there and do it. She has the option, even if for some reason it doesn't work for her. If that makes sense?

Admittedly 30mins was more at very early years, but in Year 6 the most it would take was 2hrs and that was for like, big projects. (Of course this is just my school) I agree, 3-4hrs is ridiculous though. it shouldn't be that much, and it shouldn't be abolished entirely.

Well yes, and we're talking about the early years, yes? I really don't see the point of it though. It's meant to help but all I find is it causes hassle. Plus that's why you don't homeschool your kids.. so you don't have to make them work and help them through coursework and stuff.

Secondary Schools for me were/are Year 7-11 Compuslory.

Pre GCSE you're forced to do One language, Maths, Science, English, History so forth.

At GCSE I was forced to do English, Maths, Science (With a choice to take them together or seperatly as Bio/Chem/Phys), IT and one language. It was then free choice to pick another 5-7 subjects (depending on how many you could fit in.)

Then the optional Sixth Form where you pick everything you take. Usually 4 subjects and you drop one eventually.

(hope that helps.)

Yeah that helps for sure. Gracias.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Gidig

Meh. But like if your mom owns the floor, she could stay there and do it. She has the option, even if for some reason it doesn't work for her. If that makes sense?

No, she can't. During the day she is required to work on the floor whether it be helping people find a product, or taking deliveries or even working on the tills and the whole store manager doesn't allow employees to stay after closing hours except on special occassions (i.e Inventory.)

Well yes, and we're talking about the early years, yes? I really don't see the point of it though. It's meant to help but all I find is it causes hassle. Plus that's why you don't homeschool your kids.. so you don't have to make them work and help them through coursework and stuff.

As I've said- the key thing for homework in my mind, should to be reinforce what they have learnt during the day- otherwise they could very easily forget it and to prepare them for what's ahead.

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by Jamie

No, she can't. During the day she is required to work on the floor whether it be helping people find a product, or taking deliveries or even working on the tills and the whole store manager doesn't allow employees to stay after closing hours except on special occassions (i.e Inventory.)

I thought you said your mom owned the floor? Which.. wouldn't that put her above the store manager? O.o

As I've said- the key thing for homework in my mind, should to be reinforce what they have learnt during the day- otherwise they could very easily forget it and to prepare them for what's ahead.

I just don't see how making kids do something, that it's quite obvious majority of them are just going to do to get done, meaning copy someone else's, convince their parents to give them the answers [in those insanely sly kids ways] or even just do stuff on a calculator/online. That's not really reinforcing what they've learned?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Gidig

I thought you said your mom owned the floor? Which.. wouldn't that put her above the store manager? O.o

I said she runs the floor, not owns it. In the sense she would be the floor manager, so below the store manager.

I just don't see how making kids do something, that it's quite obvious majority of them are just going to do to get done, meaning copy someone else's, convince their parents to give them the answers [in those insanely sly kids ways] or even just do stuff on a calculator/online. That's not really reinforcing what they've learned?

Because that's not how it works for everyone? And if copying nullifies homework, why not nullify schoolwork too, as kids copy all the time. I'm not being funny, but the whole of school until you're aiming for a specific career is "just getting it done to get it done." Besides, they are still doing the homework and even if they hate it they reinforce how it's done. Copiers will see how to get the right answer too, in some cases.

[Gidig]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I said she runs the floor, not owns it. In the sense she would be the floor manager, so below the store manager.

Ah sorry, that is my mistake with wording. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to force someone to do work at home if it's not in the agreement or some crap like that?


Because that's not how it works for everyone? And if copying nullifies homework, why not nullify schoolwork too, as kids copy all the time. I'm not being funny, but the whole of school until you're aiming for a specific career is "just getting it done to get it done." Besides, they are still doing the homework and even if they hate it they reinforce how it's done. Copiers will see how to get the right answer too, in some cases.

That's how it works for majority of children? Schoolwork is entirely different than homework. Schoolwork is first practicing something you have learned with the help of a teacher, and the teacher is supposed to watch you to make sure you don't copy? They even still watch us sometimes in High School for copying? And you should be getting it done to learn the material. How is copying 'reinforcing' how it's done? I'd actually like to do a study about how many people copy homework... I think you gave me an idea for my sociology project
Anyway if you're copying normally you're not actually looking at the content.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Gidig

That's how it works for majority of children? Schoolwork is entirely different than homework. Schoolwork is first practicing something you have learned with the help of a teacher, and the teacher is supposed to watch you to make sure you don't copy? They even still watch us sometimes in High School for copying? And you should be getting it done to learn the material. How is copying 'reinforcing' how it's done? I'd actually like to do a study about how many people copy homework... I think you gave me an idea for my sociology project
Anyway if you're copying normally you're not actually looking at the content.

The only difference is the help of the teacher- and I see homework as the last link of seeing if they can do it themselves without assistance, to see how well they have grasped and learnt the material. Copying can reinforce, but not always- some people get stuck and just copy the answer, but in thing like Maths, they may copy down the methodology and absorb it that way.