Belief in God without Religion?

[MadPoet]

I've been thinking for awhile, that my doubts in God may not be doubts in God, but just rejection of the Christian faith in general, if that makes sense. My question, though, is can you believe in the Christian God but not be a Christian? For instance, I do not believe people who commit suicide go to Hell (which is a Christian belief) instead, I'm leaning towards believing they are simply immediately reincarnated, whereas those who do not commit suicide have the choice to be reincarnated or continue on to Heaven. I guess you could say that I'm kind of following my own beliefs, but they're not really common beliefs of the Christian Faith.

Does God mind if you mix and match beliefs? Do you have to part of a certain Religion? If you believe in the Christian God that doesn't made you a definite Christian, does it? I want to and always will believe in God, but I despise the Christian faith. Does that make any sense?

So anyway, I just want some input on all of this crap, so I figured, TH should be the perfect place for input on something like this.

[Whaaatever]

I'm pretty sure some devouts would find your beliefs horrid. Personally, you're better off than the most. God is what you make of him, in my eyes. A necessity for some, and your beliefs are far more admirable than most. All I can say is Thank You.

[Lisa111]

I've heard of something similar to that, where if someone doesn't know Jesus, say they're a stillborn infant or die as a small child, they get reincarnated so they can experience a full life. Or, there's a theory where if one isn't worthy of heaven, they continue to get reincarnated until they are worthy, and there are different stages of heaven. I think that one's a total rip off of Buddhist beliefs, but whatever.

I don't think any Christian, or anyone of any faith, can dictate what the Bible (or other doctrine) actually says because there are so many ways to interpret it. Or you can just follow Serendipity's words of wisdom from Dogma: "It's not about who's right or wrong. No denomination's nailed it yet, and they never will because they're all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith."

[anishift]

I'm a little bit like you. I mean I don't believe exactly what you do, but I'm not sure that I believe in everything the average Christian church is trying to tell people. It's understandable and I think that your relationship with God himself is much more important to him than your relationship with the church. Sometimes, it's best to just follow what you believe in and you don't necessarily have to go to a church or subscribe to one religion to have a relationship with God. It's better that you live by what you truly believe in than follow a church whose beliefs you don't share.

[Annoni]

Firstly, what about Christianity do you not like?
Second, yes God minds very much if you mix and match beliefs. Do you know why?
The world is stuck under this childish notion that WE define who our God is. We control Him, and we can alter reality with our beliefs. If we believe reincarnation, there will be reincarnation.
Imagine the disappointment you would have when you end up Hell when you die.

God defines US - We are made in His image. It's in Genesis 1:27, something you can't miss if you start from the beginning of the Bible.
Gensis 1:27 :: "So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

He created us, therefore He has dominion over us. We did not create Him, therefore we do not control Him. Making your own beliefs to Him could be considered blasphemous. It's insulting to Him. Do you know why?
Colossians 1:16 :: For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

If you swap beliefs around, you are saying what He has created for you is not good enough. It is an insult to His glory, for everything was made for His glory the way it is.

Clear? I'm sorry if it's hard to understand.

Also know this; God does not want religion. He wants a relationship with you, and He will have a relationship with every human heart that asks of it.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Amanda!!

I hope you're having a dandy day.

What you're saying certainly does make sense - but I have to wonder - is it Christians [And how they have expressed their faith] you have a problem with [Generally speaking] or Christ? If you believe that Jesus is the 'Son of God' and that He died on the cross for your sins - AND you accept the 'gift' of forgiveness that comes from what He did on the Cross - then you are - by definition - a 'Christian'. If you do not believe that - then [Again - by defintiion] you are NOT a 'Christian'.

In my profile - I list my faith as 'Christian - NON RELIGIOUS'. I believe very much in God and Jesus, etc., but I refuse to believe that one must subscribe to a man-made 'religion' [i.e. 'Baptist, Catholic, or whatever] in order to BE a Christian. As I see it and believe it - the only one between ME and GOD is JESUS. The Bible tells us to communicate with God [pray] in Jesus' Name. I do NOT have to be approved of by 'MAN' in order to be approved of by GOD. Simply accepting Christ and what He did for me MAKES me approved of by GOD. That's the gift.

That all said...... as a Christian - I don't believe those who commit suicide necessarily go to 'Hell'. And I don't know how anyone dare to make that presumption. The only one who has any right to make that decision is God Himself. And when it comes to Hell - I believe [And can back up that belief scripturally] that there is no such thing as a place of never ending torment. People who - in the end - still reject God - will eventually be annihilated. "Hell' - and all who are in it - will be thrown into the 'Lake of Fire' where it [and all who are in it] will absolutely, completely disappear.

There are three words that far too many people of 'faith' [And that includes all faiths] fail to use. And this is something that has bothered me all of my life. And those three words are... "I DON'T KNOW!" If more people would simply admit that they do NOT know everything and they do NOT understand everything - the more credibility they would have. Instead - they feel it's better to say SOMETHING than to say "I don't know'. As if admitting ignorance of something is shameful. It's NOT. What's shameful is lying to people -and leading them down a path that might very well move them further away from God. I can't imagine that God would be happy with anyone who is responsible for doing that to people.

I think it's very important for any person who struggles with their faith and who is trying to make some sense of all they have heard and read [And that includes ME] to appreciate the fact that much of what MAN has said about GOD just might be a LIE. [Or at least a truth so stretched out of shape that it is no longer recognizable as the truth] And that's where I am with MY faith. I believe in God and Jesus, etc., but don't for second assume that means I know all there is to know OR that I'm comfortable with everything I've read in the Bible. [Or heard from many of my fellow 'Christians'] Many parts of the Bible seem absolutely awful and horribly unfair and unjust. But I'm not going to toss my faith in God aside because I can't make sense of something. What I'm going to do is give God the benefit of the doubt and work my way towards understanding. And it hasn't been easy. And it's still not easy. And I still don't understand all of is. [Or even a lot of it] On top of all of that - I'm often very angry with God and very frustrated. But I still believe. As I'm working my way through that anger - I often ask myself, "What is coming from GOD - and what is coming from MAN?!" And more often then not - my anger at GOD - is really not about GOD at all. It's about my DAD.

Having faith is a struggle. God Himself recognizes this by letting us know that if someone's faith was a big as a mustard seed - he/she could move mountains. When was the last time YOU saw a person move a mountain?! lol

Just keep searching for the truth.

GREAT BIG HUG
Craig!!

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by Annoni

Firstly, what about Christianity do you not like?
Second, yes God minds very much if you mix and match beliefs. Do you know why?
The world is stuck under this childish notion that WE define who our God is. We control Him, and we can alter reality with our beliefs. If we believe reincarnation, there will be reincarnation.
Imagine the disappointment you would have when you end up Hell when you die.

God defines US - We are made in His image. It's in Genesis 1:27, something you can't miss if you start from the beginning of the Bible.
Gensis 1:27 :: "So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

He created us, therefore He has dominion over us. We did not create Him, therefore we do not control Him. Making your own beliefs to Him could be considered blasphemous. It's insulting to Him. Do you know why?
Colossians 1:16 :: For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

If you swap beliefs around, you are saying what He has created for you is not good enough. It is an insult to His glory, for everything was made for His glory the way it is.

Clear? I'm sorry if it's hard to understand.

Also know this; God does not want religion. He wants a relationship with you, and He will have a relationship with every human heart that asks of it.

Okay, I appreciate your post. But to be honest, it confuses me even more.
What about the Christians, can you honestly say they haven't defined their God? I know the bible is supposed to be written by God himself, but how do we know that? God hasn't recently come down and and told everyone every single thing about himself, so therefore I really find it hard to understand how NOT to believe what we want to believe about God - there's no possible way you can know everything about God. If I'm going to believe in God, I need to know who he is. And if I feel that I can't truly define what God I believe in by reading the bible, I'm sure as Hell going to imagine him as the God I think he is. And how can you say that God would not understand? He is the one who has decided not to tell us everything about himself and the world.

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate though, that's just my honest opinion. Until the day someone comes up to me and tells me every truthful fact about God, I'm going to believe the things I believe a God I would worship would do.

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by CanadaCraig

the only one between ME and GOD is JESUS.

Be careful what you say. You forget there's the Holy Spirit too. A lot of people forget that.

Originally Posted by CanadaCraig

And more often then not - my anger at GOD - is really not about GOD at all. It's about my DAD.

Don't forget God is your eternal Father

Originally Posted by CanadaCraig

When was the last time YOU saw a person move a mountain?! lol

Mark 11:22-24 :: "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

Don't forget that we can share God's power and authority through the Holy Spirit, but that's at a much higher level of faith than most people would "risk" having.

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

Okay, I appreciate your post. But to be honest, it confuses me even more.
What about the Christians, can you honestly say they haven't defined their God? I know the bible is supposed to be written by God himself, but how do we know that? God hasn't recently come down and and told everyone every single thing about himself, so therefore I really find it hard to understand how NOT to believe what we want to believe about God - there's no possible way you can know everything about God. If I'm going to believe in God, I need to know who he is. And if I feel that I can't truly define what God I believe in by reading the bible, I'm sure as Hell going to imagine him as the God I think he is. And how can you say that God would not understand? He is the one who has decided not to tell us everything about himself and the world.

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate though, that's just my honest opinion. Until the day someone comes up to me and tells me every truthful fact about God, I'm going to believe the things I believe a God I would worship would do.

Think about this. How could you get to know a person? There is talking to them and spending time with them, and also you can learn a lot about a person by their journal.

Talking -> Prayer
Journal -> Bible

I cannot stress how important the bible is. You cannot pick it up and expect to understand everything. God is a mysterious God, I'm sure it's even said right in that Bible. We cannot fathom His glory, His greatness, His love. You can keep getting to know Him more and more though prayer (talking WITH Him, not TO Him) and reading that Bible.
Other Christians certainly have tried to define God. This is a problem for a lot of Christians. They will be judged fairly and justly when their time comes, but I know they should not be doing that. That is a fault with the Christian religion, whereas you will not find that near as much when people seek a relationship with God instead.
If God came down and told You every single thing about Himself... He would be repeating Himself somewhat. He already told through the Bible and the angels have sung it forever. He is HOLY, He is LOVE, He is CARING, He is COMPASSIONATE, He is FORGIVING, He is so much more even beyond that. But our minds are so limited to understanding what this all truly means, and such is the glory of God.
If you need to know everything about someone before you follow them, there can be no faith. What glory is it to Him is you do not even trust in Him to have faith? That faith is our only way to show our trust to Him, and no one is more deserving of trust than him.

Any other questions?

EDIT: SWEET. Auto post merging feature for double posts

[Lisa111]

Originally Posted by Annoni

Imagine the disappointment you would have when you end up Hell when you die.

Dude, harsh...

If you swap beliefs around, you are saying what He has created for you is not good enough. It is an insult to His glory, for everything was made for His glory the way it is.

Clear? I'm sorry if it's hard to understand.

Also know this; God does not want religion. He wants a relationship with you, and He will have a relationship with every human heart that asks of it.

I don't see why the minor details matter, as long as the message is right.

Originally Posted by Annoni

I cannot stress how important the bible is. You cannot pick it up and expect to understand everything. God is a mysterious God, I'm sure it's even said right in that Bible. We cannot fathom His glory, His greatness, His love. You can keep getting to know Him more and more though prayer (talking WITH Him, not TO Him) and reading that Bible.

If God is unfathomable, who are we to judge who is worshiping him the "right way..."?

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by Lisa111

Dude, harsh...

Just saying the perspective of what the Bible tells me. The bible can be pretty harsh, but we're not supposed to try to manipulate God or His word. See end of Revelations. So this is not me being harsh, read the Bible and you'll see it can seem much more harsh.

Originally Posted by Lisa111

I don't see why the minor details matter, as long as the message is right.

Depends on what you consider minor details.

Originally Posted by Lisa111

If God is unfathomable, who are we to judge who is worshiping him the "right way..."?

There is no "right way" of worshipping God. Quite frankly there is only one way: Putting Him above yourself. That is what worship is. But He does give us guidance on how to do it, obviously. I can tell you right now trying to change how God works is not a way, that is putting yourself above Him and what His word says.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by Annoni

Firstly, what about Christianity do you not like?
Second, yes God minds very much if you mix and match beliefs. Do you know why?
The world is stuck under this childish notion that WE define who our God is. We control Him, and we can alter reality with our beliefs. If we believe reincarnation, there will be reincarnation.
Imagine the disappointment you would have when you end up Hell when you die.

God defines US - We are made in His image. It's in Genesis 1:27, something you can't miss if you start from the beginning of the Bible.
Gensis 1:27 :: "So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."

He created us, therefore He has dominion over us. We did not create Him, therefore we do not control Him. Making your own beliefs to Him could be considered blasphemous. It's insulting to Him. Do you know why?
Colossians 1:16 :: For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

If you swap beliefs around, you are saying what He has created for you is not good enough. It is an insult to His glory, for everything was made for His glory the way it is.

Clear? I'm sorry if it's hard to understand.

Also know this; God does not want religion. He wants a relationship with you, and He will have a relationship with every human heart that asks of it.

So you believe that the penalty for insulting god is to be condemned to hell? Not to put words in her mouth, but I can imagine that it's beliefs like that that are pushing the OP away from mainstream Christianity. The god depicted in the bible and preached about in sermons is not a particularly just or forgiving god, for all that he is portrayed as such. Anyone who wishes to believe in an "ideal" god is almost forced to deviate from mainstream beliefs at least somewhat. Or at least that's how it looks from my point of view.

[Lugez]

Note: What I'm saying here is mostly what I believe, but I'm also playing a little Devil's Advocate. Because my beliefs about God and mixing beliefs and such run a little similar with ConcreteGirl....Anyway..

Originally Posted by Annoni

He created us, therefore He has dominion over us. We did not create Him, therefore we do not control Him. Making your own beliefs to Him could be considered blasphemous. It's insulting to Him. Do you know why?
Colossians 1:16 :: For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

You see, this is my problem with the Christian God. Here, he sounds like a DICTATOR, not a God. Yeah he created us, but he didn't create us just so we could worship Him. He did so we could LIVE OUR LIVES in whatever way we so choose. I honestly don't really think God would give a crap if you believed in him or not.

Originally Posted by Annoni

If you swap beliefs around, you are saying what He has created for you is not good enough. It is an insult to His glory, for everything was made for His glory the way it is.

Clear? I'm sorry if it's hard to understand.

Also know this; God does not want religion. He wants a relationship with you, and He will have a relationship with every human heart that asks of it.

Swapping beliefs is not an insult AT ALL. He created this Earth and Life. While MEN are the ones who wrote the belief systems and moral codes, such as The Bible. People need to choose beliefs for themselves, and I don't really see how choosing one over another insults God....He's not the one that created them.

I actually believe it would be more of an insult if you stuck to a religion that you personally did not believe. ConcreteGirl has been having doubts about Christianity in itself....Maybe the religion isn't for her. God wouldn't want her to follow something that she had doubts about. And honestly, is it not REASONABLE to have doubts about it considering the world we live in? I'm sure God would understand.

In our current mental state I believe we can only have limited relationship with God....Living your life to the fullest, doing what makes you happy, and standing up for what you believe in is the closest we can come to having a relationship with God.

Originally Posted by Annoni

There is no "right way" of worshipping God. Quite frankly there is only one way: Putting Him above yourself. That is what worship is. But He does give us guidance on how to do it, obviously. I can tell you right now trying to change how God works is not a way, that is putting yourself above Him and what His word says.

I don't believe God asks us to worship him.....You create life just so it could worship you? I don't view God as a pissy deity who cries and sends you to damnation if you don't worship and acknowledge him. That just sounds like a God with too many humanlike qualities. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me. If I were the one who created life, I would want that life to flourish. Worship wouldn't be necessary.

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by Xujhan

So you believe that the penalty for insulting god is to be condemned to hell? Not to put words in her mouth, but I can imagine that it's beliefs like that that are pushing the OP away from mainstream Christianity. The god depicted in the bible and preached about in sermons is not a particularly just or forgiving god, for all that he is portrayed as such. Anyone who wishes to believe in an "ideal" god is almost forced to deviate from mainstream beliefs at least somewhat. Or at least that's how it looks from my point of view.

In a way, it is. The consequence of all sin is hell, but Jesus is the counter against sin that washes us clean, which people tend to talk about more in a private situation for some reason.
See, that's the part I don't understand. People whine and complain that the easiest things send them to Hell, but they don't realize the ticket to Heaven is so easy also. It's asking Him to be Lord of your life, "asking Him into your heart". But you have to mean it, obviously.
As for what you said about not particularily just or forgiving, I understand the forgiving part with the words even I say at times, but just? I think people focus way too much on how just He is and that scares people off because they never hear the forgiveness.

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by Annoni

I think people focus way too much on how just He is and that scares people off because they never hear the forgiveness.

But God isn't exactly being forgiving when he would order people to be stoned. He isn't exactly being kind and just when he has the POWER to stop some of the things that are hurting humans today, that are beyond their own power to stop, yet refuses to. He isn't being kind when he sends homosexuals to Hell but allows repenting mass murders enter Heaven. I know that God is supposed to be perfect and never make mistakes, but commanding someone to stone another human being is far from perfect, because when God did that he was going against his very OWN ten commandments. So my question is, why would God do something like that to begin with...?

Perhaps the better thing would not be to not believe in the God in the Old Testament whatsoever, because clearly, God must have undergone a severe personality change between the time of the old testament and the new. The problem is that I entered the Christian faith being taught to believe that God was exactly those things you listed - king, forgiving, etc. But then imagine my shock when I realized that God KILLED every single living thing on his earth in a great flood, because they weren't perfect like him. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would I want to worship a murderer? Because judging by the new testament, it wouldn't be hard to assume that He's exactly that.

[Annoni]

------
Oh I can tell this is gonna test me

Originally Posted by Lugez

You see, this is my problem with the Christian God. Here, he sounds like a DICTATOR, not a God. Yeah he created us, but he didn't create us just so we could worship Him. He did so we could LIVE OUR LIVES in whatever way we so choose. I honestly don't really think God would give a crap if you believed in him or not.

We can still live our lives however we choose, there's just rewards and consequences for what we do. (Much like reality, huh?)
And of course He cares if you believe Him! He is a jealous God, and if one of His children turns away from their Father He obviously is going to care.
Think about this...
A man has a daughter. He's giving up part of his life to nourish this child of his and give them a good life, constantly sacrificing everything whenever the baby needs. The father goes through many points where he thinks he jst can't take it anymore, but every moment the little girl says "Daddy", or when she learns to say "I love you" makes everything worth it. At age 12, pleasant girl says to her Daddy, "I'm gonna go whore myself out. This life just doesn't seem right to me right now. I'll make money off of that and find my own house, bye." Dad is left behind, all the work walked out the door to whore herself to the world.
It's even worse for God when one of his Creation turn away. He even SACRIFICED a child of His, the Son of God, for all of us! Do you not see the love in that? He sold his son to sin, the very sin He hates, which disgusts Him! He sacrificed His son for US so that we may be saved and have eternal life! That is what the Bible says. This is what the Christian God's views are, the only God.

Originally Posted by Lugez

Swapping beliefs is not an insult AT ALL. He created this Earth and Life. While MEN are the ones who wrote the belief systems and moral codes, such as The Bible. People need to choose beliefs for themselves, and I don't really see how choosing one over another insults God....He's not the one that created them.

Yes, it is an insult to Him. More than it is an insult to any parents that has poured everything into a child only to have a child reject them. Yes, man did write the Bible, but it was THROUGH God that it was written. That's Biblical, that's the Christian God's, the only God's view.
It is true, people need to choose beliefs for themselves, such is the freedom God has offered us. What do you mean by He's not the one that created them?

Originally Posted by Lugez

I actually believe it would be more of an insult if you stuck to a religion that you personally did not believe. ConcreteGirl has been having doubts about Christianity in itself....Maybe the religion isn't for her. God wouldn't want her to follow something that she had doubts about. And honestly, is it not REASONABLE to have doubts about it considering the world we live in? I'm sure God would understand.

This God, the Christian God, The only God, would want her to follow the Bible, which is His word spoken to us that is active in all our lives. That is also biblical. He would want her to sort out those doubts and work through them with her, because He'll always reach down to us, but we don't always reach to Him.
Understanding, yes. He is also just. Foolishness and ignorance (not saying that's what you have, not for me to judge) is not tolerated too lightly, but the price Jesus paid still prevails over that for us if we believe in it and accept it.

Originally Posted by Lugez

In our current mental state I believe we can only have limited relationship with God....Living your life to the fullest, doing what makes you happy, and standing up for what you believe in is the closest we can come to having a relationship with God.

That is true. Here, now, we can only have a limited relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. But after death, we will see face to face, while now we see a poor reflection of the truth. That is biblical, and is also what the Christian God, the only God stands for, because He is the word.
You obviously have some issues understanding what a relationship with God is. Just because we are somewhat limited does not mean we are completely restricted. Faith, miracles, prayer, none of that would work or be done is there was no relationship with God.

Originally Posted by Lugez

I don't believe God asks us to worship him.....You create life just so it could worship you? I don't view God as a pissy deity who cries and sends you to damnation if you don't worship and acknowledge him. That just sounds like a God with too many humanlike qualities. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me. If I were the one who created life, I would want that life to flourish. Worship wouldn't be necessary.

Humanlike qualities, funny you should mention that.
Genesis 1:27 :: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

We are in His image, so we're bound to be a bit like Him.

There is so much more to say, and I don't want to be wasting my fingers.
He wants us to worship Him, most people would love to be worshipped, to be put above by someone. And He is our Creator, so when we ignore Him, He does not like it. When Creation puts aside the Creator and does not thank Him for the life He has given to ungrateful souls, He's not going to be bursting with joy to these people and how they're living.

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

But God isn't exactly being forgiving when he would order people to be stoned. He isn't exactly being kind and just when he has the POWER to stop some of the things that are hurting humans today, that are beyond their own power to stop, yet refuses to. He isn't being kind when he sends homosexuals to Hell but allows repenting mass murders enter Heaven. I know that God is supposed to be perfect and never make mistakes, but commanding someone to stone another human being is far from perfect, because when God did that he was going against his very OWN ten commandments. So my question is, why would God do something like that to begin with...?

Perhaps the better thing would not be to not believe in the God in the Old Testament whatsoever, because clearly, God must have undergone a severe personality change between the time of the old testament and the new. The problem is that I entered the Christian faith being taught to believe that God was exactly those things you listed - king, forgiving, etc. But then imagine my shock when I realized that God KILLED every single living thing on his earth in a great flood, because they weren't perfect like him. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would I want to worship a murderer? Because judging by the new testament, it wouldn't be hard to assume that He's exactly that.

Honestly, there's a lot you don't understand a lot of misguided information here. I would sort some things out for you to better understand, would you like that?

And, this statement bothers me.
"He isn't being kind when he sends homosexuals to Hell but allows repenting mass murders enter Heaven."
You're missing a piece here. Actually, the only piece. The whole thing. Both homosexuals and murderers can go to either Heaven or Hell. It's where their heart is at in God and with God and whether they have accepted the truth of Jesus that determines Heaven or Hell - not the type of sin. All sin is equal to Him. All sin is detestable to Him.

The stoning, Old vs. New Testament, and the flood are all things that require a lot of explanation since you seem either unknowing of the truth to them or are confused about the reality of them. If you want to see another view of it all with more depth to it, please ask.

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by Annoni

He wants us to worship Him, most people would love to be worshipped, to be put above by someone. And He is our Creator, so when we ignore Him, He does not like it. When Creation puts aside the Creator and does not thank Him for the life He has given to ungrateful souls, He's not going to be bursting with joy to these people and how they're living.

I still don't see why I should have to believe everything said in the bible in order to be pleasing God. It doesn't make sense to me, when what I get from Romans 10:09 (Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved) is that all I have to do to make it into Heaven is believe in God. Though I do not recall ever reading in the bible that you had to also believe certain qualities about God, in order to truly believe in him.

I also would like to know how I am supposed to always love God. I don't care if God is hurt when I turn away from him, he has a whole darn Religion devoted to him - yet that still is not enough for him? It seems like God would happy with the believers he did have, and not hate the non believers so terribly that he would send them to Hell because they angered him.

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

I still don't see why I should have to believe everything said in the bible in order to be pleasing God. It doesn't make sense to me, when what I get from Romans 10:09 (Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved) is that all I have to do to make it into Heaven is believe in God. Though I do not recall ever reading in the bible that you had to also believe certain qualities about God, in order to truly believe in him.

I also would like to know how I am supposed to always love God. I don't care if God is hurt when I turn away from him, he has a whole darn Religion devoted to him - yet that still is not enough for him? It seems like God would happy with the believers he did have, and not hate the non believers so terribly that he would send them to Hell because they angered him.

God does not hate the non-believers, He hates the sin that has stolen His children away from Him.
God absolutely cannot stand sin. If you sinful, you cannot go to Heaven. Jesus is what cleanses and purifies us so that we may go to Heaven, holy and pleasing to God. Romans 10:9, as you have.
Loving God comes through a relationship with Him, just like loving a human. Experience in a relationship with Him, wholeheartedly, will barely give you a chance to not love Him once you start having things revealed to you.
But why should you want so much more if you already have a ticket to heaven?
Our actions here still have an effect after we die here and go to either Heaven or Hell. There are rewards in Heaven for those that have . . . I'm not even sure how to explain it, but those who live outwardly and inwardly for God and use their gifts will be rewarded accordingly. Also, if you live in total sin and are not sorry for it and see no point in worshiping God, then when you thought you got saved, did you really? If it is not committed in your heart, then it is meaningless, nothing more than a resounding gong. It needs to be heartfelt, really and truly believed and wanted.
This is an answer to most of your questions:
Romans 12:1-2 :: Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

And God DOES care so much to win your heart, even if He has millions of others in His arms already. Our Shepherd, our God, He will go out to save one sheep because of the amazing, beautiful, abundant love He has for each and every single one, no matter their appearance, heart, or actions, He will always try to reach out, even if it's the last lost sheep in the world and He has all else, His love will not let that one sheep go. But the sheep always has a choice.

[eyes_of_an_angel]

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

I still don't see why I should have to believe everything said in the bible in order to be pleasing God. It doesn't make sense to me, when what I get from Romans 10:09 (Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved) is that all I have to do to make it into Heaven is believe in God. Though I do not recall ever reading in the bible that you had to also believe certain qualities about God, in order to truly believe in him.

I also would like to know how I am supposed to always love God. I don't care if God is hurt when I turn away from him, he has a whole darn Religion devoted to him - yet that still is not enough for him? It seems like God would happy with the believers he did have, and not hate the non believers so terribly that he would send them to Hell because they angered him.

he is happy with the believers that he has. but He is also saddend by the people who are non believers. everyone that is born is God's child and He loves them so much that he sent his only son to die for every sin they would one day commit. God has given us free will; we can either choose to follow him or we can turn our backs to him. Even christians are not anywhere near perfect and it hurts God to see us do things that are against his will. The bible says that the wages of sin is death but we have the choice against that! God doesn't want to just sit around and murder us, he wants to have a deep relationship with us. Jesus steps in and covers our sins for us;he takes the blame. look at it like this..jesus is like a doorway (he says "i am the way the truth and the life. no man comes to the father except through me") Even when something bad happens God is still there (and no he's not sitting there laughing evily saying "oh look my people are misarable") he loves us and doesn't want to see us in pain but sometimes we have to go through the hard times to see the good that God has planned in the end of the situation.
He loves you and he will forgive anything that you do but only if you ask for the forgiveness. he gave the free will...you have the choice. if you have any questions then feel free to ask me. i know it seemed like i rambled so if somethings not clear then tell me

[Lugez]

Hmm yes this is interesting.

Originally Posted by Annoni

------
Oh I can tell this is gonna test me

I'd send you coffee if I could. Your response seemed like it took awhile.

Originally Posted by Annoni

We can still live our lives however we choose, there's just rewards and consequences for what we do. (Much like reality, huh?)

Thats where society comes in. As for what God does, it's impossible to really know what exactly happens..

Originally Posted by Annoni

And of course He cares if you believe Him! He is a jealous God, and if one of His children turns away from their Father He obviously is going to care.

Not jealous, but more childish to me. There's a huge difference between a Father, and a Creator. He is my creator, not my father.

I created this delicious ham sandwich....But I wouldn't say I'm it's father since I created it....That'd be really strange..

Originally Posted by Annoni

Think about this...
A man has a daughter. He's giving up part of his life to nourish this child of his and give them a good life, constantly sacrificing everything whenever the baby needs. The father goes through many points where he thinks he jst can't take it anymore, but every moment the little girl says "Daddy", or when she learns to say "I love you" makes everything worth it. At age 12, pleasant girl says to her Daddy, "I'm gonna go whore myself out. This life just doesn't seem right to me right now. I'll make money off of that and find my own house, bye." Dad is left behind, all the work walked out the door to whore herself to the world.

Yes, it is an insult to Him. More than it is an insult to any parents that has poured everything into a child only to have a child reject them.

I view this scenario is that DAD'S fault, not the daughter's. If he would have raised her in the PROPER manner, than she wouldn't want to whore herself. He clearly did something wrong with his parenting if the daughter didn't care enough to even stay with him. He clearly did something wrong if she did what she did....I demand the whole story!

Plus, this is assuming that God was the one responsible for my upbringing. As far as I recall, my parents were the ones that raised me, not some God.

Also, do remember that when it comes to God, he doesn't have 1 daugher. He has, um, over 6 BILLION children apparently. Is he honestly expecting every single one of them to turn to his will? Yeah, I want to slap a unicorn's ass, but you know what, I know it will NEVER happen. He's dreaming if he expects that much out of everyone.

One more point....If I were a parent, I would personally give it my all to ensure that my child lives a good life and makes good decisions. However, I understand that in the end that it is MY child's decision on what he/she wants to do with their life. If they become of age and want to whore themselves out, then that's their own decision. Sure I'll be dissapointed, but my love for them wouldn't change. It's their own life, and I would view it as a failure on MY part as a parent, not as a failure of my child. But ultimatley, I raised them so in the end they could make THEIR OWN decision, not do whatever I told them.

Originally Posted by Annoni

It's even worse for God when one of his Creation turn away. He even SACRIFICED a child of His, the Son of God, for all of us! Do you not see the love in that? He sold his son to sin, the very sin He hates, which disgusts Him! He sacrificed His son for US so that we may be saved and have eternal life! That is what the Bible says. This is what the Christian God's views are, the only God.

He rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven with body and soul...So he kinda sacrificed him...But not really. But I'll admit, I can't make a great argument because I don't really see why God HAD to sacrifice his child for us. Was that honestly the only way? Pity.

Originally Posted by Annoni

Yes, man did write the Bible, but it was THROUGH God that it was written. That's Biblical, that's the Christian God's, the only God's view.

Can't really argue here, because I just view the Bible as just another book. A very influential one (I gotta respect it since an entire faith was founded upon it) but just a book. The only way this argument is going is...

Me: It was written my men..
You: Yes, but through God.
Me: Um...No..
You: Um...Yes..
Me: ....
You: .....

So we'll stop before it gets to that.

You also throw the word "biblical" like its supposed to mean something....But sorry, this word doesn't affect me....

Originally Posted by Annoni

What do you mean by He's not the one that created them?

This God, the Christian God, The only God, would want her to follow the Bible, which is His word spoken to us that is active in all our lives. That is also biblical.

Like I said above, the Bible was written by men...Hence, the religions based upon it are founded upon ideas of MEN, not the idea of God....But look above to see where this is going.

Originally Posted by Annoni

You obviously have some issues understanding what a relationship with God is. Just because we are somewhat limited does not mean we are completely restricted. Faith, miracles, prayer, none of that would work or be done is there was no relationship with God.

I never said we were completely restricted, and I agree we are limited. And I view miracles as the work of the world or humans, not an act of God.

Originally Posted by Annoni

Humanlike qualities, funny you should mention that.
Genesis 1:27 :: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

We are in His image, so we're bound to be a bit like Him.

There is so much more to say, and I don't want to be wasting my fingers.
He wants us to worship Him, most people would love to be worshipped, to be put above by someone. And He is our Creator, so when we ignore Him, He does not like it. When Creation puts aside the Creator and does not thank Him for the life He has given to ungrateful souls, He's not going to be bursting with joy to these people and how they're living.

So I should worship a divine human? Sorry, but this sounds like a God I want no association with.

I believe that living fully within HIS creation and treating it with respect is a much better service than actually worshipping him. A just God, in my eyes, would care MUCH more for having his creation flourish and respected. Not so much worship. Doing what makes you happy IS a way to show how grateful you are for life. I don't view worship as a way to do that...

And I bet it does feel nice to be put above someone....But honestly, we're talking about God here. He created life, I mean what more does he want? Sounds greedy to me.

[eyes_of_an_angel]

Originally Posted by Lugez

And I bet it does feel nice to be put above someone....But honestly, we're talking about God here. He created life, I mean what more does he want? Sounds greedy to me.

God gave you life and he can take it away. Just like a parent can give a child something but take it away when they don't follow what the parent wants.

You wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for God. I'm going to leave my reply to you at that.

[Lugez]

Originally Posted by eyes_of_an_angel

God gave you life and he can take it away. Just like a parent can give a child something but take it away when they don't follow what the parent wants.

You wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for God. I'm going to leave my reply to you at that.

But he won't take it away. He gave us life so we could LIVE it, not spend our lives thanking him for it. And the parent child analogy is a poor one because taking an object away and taking LIFE away is two completely different things.

And if it wasn't for us, God would probably be sitting in empty space with his thumb up his ass. But still, that's irrelevant.

I'm grateful for my life, I really am, and I feel the best way to show God that is to live life the way I feel best and be happy for it.

[eyes_of_an_angel]

oh but he can take it away...he's a God of many chances...but eventually those chances run out..you'll see one day...

[Lugez]

Originally Posted by eyes_of_an_angel

oh but he can take it away...he's a God of many chances...but eventually those chances run out..you'll see one day...

If God truly does kill me, and kills me just because I disagree with him, then that would make him a HUGE douchebag (this is the only word that comes to mind, so I'm sorry I can't think of any better).

Even so, I don't believe God kills anyone. LIFE and NATURE kills us, in the physical sense. Not God.

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by eyes_of_an_angel

oh but he can take it away...he's a God of many chances...but eventually those chances run out..you'll see one day...

I don't agree with you.
God is supposed to be perfect, right? Better than man.
Yet he's going to punish someone for not being perfect in his eyes, when he himself says that no humans are perfect. Sorry but, that makes no sense. You make him sound evil. When I think of God I imagine a God who loves you no matter what you do, no matter who you are, as long as you love all that he created. Christian's add a bunch of crap on to that, like "oh you can't do this and that and blah blah blah, or you're not worthy of entering the kingdom of Heaven." All you have to do is be a good person, and in my opinion that will earn you your place in Heaven.

Originally Posted by Lugez

If God truly does kill me, and kills me just because I disagree with him, then that would make him a HUGE douchebag (this is the only word that comes to mind, so I'm sorry I can't think of any better).

Even so, I don't believe God kills anyone. LIFE and NATURE kills us, in the physical sense. Not God.

I agree.

Not to be offensive to anyone, but note that so many Christians say "oh, God doesn't intervene with the world." Yet then they will turn around and say "but he can take your life away from you." Umm.. that's interfering with the world, and your life.

[John 6:29]

I will give you simple answers based on the bible, and I can PM you the references if you would like that, but I am not going to quote the bible word for word, just tell you what it says, and if you want the reference so you can see exactly what it say's PM me.

1. The Bible says all people know there is a God, people reject Christianity because they don't want to be obedient to God because man "loved the darkness instead of the light" and until we turn to God we are sons/daughters of Satan (harsh but it is in the Bible). Also suicide does not send you to hell. No where in the Bible does it say this. Suicide is no more of a sin than lying to your parents, or stealing. God says if you commit one sin you are guilty of all sins. Committing suicide won't send you to hell but if we are going to be judged when we die, would committing suicide be a good way to enter God's court room?

2. Just because you believe there is a God, does not mean you are a Christian. The Bible says even Satan and the demons believe in God, but they are in hell. It's not belief in God that saves you from Hell, it's faith that Jesus will rescue it and a repentance (or turning from) your selfish and sinful ways, to follow Jesus and put Him before everything in your life, which in turn means putting EVERYONE before you. God's commands are not difficult to follow it's just our sinful nature rejecting His way. You may think that following God is too hard, and that you won't be happy. Why even think that? God INVENTED JOY, He made the world for HIM to enjoy! There is know greater joy then having a personal relationship with God. Also why would you want to be glorified 70-80 years on Earth, when you can be glorified for all of eternity if you reject yourself 80 years on earth.

3. God DOES NOT want you mixing other beliefs. The Bible is VERY clear about this, you either serve GOD, or you serve SATAN. Anything that isn't of God is from the Devil. I know this sounds very harsh but it is the truth and if you would like I will provide you several references.

So to summarize your questions,

God does not want you mixing beliefs. You chose Him, or you reject Him. There's no median.

There is no certain religion, being a Christian is not a religion or a belief. It is a personal relationship with your Savior, God. But you're FAITH relies in God's word, which is the Bible, and you should belong to a Bible believing Church. Denomination doesn't matter as long as they preach the Bible and believe its the infallible Word of God, and cannot be altered or changed by man.

If you believe in the "Christian God", no you are not saved. God asks for your repentance, and Faith in His son. And ask's you to follow Him.

You hate the Christian Faith because you love the darkness. It's in everyone's nature. So don't take this personally but you need Jesus as your Savior.

It makes sense and I am willing to help you if you would like. I will not chase after you, but I am here if you need any help, or have any further questions. I hope that you find faith in Jesus and I will pray for you.

Also about your post above about God being perfect, He is. He is more perfect than we can understand, His ways are so just that we will never comprehend why He does the things He does until we get to Heaven (if we are saved). God doesn't call us to be perfect; He calls us to repentance, when we repent God sees us as being sinless, and no matter what we do, we are perfect in God's eyes. But this freedom we are not to use to freely sin. We use it to escape from the guilt of sin, knowing that He loves us. God does intervene with the world, people just don't like accepting that. The Bible says God is sovereign and man has a free will. God has foreknowledge and controls all things, but man has a free will. This doesn't make sense in the human minds, but like I said this is just one of those things that we will wait to see when we get to Heaven. The Bible isn't based off knowledge it's based off Faith. If you try to answer it intellectually, you will have question after question after question, because the Bible is written from the mind of God which the only way to comprehend every aspect of it would to be having the mind of God. But when you become a Christian/Saved you view the bible differently, you may not understand it intellectually, but you believe it, and you know you will receive the answer one day. Look around, look at the complexity of the world, to deny a God would be foolish. And if you know God is real, and the Bible is real, why would you reject the Bible which is written by man by the INSPIRED WORD OF GOD Himself. HE says the only truth can be found in the bible. Like I said you either follow satan or you follow God, it's no ones choice but your own by the sovereignty of God.

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by Lugez

I'd send you coffee if I could. Your response seemed like it took awhile.

Don't drink too much coffee, though it might've been nice

Not jealous, but more childish to me. There's a huge difference between a Father, and a Creator. He is my creator, not my father.

I created this delicious ham sandwich....But I wouldn't say I'm it's father since I created it....That'd be really strange..

Okay, now there is a difference between maker and Creator. In the original language, God creates, but the word for create means something more towards create from nothing; create something new without anything for materials etc. You are making a sandwich; you having starting materials. God didn't. He is theCreator, all things were made through Him.

I view this scenario is that DAD'S fault, not the daughter's. If he would have raised her in the PROPER manner, than she wouldn't want to whore herself. He clearly did something wrong with his parenting if the daughter didn't care enough to even stay with him. He clearly did something wrong if she did what she did....I demand the whole story!

Nope. Weren't we sorta talking about how we have the will to do what we want? She could've lost interest, and also, sin is a huge temptation and a rather easy one. Everyone sins.

Plus, this is assuming that God was the one responsible for my upbringing. As far as I recall, my parents were the ones that raised me, not some God.

We both know where I can go with this, I think. He gave life, He is surely responsible for it.

Also, do remember that when it comes to God, he doesn't have 1 daugher. He has, um, over 6 BILLION children apparently. Is he honestly expecting every single one of them to turn to his will? Yeah, I want to slap a unicorn's ass, but you know what, I know it will NEVER happen. He's dreaming if he expects that much out of everyone.

Short story that was supposed to be extrapolated to include the 6 bil, plus all the rest that have already died before. He honestly wants us all to turn our hearts to Him. Does He know it won't happen? Obviously, since sin is a choice for everyone, and so is salvation, and a lot of people choose no salvation and rejoice in sin. But He still yearns for it, and it pains Him because of the unfathomable love He holds for each person.

One more point....If I were a parent, I would personally give it my all to ensure that my child lives a good life and makes good decisions. However, I understand that in the end that it is MY child's decision on what he/she wants to do with their life. If they become of age and want to whore themselves out, then that's their own decision. Sure I'll be dissapointed, but my love for them wouldn't change. It's their own life, and I would view it as a failure on MY part as a parent, not as a failure of my child. But ultimatley, I raised them so in the end they could make THEIR OWN decision, not do whatever I told them.

That's you though. You aren't perfect. By His very nature, God is perfect, He is not faulted, so a child turning to sin instead of salvation is not God's, the Father's, fault.

He rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven with body and soul...So he kinda sacrificed him...But not really. But I'll admit, I can't make a great argument because I don't really see why God HAD to sacrifice his child for us. Was that honestly the only way? Pity.

It's actually a debate among Christians. Take it this way. Who was the most sinful man to ever walk the earth?
Jesus. He takes all the sin off of whoever believes in Him and has a heart for him.
What is detestable to God?
Sin.
You can figure that out.

Also, Jesus did cry out to God asking if there was any other way, and if there was, to do it. Apparently, there was no other way.

Can't really argue here, because I just view the Bible as just another book. A very influential one (I gotta respect it since an entire faith was founded upon it) but just a book. The only way this argument is going is...

Me: It was written my men..
You: Yes, but through God.
Me: Um...No..
You: Um...Yes..
Me: ....
You: .....

So we'll stop before it gets to that.

So we share something in common: Seeing that arguing can be pointless

You also throw the word "biblical" like its supposed to mean something....But sorry, this word doesn't affect me....

It was meant more for the OP, since the OP asked for the Christian God's views, thus the Bible is the best source for that.

Like I said above, the Bible was written by men...Hence, the religions based upon it are founded upon ideas of MEN, not the idea of God....But look above to see where this is going.

Point taken.

I never said we were completely restricted, and I agree we are limited. And I view miracles as the work of the world or humans, not an act of God.

Refer to point taken above.

So I should worship a divine human? Sorry, but this sounds like a God I want no association with.

He is not human, but we are in his image. If He was purely human, I think I might have some doubts too, since that would mean He is vulnerable to sin I guess.

I believe that living fully within HIS creation and treating it with respect is a much better service than actually worshipping him. A just God, in my eyes, would care MUCH more for having his creation flourish and respected. Not so much worship. Doing what makes you happy IS a way to show how grateful you are for life. I don't view worship as a way to do that...

But if what makes you happy is detestable - sin - to Him, then is it pleasing for Him? No. Our desires will always be somewhat sinful here, therefore, being just, our God will not tolerate sin because He is holy and cannot stand sin, so it is much better to worship and be holy than to eventually fall into sin, as we would.
But we see where this is going.

And I bet it does feel nice to be put above someone....But honestly, we're talking about God here. He created life, I mean what more does he want? Sounds greedy to me.

He wants that life to love Him. If you had a child, you would want the child to love you.

All things were created through him, for him, and by him.

But we see where this is going.

Originally Posted by Lugez

And if it wasn't for us, God would probably be sitting in empty space with his thumb up his ass. But still, that's irrelevant.

Nope. He'd be surrounded by his angels, which would be worshiping Him. Funny how that works out.

Originally Posted by Lugez

If God truly does kill me, and kills me just because I disagree with him, then that would make him a HUGE douchebag (this is the only word that comes to mind, so I'm sorry I can't think of any better).

Even so, I don't believe God kills anyone. LIFE and NATURE kills us, in the physical sense. Not God.

It makes Him a just God that cannot tolerate sin, and therefore, according to the Bible, weeping and gnashing of teeth await you.
And there's much than the physical sense. God's all after souls, not physical bodies, although they may be used as living, holy sacrifices to His will, which pleases Him.

[MadPoet]

Originally Posted by onion

You may think that following God is too hard, and that you won't be happy. Why even think that? God INVENTED JOY, He made the world for HIM to enjoy! There is know greater joy then having a personal relationship with God.

Yet, when I was faithfully going to Church the only thing I ever felt was that I was pressured to believe all that the bible states, or I would not be able to enter Heaven. That is how I feel as a Christian, not at all comfortable, but unaccepted and pressured. Not the need to become a Christian, but the need to escape from being a Christian, if that makes any sense.

I don't believe in Hell, or the devil, yet that is clearly stated in the Bible that there is a Hell. I also don't believe that if there WERE a Hell, that God would send ANYONE no matter what kind of sins they had committed, to suffer so much as they would in Hell. That would simply make him evil, and far from perfect, don't you think?

I would truly love to be a follower of God as I always have been, but without all of the extra crap that goes along with being a Christian, and going to church as a Christian.

[Annoni]

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

I don't agree with you.
God is supposed to be perfect, right? Better than man.
Yet he's going to punish someone for not being perfect in his eyes, when he himself says that no humans are perfect. Sorry but, that makes no sense. You make him sound evil. When I think of God I imagine a God who loves you no matter what you do, no matter who you are, as long as you love all that he created. Christian's add a bunch of crap on to that, like "oh you can't do this and that and blah blah blah, or you're not worthy of entering the kingdom of Heaven." All you have to do is be a good person, and in my opinion that will earn you your place in Heaven.

Mmhmm, He's perfect. But listen to this: Sin is detestable to Him. He is holy, and absolutely cannot stand sin. To be in the presence of sin is not something He can do, He must be separated from it.
And God does love you no matter what! Even while you are turning against Him and uttering curses against Him, He will always love you, but for the people that are not saved by the price of sin that Jesus paid on the cross in blood, they cannot be with God in Heaven.
So, we cannot be with God is we are not pure. Yet there is sin in the world!
Jesus is our answer to salvation here. The blood he paid on the cross removes our burdens, removes our sins, washes us clean and pure, pleasing to God to have a relationship in Heaven with.

[anishift]

I have a few questions.
Aren't we ALL supposed to be the sons and daughters of God? Why did Jesus have to die for our sins? What does that even have to do with ANYTHING? What about before Jesus died? Did the people who died before that not get the forgiveness we do? What is the point, anyway? Why did Jesus have to die, and why couldn't we just be forgiven in the first place. Sure, a loving father would be disappointed if his children were not keeping with the values he gave them. But I know that even if I went out and started "whoring" myself, my Dad would still want to know how I was doing all the time and he would still love me, even if he didn't like what I was doing. My parents wouldn't kill me if I didn't do what they wanted or if I didn't worship them. I can tell you that if I were to create a universe and a species I would not expect them to worship me. I would want them to lead lives of respect and honesty, not expect them to have faith that I didn't program into them in the first place. I mean yea, we're supposed to have a "choice" but how much of a choice is it when we're faced with the fire of eternity if we don't do what he wants? Apparently knowledge of good and evil are programmed into us, why not faith too? God is a perfect God, so why couldn't he just forgive us? What does letting his son die have to do with anything?

[Lugez]

Originally Posted by Annoni

Okay, now there is a difference between maker and Creator. In the original language, God creates, but the word for create means something more towards create from nothing; create something new without anything for materials etc. You are making a sandwich; you having starting materials. God didn't. He is theCreator, all things were made through Him.

All right I see your point. Still doesn't convince me that he's my father. He's my creator.

Originally Posted by Annoni

Nope. Weren't we sorta talking about how we have the will to do what we want? She could've lost interest, and also, sin is a huge temptation and a rather easy one. Everyone sins.

We do have the will to do what we want. And honestly, if she wanted to be a whore than LET her. If it's what makes her happy...I don't believe God should judge her for that. She is in the right by doing what she pleases....

And what is a sin? I'll go more in-depth into that later because I feel it's more appropriate there.

Originally Posted by Annoni

We both know where I can go with this, I think. He gave life, He is surely responsible for it.

I believe he created life so it could take care of itself. Life is meant to flourish and go on it's own, not be tampered with like the Christian God apparently does.

Originally Posted by Annoni

Short story that was supposed to be extrapolated to include the 6 bil, plus all the rest that have already died before. He honestly wants us all to turn our hearts to Him. Does He know it won't happen? Obviously, since sin is a choice for everyone, and so is salvation, and a lot of people choose no salvation and rejoice in sin. But He still yearns for it, and it pains Him because of the unfathomable love He holds for each person.

A reasonable God would know that not everyone would follow him. I agree here. But I don't believe he yearns for anything, because he wants us to live our lives the way we see fit.

Originally Posted by Annoni

That's you though. You aren't perfect. By His very nature, God is perfect, He is not faulted, so a child turning to sin instead of salvation is not God's, the Father's, fault.

So even by his faulty "parenting" he's still perfect? Doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Annoni

It's actually a debate among Christians. Take it this way. Who was the most sinful man to ever walk the earth?
Jesus. He takes all the sin off of whoever believes in Him and has a heart for him.
What is detestable to God?
Sin.
You can figure that out.

Also, Jesus did cry out to God asking if there was any other way, and if there was, to do it. Apparently, there was no other way.

If God was all powerful as they so say, there would have been another way.

Originally Posted by Annoni

He is not human, but we are in his image. If He was purely human, I think I might have some doubts too, since that would mean He is vulnerable to sin I guess.

Again, the WRITERS (ancient peeps) of the Bible say we are in his image but....Yeah, you see where this is going.

Originally Posted by Annoni

But if what makes you happy is detestable - sin - to Him, then is it pleasing for Him? No. Our desires will always be somewhat sinful here, therefore, being just, our God will not tolerate sin because He is holy and cannot stand sin, so it is much better to worship and be holy than to eventually fall into sin, as we would.

It makes Him a just God that cannot tolerate sin, and therefore, according to the Bible, weeping and gnashing of teeth await you.

I want to talk a little more about sin here, as I think here it would be more appropriate.

Here is what I believe...Ok, IF there is a God (I said in my first post I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little on you, so what do I really believe?) I would think he would be NEITHER all good, nor all bad. He just IS. Why? Because when he created life, I don't believe he had a complete set standards on what "right" and "wrong" was. Because when you eliminate the human conscious from the Earth....Is there such a thing as morals? When our planet was just a barren wasteland and water and rocks where there morals? No. So how did "sins" and "right" and "wrong" come about? In short, HUMANS came up with it so we could have a functioning stable society. Who is to say that us and God have the same exact idea of what right and wrong is?

So I don't believe God would view everything as black and white. That this is a "sin" and that isn't. I believe God would look at what you did through YOUR eyes. If you were true to your core, and honestly believed that what you were doing was right, I believe you would be rewarded (I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, so I can't say what happens because it's impossible to know).

However, I believe that a reasonable God would have SOME standards by how he would want others to live...But I believe the most important thing would be to respect his creation. Including life. Would a God want someone going around destroying everything he created? No, he reasonably wouldn't like that.

Originally Posted by Annoni

He wants that life to love Him. If you had a child, you would want the child to love you.

All things were created through him, for him, and by him.

Again, I don't view him as my father. I don't believe "loving" him is necessary, but I PERSONALLY believe that the LEAST you should do is to be grateful for this life. I never viewed the relationship between me and God as parallel between parent and child....But I believe our relationship with each other is a good one. This is just me though.

And you want the child to love you. If it doesn't, are you going to kill it and send it into a burning pit of hell for all eternity?

Originally Posted by Annoni

Nope. He'd be surrounded by his angels, which would be worshiping Him. Funny how that works out.

Ok...He'd be surrounded by his worshipping angels with his thumb up his ass. Better?

Still...I feel bad for those angels. Eternity of worship? That's got to suck ass.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

From what I get out of it, the idea of Christianity is to practice peace, forgiveness, compassion, kindness, being grateful for the life you've been granted, etc... . If god were a person, I don't think he'd have too big of a problem if you don't do everything as outlined in the bible as long as you still adhere to the philosophy and moral teachings of the belief. I can see many reasons why you may dislike Christianity, as I suppose one may be the over-emphasis on punishment and very little on grace and mercy.

It is your belief so you shouldn't think that you cannot believe in it because of what a certain belief says. You can in a way mix and match bits and pieces to personalize your belief. Theoretically, you could believe in the christian god, Vishnu and worship Satan all in one go if you wanted to.

Originally Posted by Annoni

Mmhmm, He's perfect.

Oh how I smile whenever I read that. There is a very big problem you face when you say something or someone is perfect at everything, which is his perfection at imperfection. You may laugh at this but it is true, if he is to be perfect at everything, then that must by logic include being perfect at imperfection.

Originally Posted by Annoni

But listen to this: Sin is detestable to Him. He is holy, and absolutely cannot stand sin. To be in the presence of sin is not something He can do, He must be separated from it.

With the above idea in mind and the fact that god committed many sins, I don't think he has too much of a problem with it. One main verse that shows this is:

“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21)
It does not matter if god hates the sin of the person or the person in general, it is hatred and dislike either way. As you are quite familiar with the bible, I'm sure you know more than one passage where god's rage and fury was mentioned.

Before you quote this and try to give some argument against it, bare in mind the initial thing I said, for him to be perfect, he must be perfect at imperfection. The obvious counter to that argument is that he is perfect only at "good things", however, that is not what is mentioned nor is that what you mentioned.

Originally Posted by Annoni

And God does love you no matter what! Even while you are turning against Him and uttering curses against Him, He will always love you, but for the people that are not saved by the price of sin that Jesus paid on the cross in blood, they cannot be with God in Heaven.

This is where I get very skeptical. If a god were to show unconditional love, then why not let all of his creations into his wonderful place of joy and such? Why have a place set up simply for punishment in some form? I find it rather hard to wrap my head around the idea that he loves you unconditionally even while he decides for you to suffer endlessly.

Originally Posted by Annoni

So, we cannot be with God is we are not pure. Yet there is sin in the world!
Jesus is our answer to salvation here. The blood he paid on the cross removes our burdens, removes our sins, washes us clean and pure, pleasing to God to have a relationship in Heaven with.

The bold shows a contradiction. Somewhere in the bible, I forget which verse, it says the idea that one is lying to themselves and to god when they say that they have not committed sins and are pure. You're saying that Jesus can make us pure but unfortunately, you then say we cannot be with god because we are not pure... . See how that doesn't work?

[Christinaa317o8]

God can't have THAT much of a problem of sin if he can forgive.
And not all sins are equal in God's eyes, thats why there's venial sin and mortal sin.

I'm Catholic but I deffiniatley don't agree with half of what the religion follows by. But I agree with the basic teachings and rules and comandments ect. because I find them in the bible and they're easy to understand. But the things that have different interpretations, like homosexuality I follow my own beliefs just as MANY others do. And God cannot judge that because he didn't make that topic clear. One Christian says that homosexuality is wrong, while the priest of that church says its okay. People follow their own beliefs everyday. And its okay for the OP and anyone else to do so as long as they've looked into the bible and they've searched for other opinions. Which is what the OP has done.

Personaly, I think that some things in this world are out of God's control. I don't think that he has POWER over everything because I refuse to believe that he would let the beautiful world he created to be peaceful end up to be a world of murders drugs and rapes. Then again, the very first sins occured between adam and eve not long after he created the world.

I don't think he has such a big problem with sin as Annoni makes him out to have. We're all born with "original sin" aren't we?

All in all, the bible as well as God is too complex for a lot of us to understand. God created the bible, in my opinion, to create diversity in beliefs. So that he could be preceived in different, but EQUAL ways. We don't worship him in equal ways, but we do see him in countless different ways and I truly do not think that he cares.

I think he does love us unconditionaly, but like I said I still don't think he has time to control everyone's future and plans. I don't think he can cure everyone's suffering and I don't think he's sent enough angels to help. But he still does love us all, he created man.

I think that the OP's belief of Hell isn't quite logical. Hell is not made of fire and burning flames and what not. People who have killed and murdered endlessly go to hell. They don't stay there forever though, that's why there's reincarnation. To me, hell would be a place that consists of misery for those to go who were never sorry and never felt any remorse for what they did wrong. However, those who do commit horrible sins and find God and his forgivness, they are given another chance to go to Heaven. But Hell DOES exists.

I didn't read all the posts because theres a lot and they confuse me. But Most of what I said is in response to the original post and the last few posts.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

Personaly, I think that some things in this world are out of God's control. I don't think that he has POWER over everything because I refuse to believe that he would let the beautiful world he created to be peaceful end up to be a world of murders drugs and rapes. Then again, the very first sins occured between adam and eve not long after he created the world.

So you're saying he's not all-powerful, he's just a very powerful god? Would you also think he is present everywhere or not?

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

I don't think he has such a big problem with sin as Annoni makes him out to have. We're all born with "original sin" aren't we?

I think this matters on whether you're going by the new or old testament. In the old one, he does have a much larger issue with it. Even if you go by a more metaphorical interpretation than a literal one, with the old there's still much more emphasis on punishment.

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

All in all, the bible as well as God is too complex for a lot of us to understand. God created the bible, in my opinion, to create diversity in beliefs. So that he could be preceived in different, but EQUAL ways. We don't worship him in equal ways, but we do see him in countless different ways and I truly do not think that he cares.

Why do you think god made the bible? After all, isn't it said the bible was written in the word of god, which doesn't necessarily mean he wrote the thing.

The bold part confuses me. If he's perceived differently yet equally, how does that work? Also, how does that play into him being worshiped unequally?

As for him not caring, I suppose I would agree with you on that.

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

I think he does love us unconditionaly, but like I said I still don't think he has time to control everyone's future and plans. I don't think he can cure everyone's suffering and I don't think he's sent enough angels to help. But he still does love us all, he created man.

Why does he not have time? You're suggesting he's not all-powerful and not everywhere, so he's not perfect. I have to now wonder, what is your definition of him?

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

I think that the OP's belief of Hell isn't quite logical. Hell is not made of fire and burning flames and what not. People who have killed and murdered endlessly go to hell. They don't stay there forever though, that's why there's reincarnation. To me, hell would be a place that consists of misery for those to go who were never sorry and never felt any remorse for what they did wrong. However, those who do commit horrible sins and find God and his forgivness, they are given another chance to go to Heaven. But Hell DOES exists.

You said at the beginning of your post that you have your own idea of the belief, which is fine and you even go as far as to say people have their own beliefs and have no issue with that. But then you shoot down the OP's idea of hell... . Sort of doesn't fit with you allowing people to interpret the belief and have their own ideas.

[Lugez]

Originally Posted by YourNightmare

Why do you think god made the bible? After all, isn't it said the bible was written in the word of god, which doesn't necessarily mean he wrote the thing.

I believe that this is the main issue when arguing with Christians. People like us don't believe that this ancient book is the word of God, and for good reason.

To me, it's the same thing as me writing down on a piece of paper "God says he loves you." Afterwards, I'd run around saying READ THE WORD OF GOD!!

This is why I believe the Bible is flawed, because it was written by men...But Christians don't believe that, and then they stick to the book with their arguments while we aren't swayed by those words.

And with that, it pretty much impossible to sway each other...

[Christinaa317o8]

Originally Posted by YourNightmare

So you're saying he's not all-powerful, he's just a very powerful god? Would you also think he is present everywhere or not?

I think that he's present in every believer's heart.



Why do you think god made the bible? After all, isn't it said the bible was written in the word of god, which doesn't necessarily mean he wrote the thing.

Yes, thats completely true. I guess I kind of mean that God is okay with being seen different through different perspectives, but at the same time wishes to be worshiped equaly. I don't know how it doesn't make sense. A parent loves each of their children equaly but not the same. He wants each of those who believe in God to share the same amount of love for him. I know of plenty people who are Catholic and have never felt any connection with God but believe in him and the bible. Their beliefs are based more on facts and readings and teachings instead of emotional and spiritual connection. In my opinion, that connection with God is more important than the details of Christianity.



Why does he not have time? You're suggesting he's not all-powerful and not everywhere, so he's not perfect. I have to now wonder, what is your definition of him?

He's not controlling of everything in this world. I just don't believe he is. Why would a God, defined by the bible to be of all greatness, let good people suffer. He wouldn't. But yet, he has saved many suffering. I just kind of led myself to believe that the only explanation for this is that he doesn't have enough time to answer every single prayer.


You said at the beginning of your post that you have your own idea of the belief, which is fine and you even go as far as to say people have their own beliefs and have no issue with that. But then you shoot down the OP's idea of hell... . Sort of doesn't fit with you allowing people to interpret the belief and have their own ideas.

Yes it does. I didn't "shoot it down." I gave my belief on Hell. I didn't contradict myself. I said that I disagreed with her. I think its more than okay to have your own beliefs on God and his teachings, but I never said I agreed with what they were.

---------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Lugez

To me, it's the same thing as me writing down on a piece of paper "God says he loves you." Afterwards, I'd run around saying READ THE WORD OF GOD!!

I've never seen anybody do that. Its not even remotely close to the same thing, but that's your belief.

-The bible is the word of God written by men who followed him in his teachings.
- 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….”
- 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

Originally Posted by Lugez

This is why I believe the Bible is flawed, because it was written by men...But Christians don't believe that, and then they stick to the book with their arguments while we aren't swayed by those words.

I'm a Christian and I know the bible is flawed, but its still guided by God.

[InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU]

Originally Posted by Lugez

I believe that this is the main issue when arguing with Christians. People like us don't believe that this ancient book is the word of God, and for good reason.

To me, it's the same thing as me writing down on a piece of paper "God says he loves you." Afterwards, I'd run around saying READ THE WORD OF GOD!!

This is why I believe the Bible is flawed, because it was written by men...But Christians don't believe that, and then they stick to the book with their arguments while we aren't swayed by those words.

And with that, it pretty much impossible to sway each other...

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

Yes, thats completely true. I guess I kind of mean that God is okay with being seen different through different perspectives, but at the same time wishes to be worshiped equaly. I don't know how it doesn't make sense. A parent loves each of their children equaly but not the same. He wants each of those who believe in God to share the same amount of love for him. I know of plenty people who are Catholic and have never felt any connection with God but believe in him and the bible. Their beliefs are based more on facts and readings and teachings instead of emotional and spiritual connection. In my opinion, that connection with God is more important than the details of Christianity.

What is your rationale for him wanting equal amount of love from everyone? People could and probably do worship him with different amounts of love. The connection you'd have would be proportional to the amount of love and dedication you show, which (at least for the love part) you claim god wishes to have equally.

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

He's not controlling of everything in this world. I just don't believe he is. Why would a God, defined by the bible to be of all greatness, let good people suffer. He wouldn't. But yet, he has saved many suffering. I just kind of led myself to believe that the only explanation for this is that he doesn't have enough time to answer every single prayer.

You didn't really answer the question. I asked what is your definition of god and basically you gave the concept you gave before that you wouldn't view him as being all-powerful. So aside from not being all-powerful, what is your definition of him?

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

Yes it does. I didn't "shoot it down." I gave my belief on Hell. I didn't contradict myself. I said that I disagreed with her. I think its more than okay to have your own beliefs on God and his teachings, but I never said I agreed with what they were.

But you did say that it is perfectly fine for others to have different beliefs. Since you didn't seem to show any reasons against them having it, then it would be implied that you have no problem with others having different beliefs. So this brings it back to you disagreeing with her while strongly making it seem like you have no problem (and presumably also agree) with other people's takes on it.

Originally Posted by Christinaa317o8

I'm a Christian and I know the bible is flawed, but its still guided by God.

But isn't god meant to be the closest thing to perfection? You claim he wrote it and you also claim it is flawed. So that leaves a few possibilities: (1) he wrote it half-assed, (2) he has a long list of flaws and you can probably come up with other possibilities.

[Xujhan]

Originally Posted by Annoni

Think about this...
A man has a daughter. He's giving up part of his life to nourish this child of his and give them a good life, constantly sacrificing everything whenever the baby needs. The father goes through many points where he thinks he jst can't take it anymore, but every moment the little girl says "Daddy", or when she learns to say "I love you" makes everything worth it. At age 12, pleasant girl says to her Daddy, "I'm gonna go whore myself out. This life just doesn't seem right to me right now. I'll make money off of that and find my own house, bye." Dad is left behind, all the work walked out the door to whore herself to the world.
It's even worse for God when one of his Creation turn away. He even SACRIFICED a child of His, the Son of God, for all of us! Do you not see the love in that? He sold his son to sin, the very sin He hates, which disgusts Him! He sacrificed His son for US so that we may be saved and have eternal life! That is what the Bible says. This is what the Christian God's views are, the only God.

I find it convenient that you brought up the parent/child argument, because it's actually further reason to believe that the traditional Christian god is less than praiseworthy. Some of the primary tenets of parenting go as follows: Your children owe you nothing. It was your choice to bring them into this world, and it is therefore your responsibility to care for them until they are capable of caring for themselves. At that point it becomes your duty to allow them to make their own choices, even if you disagree with them. You cannot make demands of your grown children as repayment for the effort you put in raising them. Anything they choose to give you should be given freely out of love, not out of obligation.

So a god who demands that we follow his laws, regardless of our feelings, and who demands that we worship him and ask his forgiveness for our sins - besides being simply vain and jealous - fails some of the basic tests of parenthood. God has no more right to condemn someone to hell for faithlessness than the father in your example would have to beat his daughter for her actions. If you wish to argue that god is perfect and cannot be wrong, then perhaps the father should follow god's example and beat his daughter. Wouldn't it then be those parents who choose not to abuse the children who are being "sinful"? How absurd or destructive would god's demands have to get before you think we should begin to question him?

My belief is that we should question everything. That way we learn and grow. I'm not willing to blindly accept any god or religion, nor do I think anyone else should. I think there are too many reasons to doubt god's perfection to willingly hand him the devotion he seeks. In a way, it's Pascal's wager in reverse. If god is truly loving, then he will forgive your lack of belief. If god is not willing to forgive such a minor fault - that of simply having guessed wrong on a yes or no question - then he is a vain, spiteful god, and the correct moral choice is to defy him. That's how I see things.

[John 6:29]

Originally Posted by Concrete Girl

Yet, when I was faithfully going to Church the only thing I ever felt was that I was pressured to believe all that the bible states, or I would not be able to enter Heaven. That is how I feel as a Christian, not at all comfortable, but unaccepted and pressured. Not the need to become a Christian, but the need to escape from being a Christian, if that makes any sense.

I don't believe in Hell, or the devil, yet that is clearly stated in the Bible that there is a Hell. I also don't believe that if there WERE a Hell, that God would send ANYONE no matter what kind of sins they had committed, to suffer so much as they would in Hell. That would simply make him evil, and far from perfect, don't you think?

I would truly love to be a follower of God as I always have been, but without all of the extra crap that goes along with being a Christian, and going to church as a Christian.

The thing about Christianity is you cannot pick and chose what and what not to believe. It's either all true or none of it is true. You either believe God, or you believe He is a liar. I can tell you I believe God, because for me there is to much evidence of His existence to call Him a liar, when the book is the WORD of God. So to eliminate any part of the Bible is eliminating what God Himself said.

God is perfect. Hell is what we deserve, when you become Saved or come to the realization for you need of a Savior it because evident that this is what we deserve. God created the world to have a relationship with Him. Because He gave man a free will, man chose to sin against Him, and therefore we separated ourselves eternally from God, and He calls us to be reconciled back to Him, which is why He came down to earth in the form of a human so that we could have a one time sacrifice to be reconciled back to Him and share the relationship with God that we were supposed to have. A lot of people say "oh well if God sends us to hell then He doesn't love us, He is not perfect". This is because you are choosing to love darkness, you don't realize everything wrong that you have done. You have committed a capital crime against your creator. In life when you commit a crime, are we not punished? Hell is our punishment for our Sins.

Just because you chose to not believe in Hell, because you aren't as smart as God (not to sound rude, but you aren't) and can't understand His divine plan and why precisely God would send anyone tell Hell, doesn't mean that Hell doesn't exist. I may choose not to believe in gravity, yet if I were to tell you I am going to go jump off a cliff you would try and warn me because you know gravity does exist and I would die if I were to jump off. The Bible is God's warning to us, in the end you will either chose to believe in God's warning or you will go into an eternal death.

I am not trying to argue with you, I am sharing with you what I believe, and what the Bible says. I am not going to force any of this on you because ultimately it's between you and God if you chose to become saved or not. All I can do is let you hear what He has to say about the questions you were curious about.

It is good to be analytical about the bible yet trying to understand the bible completely and intellectually will never happen, because it is written by someone who is greater than us. If you are genuienly interested in God's word I can tell you with certainty that God is trying to open your heart to Him because the Bible says, that no one seeks after God, but that God seeks after him/her and whoever hears Him, and opens his door for God, that Jesus will accept Him into His eternal Kingdom. So I hope if you are hearing God tug at your heart that you will answer Him, and not harden yourself, because nothing but Jesus can save you, and eternity is a long time to spend in hell eternally separated from God.

[Union Of V]

OOOOOoooo this is a FUN debate!!!! I can't possibly debate every side to it, but here are some great points that cropped up:

God DOES NOT want you mixing other beliefs. The Bible is VERY clear about this, you either serve GOD, or you serve SATAN. Anything that isn't of God is from the Devil. I know this sounds very harsh but it is the truth and if you would like I will provide you several references.

This is interesting. So say someone lived their entire life without explicitly serving god, however she worked for the poor, saved lives, helped those around her and lived a life dedicated to bettering the lives of others. You're saying she's a theistic satanist and the enemy of god? Why should I worship him then?

-The bible is the word of God written by men who followed him in his teachings.
- 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….”
- 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

So... the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible? Enough said...

The concept of not worshipping god as sinful, as Lugez touched on, is a bit bizarre in my eyes. For me a sin is committing a reproachable act, and I can't see how not believing in something can be considered a reproachable act - in fact I'd hesitate to call it an act at all. For me the concept of sin must be universal, and not just confined to one particular faith.

[John 6:29]

No, a woman or man who lives their life serving others will not go to Heaven.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by Grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.



Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,


Key Points:
1. You are saved by Grace (free gift for man, an unmeritted reward... Jesus)
2. Through our Faith in HIM to save us, which doesn't come from us but from God
3. NOT of works or deeds of righteousness, but by His mercy
5. The washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit is when we have Faith and turn to God he washes our Spirit clean, with the Holy Spirit (a spiritual baptism)


2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

It say's in this verse even that you quoted, it is written by men by the Holy Spirit (people who were saved), SPOKE FROM GOD thus being God's word.

James 4:17
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.