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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
R.K. Offline
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Exclamation Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 5th 2009, 11:50 PM

In a Portuguese paper (LINK HERE; can anyone translate well?) there was some talk about how apparently there is some planning in now suing the girl’s mother for homicide for allowing abortion I guess, but don’t quote me on this yet, I still need a good translation of that article.


Quote:
A Brazilian archbishop says all those who helped a child rape victim secure an abortion are to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.
Quote:

The girl, aged nine, who lives in the north-eastern state of Pernambuco, became pregnant with twins.
It is alleged that she had been sexually assaulted over a number of years by her stepfather.
The excommunication applies to the child's mother and the doctors involved in the procedure[so… not the sick-bastard of the step father?]
The pregnancy was terminated on Wednesday.
Abortion is only permitted in Brazil in cases of rape and where the mother's life is at risk and doctors say the girl's case met both these conditions.
Police believe that the girl at the centre of the case had been sexually abused by her step-father since she was six years old.
The fact that she was pregnant with twins was only discovered after she was taken to hospital in Pernambuco complaining of stomach pains.
Her stepfather was arrested last week, allegedly as he tried to escape to another region of the country.
He is also suspected of abusing the girl's physically handicapped older sister who is now 14.


Intervention bid
The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday.
Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated.
The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.
He said the excommunication would not apply to the child because of her age, but would affect all those who ensured the abortion was carried out. [so… does that mean they are going to excommunicate everyone in the court system & those that set up their laws?]
However, doctors at the hospital said they had to take account of the welfare of the girl, and that she was so small that her uterus did not have the ability to contain one child let alone two.

Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound girl.
"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.
But Marcio Miranda, a lawyer for the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife in northeastern Brazil, said the girl should have carried the twins to term and had a cesarean section.
"It's the law of God: Do not kill. We consider this murder," Miranda said in comments reported by O Globo.

Brazil is home to more Catholics than any other nation.While the action of the Church in opposing an abortion for a young rape victim is not unprecedented, it has attracted criticism from women's rights groups in Brazil.


UPDATE: THE STORY CONTINUES

Vatican strikes again!

Quote:
Vatican backs abortion row bishop
Cardinal Re said the attack on Brazil's Catholic Church was unjustified.
A senior Vatican cleric has defended the excommunication in Brazil of the mother and doctors of a young girl who had an abortion with their help.

"Life must always be protected [apparently not the little girl's life], the attack on the Brazilian Church is unjustified."
Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, himself a Catholic, said on Friday that he regretted what he described as the cleric's deeply conservative attitude [even the President thinks it's wrong...].
"The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old," he said.

Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7930380.stm

UPDATE (sort of...)

Quote:
The case has brought to light other instances of young girls being raped and impregnated by family members, especially in the poorer northeastern region.

The number of legal abortions of girls ages 10 to 14 more than doubled last year to 49, up from 22 in 2007, the Ministry of Health reported. That was out of 3,050 legal abortions performed last year in a country of more than 190 million. But the vast majority of Brazil’s abortions are not legal. The Ministry of Health estimates about one million unsafe or clandestine abortions every year.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/world/americas/28brazil.html?_r=2&hp



Last edited by R.K.; March 28th 2009 at 11:38 PM.
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 5th 2009, 11:54 PM

It doesn't surprise me that the church would want to excommunicate them. That doesn't mean that I agree with it though. I feel so horrible for the poor girl.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 5th 2009, 11:57 PM

Are you freaking kidding me? Somehow, the church doesn't surprise me. But that is absolutely horrible.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 12:04 AM

Wait sue the mother what about the doctor who did the abortion.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGE View Post
Wait sue the mother what about the doctor who did the abortion.
That's why I'm saying don't quote me on that point yet. I'm still looking for an English version.

Here's the Portuguese version: http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/...IDA+AO+MP.html

If anyone could give a good translation that would be nice.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 12:54 AM

Wow.... talk about being unsympathetic... some people need to learn the meaning of empathy



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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 01:01 AM

"Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law."

That guy is an idiot considering the fact that a lot of the laws in the Bible are f@cked up... If that was true then they better support killing people for breaking sabbath. I have as much respect for him as for Osama Bin Laden.
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 03:11 AM

This is why I feel religion needs to be accepted in moderation. That's freaking ridiculous, and that you'd put the small child's life at risk for that? You'd end up killing two 'people' according to them, rather then their 'one'.



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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 03:15 AM

Screw moderation, religion is just plain backwards!

Perhaps they should pretend their relatives arrived via ODESSA to safeguard their status in the church
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 08:20 PM

If I had any respect left for the Catholic Church, it's gone now. That's just disgusting. The leaders of the Church should be ashamed of themselves, trying to force a nine year old girl to carry twins conceived from abuse to term.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 08:58 PM

Okay, so what would they even sue her mother for? The girl was raped, and they're mad because a nine year old didn't want to give birth?

I hate religiously fanatic idiots.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 09:01 PM

This doesn't surprise me, it's not the first time a church has done something stupid and it won't be the last. I just feel sorry for that poor girl :[


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella View Post
If I had any respect left for the Catholic Church, it's gone now. That's just disgusting. The leaders of the Church should be ashamed of themselves, trying to force a nine year old girl to carry twins conceived from abuse to term.
Basically, my views... Granted, I didn't have any respect to begin with.




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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 09:17 PM

I thought the Catholic faith was against abortion and not for it.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 09:52 PM

Hi Everyone!!

I hope you're having a great day!!

This is yet another reason WHY I refer to myself as 'Christian - NON RELIGIOUS'. Being excommunicated from the Catholic church would be - I'm sure - very upsetting [To say the least] for most Catholics - but being kicked out of ANY church - any man-made religion [Catholic or otherwise] is NOT the same as being kicked out of the family of GOD. Those who believe in God and who have accepted Jesus as the Son of God and as their Savior - are a part of GOD'S family - GOD's CHURCH. What I find most upsetting about stories like this is that people - even those who have no belief in God at all - allow the 'religious' to represent God TO them. Suddenly GOD is an ass because of what some MEN have said or done. I say - be careful. Never allow MAN to influence you THAT much - especially when it comes to whether or not you have a belief in God.

As for that poor girl - she has a right to defend her LIFE against anyone or anything. And two 'people' [two 'babies' - two 'fetuses' - two 'whatever you choose to call them] were threatening her life. As I see it - she had right to remove that threat.

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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:
Suddenly GOD is an ass because of what some MEN have said or done.
If the believers/followers are not the representatives of God, WHO/WHAT is? Because He certainly has been a bit on the shy side of revealing himself for the past thousand of years...


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 10:32 PM

You think that they would fallow their own laws and leave the rest of the world ALONE. Always freaking out over what they're neighbors up to when they're own yard need the work.
hypocrites.
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 10:39 PM

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Originally Posted by R.K. View Post
If the believers/followers are not the representatives of God, WHO/WHAT is? Because He certainly has been a bit on the shy side of revealing himself for the past thousand of years...
Man invented God in order to suit his own needs and keep the proletariat in line. Therefore man is to blame. Or so my opinion goes
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 10:55 PM

OMG, that article's ridiculous. Expecting a nine year old to give birth to twins?? Like the article said, she's not physically old enough to do that. Especially a rape victim, and especially a really young one ... sometimes i wonder what the world's coming to *cry*




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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.K. View Post
If the believers/followers are not the representatives of God, WHO/WHAT is? Because He certainly has been a bit on the shy side of revealing himself for the past thousand of years...
Hi R.K.!!

I hope you're OK.

You have be far more discerning than that!! Do you believe everything 'man' tells you? Besides - if you really want to know God - you can read the Bible FOR YOURSELF!! And THEN decide for yourself what you believe. Don't rely on 'man' or 'religion' to read it for you and then TELL YOU what THEY think it means. I understand what you're saying - but how else do you expect God to reveal Himself to you? It should be noted that I didn't become a Christian because of the Christians I was surrounded by when I was growing up. I became a Christian IN SPITE of the Christians I was surrounded by while growing up. Even as a child I couldn't help but notice the glaring hypocrisy with many of my 'Christian' relatives - and that included my United Church of Canada Minister grandfather.

The Bible tells us that there is no one between us and God other than Jesus. We don't require the pre-approval of 'man' or 'religion' in order to become part of God's family.

Whether or not you chose to believe that is up to you. But don't ever allow 'man' OR 'religion' to make that choice for you. Think for yourself.

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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 11:03 PM

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Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Hi R.K.!!

I hope you're OK.

You have be far more discerning than that!! Do you believe everything 'man' tells you? Besides - if you really want to know God - you can read the Bible FOR YOURSELF!! And THEN decide for yourself what you believe. Don't rely on 'man' or 'religion' to read it for you and then TELL YOU what THEY think it means. I understand what you're saying - but how else do you expect God to reveal Himself to you? It should be noted that I didn't become a Christian because of the Christians I was surrounded by when I was growing up.

The Bible tells us that there is no one between us and God other than Jesus. We don't require the pre-approval of 'man' or 'religion' in order to become part of God's family.
The Bible was written by man, whether or not it is the word of God is open to interpretation. As is common knowledge many things can get lost in translation from the original content to translating it into English which distorts meanings (in any medium).

And what about recommunication into the church? If one was excommunicated then it would surely require pre-approval? Also, since the church preaches forgiveness it would have to give said person another chance.

I'd expect God to reveal himself to me like the grass does, or the Coriolis Effect does, unless it can be scientifically proven and it repeatable and reproducible then it does not exist in my opinion
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 6th 2009, 11:48 PM

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Originally Posted by niente_ View Post
OMG, that article's ridiculous. Expecting a nine year old to give birth to twins?? Like the article said, she's not physically old enough to do that. Especially a rape victim, and especially a really young one ... sometimes i wonder what the world's coming to *cry*
Huh? It's not something it's "coming to", it's always been like that for the most part, & just now starting to snap out.

Quote:
Man invented God in order to suit his own needs and keep the proletariat in line. Therefore man is to blame. Or so my opinion goes

I was looking more from the perspective "if God would exist" or at least giving that possibility a chance.

Quote:
I hope you're OK.

On a side note, it's really annoying when you write these, along with "how are you"s... Just my opinion.

Quote:
And THEN decide for yourself what you believe.
Are you suggesting picking & choosing of the holy inspired word of God?
+ the Bible WAS written by man + our current versions WERE translated by man.

Quote:
but how else do you expect God to reveal Himself to you?
Sorry, I probably missing something. What was the 1st way of him revealing himself?

What it seems to me, you are advocating your own brand of Christianity & seem, while those people are doing the same; you claim we don't need the "community" part, while they do. It's all the same to me, yours is just more liberal, individualistic approach to it.

Btw, I'm pretty sure there was a verse in the Bible something about knowing them by their fruit (can't find direct verse now), both you & those people have the same "roots" so to say... I'd say one tree turned out pretty rotten. Now I'm not quite sure which one, since if you take an absolute morality approach, those guys are the right ones (at least with their harsh stances... sort of)


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 7th 2009, 12:28 AM

Hi R.K!!

I HOPE YOU'RE OK.

What scared you R.K?

The suggestion that you read the Bible for yourself?!

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March 7th 2009, 12:34 AM

that is horrible. the circumstances around this are horrible. the law is thou shall not kill and if the pregnancy was allowed to progress it would have been the same as murdering the girl and be seen as neglect on the mothers part. this just reminds me why i'm not catholic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidig View Post
This is why I feel religion needs to be accepted in moderation. That's freaking ridiculous, and that you'd put the small child's life at risk for that? You'd end up killing two 'people' according to them, rather then their 'one'.
in all likely hood it would kill all 3...


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 7th 2009, 12:52 AM

The bible or state laws?


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 7th 2009, 01:11 PM

That was ridiculous. But niente basically summed up for me how I feel about it... it's wrong on so many levels!! (NOT the abortion part. That was the right decision.)
-She was raped. She's been abused for three years, by her step-father... maybe I just missed this in the article, but what's happening to him?? Hopefully he's getting punished somehow!
-She's NINE. You can't seriously expect a nine-year-old to become a mother to TWINS. For one thing, her body completely couldn't support it, and, for another, how could a nine-year-old be a parent?? There are plenty of middle-aged folks who are horrible parents to their children. What do you do when you're a child yourself?

Dude, this flips me out. At least it's over with; the abortion's happened, so it doesn't have to be a debate anymore. (Ha. Irony. As if abortion wasn't a debate..)


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 02:50 AM

I'd like to say "wow I can't believe that." But I can. Which probably just makes it all worse.



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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
I'd like to say "wow I can't believe that." But I can. Which probably just makes it all worse.
It's sickeningly plausible
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 03:14 AM

I dont really need to say it because everyone before me already has, but the Christian church is seriously screwed up. I feel so bad for the girl and I hope she is doing okay now, mentally and physically

If I was her mother or doctor, I would laugh in their face as they told me I was excommunicated from the Church and I'd tell them where to stick their stupid and ridiculous beliefs. Which is why I could never be Christian ^_^


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 03:59 AM

And the church strikes again. No surprise here at all. This is a reason why religious nonsense like this should be abolished. It does no good at all.
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 04:13 AM

They probably want controversy to surround them.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 09:34 AM

This is so incredibly disturbing. How can you expect a nine year old girl to have one baby, let alone two? There is no way that's healthy for her - and how on earth is her body going to be able to take care of her and two others? Even if she would've followed through with the pregnancy, I really doubt they would have been born healthy anyways.

They laid out the laws. The pregnancy was the product of rape, and her life was in danger - they seriously want to break their own rules and possibly kill a nine year old girl to protect two fetuses that may never actually be born healthy? That's completely disgusting.
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 11:29 AM

but if they let her go through with it, she could've died, which would've been basically "murdering" her if they made her go through with the pregnancy, i'm not entirley sure they think for themselves anymore.
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 01:25 PM

Ugh. What's terrible is that I half expected to scroll down and read, "she was stoned to death by an angry mob of church officials."

If I was her, I'd see the excommunication as a blessing. Maybe she'll grow up learning how to (gasp) think for herself!


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 01:35 PM

Oh dear, this is one case. I realize it's tragic, but I think it's pertinent to also realize that many other religions have extraordinarily dogmatic custom too...it's just what a certain group of people believe in and I'm fine with that.

There is a religion created solely from Kurt Vonnagut's book, Cat's Cradle. Now, I'm not entirely familiar with it, but I doubt I would follow the majority of its customs. It stands more as an analogy than a moot argument in itself...

Simply, just because this is wrong by Western standards/morals does not make it wrong across the board. Different people have different belief systems, that's all. No need to attack either/or as either/or aren't decidedly correct or entirely wrong (lo and behold the gray areas otherwise known as "social sciences"?).

Thus, I don't know if it's advantageous to really go at the Catholic church (or even Christian faith) for something that a small group of its followers take action in for one particular case.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergg View Post
Simply, just because this is wrong by Western standards/morals does not make it wrong across the board. Different people have different belief systems, that's all. No need to attack either/or as either/or aren't decidedly correct or entirely wrong (lo and behold the gray areas otherwise known as "social sciences"?).
Rape is wrong. Ende.

When will Catholics learn that they don't need more recruits? There haven't been holy wars involving them for centuries. The only reason to oppose all abortion is if you need more people to join the cause
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 04:09 PM

The poor girl. The church is so stupid.


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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 10th 2009, 04:42 PM

The catholic church thinks they're in charge of the world.
Honestly... they need to shut the hell up.





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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 11th 2009, 06:06 PM

OMG! The poor girl! I can't believe anyone in their right mind would even consider making her go through with the pregnancy.
   
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Re: Church outraged over 9 year old rape victim having abortion - March 11th 2009, 10:01 PM

I believe that if Jesus really did exist, he was a social rebel. That I agree with.
Annnd then the Church came in and decided to control people. Why? I don't know. But I certainly do not want to be a part of such an institution.

What happened to that girl.. that's completely awful. Expecting a 9 year old girl to give birth. That's just so horrible.


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