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Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 2nd 2011, 07:12 PM

This thread has been labeled as triggering, particularly on the subject of peer pressure or bullying, by the original poster or by a Moderator. The contents of this thread might therefore not be suitable for certain sensitive users. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

This story has made me so angry, I think it is wrong and disrespectful that the teachers have told bullied kids to act less gay to stop being bullied and have told other students to act less gay to avoid them getting bullied.

Just proves to me that no matter what happens at school, no matter what the schools policy on bullying is teachers just do not care! How can they tell bullied students to act less gay. Makes me so cross. No matter what the reason for being bullied teachers should stop it, Though personally I see there is no reason to be bullied.

Should the teachers be sacked for homophobic comments ?

Here's the article.
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/loca...n_t_be_so_gay/



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 2nd 2011, 07:52 PM

I don't have time to read the article right now. But saying teachers don't care is a major generalization and it's just not true. I can't speak for every teacher, but I know that myself as well as the many teachers and education majors that I personally know care, probably too much. Depending on the school, then I'd say the teachers should get some form of punishment for "homophobic" comments depending on what they were and how it came up and the kind of school (ie. religious vs public). I don't necessarily think they should be fired, but I don't know specifics. Like I said, I don't have time to read the article right now.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 2nd 2011, 08:02 PM

The article mostly says how teachers are telling gay and lesbian students to avoid being bullied and to stop getting bullied they should do their differently and to stop acting so gay.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 2nd 2011, 08:16 PM

I kind of agree. There is nothing wrong with being gay, but let's face it, not many straight people go around using "Straight lysps" or talk about how straight they are all the time.

I don't think it should be hidden per say, but some people take gay pride too far.

We do n't know the specifics, and the media loves to inflame hot button issues.
The teacher could have easily easily said something along the lines of what I said, but the whole issue was blown out of proportion.

Again, I'm not being anti-gay, I'm not saying we should hide who we are, but gay people who make and effort to make sure everyone within a ten-mile radius know they are gay are annoying.

Again though, I'm not bashing gays, I'm not saying all gays are overly dramatic or that all they talk about is bein gay, but the ones are overly dramatic, and talk about nothing aside from being gay need to shut up because they're embarassing the LGBTQ (I hope I didn't forget anything/mix up the order) community.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 2nd 2011, 10:24 PM

Just out of spite towards political correctness... I'm inclined to even somewhat support what the teacher said. In fact, it was very practical advice. Being gay is fine, or lesbian. Talking in strange accents, and generally behaving "strange"... ahem... is simply strange, and although I wouldn't necessarily say it's gay, it's part of the reason people get bullied. It has little to do with being gay... although I'm inclined to think there is some correlation.

But... it does make it look like the teacher who said it doesn't care much. There is a certain extent to which kids can help themselves, hence the advice given is practical, whether you like it or not. But it's the teacher's job also to help the kids... which this is quite a bad example of.

Definitely shouldn't be sacked for homophobic comments. I'd feel sick if they were, it would again be political correctness going rampant.

I've known of idiots who pulled a gay act, simply to draw attention to themselves. I mean... where the fuck is society going to with this??? The guy wasn't even gay it turned out. There are people using this whole bullshit to their advantage because they KNOW it's crapped up. It's almost as if being gay is encouraged sometimes... because you suddenly have political correctness shielding you from almost everything, no one's allowed to be rude to you etc. I hate it. In fact, if I ticked a box saying I'm gay, from Pakistan and Jewish on every job I've tried applying to, I'd probably get three times as many job interviews. I should also say I have dyslexia or something. Goddamit. I'm ranting now.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 01:55 AM

I love that people are saying this is okay because they are against political correctness. 'Political correctness' is such a stupid term that people just go crazy over.

Sometimes doing the right thing just falls under the umbrella of political correctness. When people go overboard, and take political correctness to an extreme, that's ridiculous and ineffective. So is just opposing something because you don't want to support the 'political correct' stance, it makes you just as ridiculous and just as extreme.

If you actually support the teachers in this case, fine. But don't just support them because you want to zig where everyone else is zagging.

Let's put this in perspective.

"Miss, the kids are calling me a nerd." "ACT LESS SMART."
"Miss, I'm being bullied by racists." "ACT LESS BLACK."
"Miss, they're calling me four-eyes." "ACT LESS SHORT SIGHTED."

So if you actually think the answer to being bullied is to not be yourself, or to minimize parts of yourself to appease people who hate you because you're gay or religious or overweight or have a learning disability or wear clothes people don't like, great, take that position. But I doubt anyone actually thinks that.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 02:43 AM

Marguerite: If in the case of the black child, if he was intentionally behaving like a "gangster" I would give the same piece of advice.

If the smart child was belittling his peers because of his intelligence (which smart people tend to do) I would give him the same advice.

In the case of glasses it's a douchebag move about something that cannot be controlled.

To me you shouldn't put up a fake facade and be angry when people tease you because of it. (No one who isn't apart of a gang really is "gantsa" inside, no one who is gay really feels the need to wear bright pink everyday and fake a lisp. No one who is smart really feels the need to be mean to others. It's a facade put up. If you can take that facade down to stop the teasing, bloody well do it.)

I'm not against political correctness, I'm against some gays making all of them look like jerks who are actually pretty creepy/annoying.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 03:05 AM

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Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
If in the case of the black child, if he was intentionally behaving like a "gangster" I would give the same piece of advice.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 03:48 AM

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You know what I mean. Pants half falling down, 3 times oversized undershirt as the only shirt, likely fake or possibly stolen gold, bandana with skulls or something on it, and swearing a lot. If you get teased for somehow pretending to be either a rapstar or gang member, you kinda deserve it. It's in any middle/highschool across the country



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 04:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
You know what I mean. Pants half falling down, 3 times oversized undershirt as the only shirt, likely fake or possibly stolen gold, bandana with skulls or something on it, and swearing a lot. If you get teased for somehow pretending to be either a rapstar or gang member, you kinda deserve it. It's in any middle/highschool across the country

?? Not once did I say anything about being 'gangster', you drew that merely from me mentioning racism against black people. And if someone is being bullied because they're black, and you immediately jump to 'it was probably their fault for acting so gangster'... well, let's just say it doesn't suprise me that you support the teachers in the case.

And while we're on the topic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
no one who is gay really feels the need to wear bright pink everyday and fake a lisp.
What on earth do you mean fake lisp? I get it now, you think being gay means wearing pink all the time and being black means being a gangster, but I've never heard anyone say that a gay stereotype is a fake lisp. Poor children with lisps all across the country must be getting beat up by homophobes.

Also, let's say someone does decide to wear pink everyday (and that wearing pink is the international sign of 'I'm gay!')- why should that person have to wear more blacks and whites just to make sure some bullies don't humiliate, tease, or physically abuse them? Why should anyone have to pretend to be someone else to make sure bullies don't bully them? That's kind of terrible advice. The bullies are the problem. If you approach the topic of bullying with the advice:

"Hey, kids, now remember; bullying is bad... so don't be yourselves!"

You're already failing.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Marguerite: If in the case of the black child, if he was intentionally behaving like a "gangster" I would give the same piece of advice.

If the smart child was belittling his peers because of his intelligence (which smart people tend to do) I would give him the same advice.

In the case of glasses it's a douchebag move about something that cannot be controlled.

To me you shouldn't put up a fake facade and be angry when people tease you because of it. (No one who isn't apart of a gang really is "gantsa" inside, no one who is gay really feels the need to wear bright pink everyday and fake a lisp. No one who is smart really feels the need to be mean to others. It's a facade put up. If you can take that facade down to stop the teasing, bloody well do it.)

I'm not against political correctness, I'm against some gays making all of them look like jerks who are actually pretty creepy/annoying.

- Justin
Are you actually suggesting that no gay people like to wear the colour pink just because they like it? That they are all obviously doing it to be "annoying"? Because, firstly, that's a ridiculous conclusion to come to. And secondly, it shouldn't matter. Bullying is not okay regardless of whether a child "deserves" it because they act a certain way.

Also I've never found that smart kids are mean to other kids just because of their intelligence. I've found that arrogant kids are mean to other kids because of their intelligence, and being smart is not the same as being arrogant.


I think the issue comes down to a lack of training for teachers about how to deal with bullying. Which is not at all their fault. These days, schools are so concerned about "looking good" that they don't want to admit that they have problems with bullying, drugs, cheating, so on. So they just sweep it under the rug instead of actually dealing with the problem.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 08:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
I love that people are saying this is okay because they are against political correctness. 'Political correctness' is such a stupid term that people just go crazy over.

Sometimes doing the right thing just falls under the umbrella of political correctness. When people go overboard, and take political correctness to an extreme, that's ridiculous and ineffective. So is just opposing something because you don't want to support the 'political correct' stance, it makes you just as ridiculous and just as extreme.

If you actually support the teachers in this case, fine. But don't just support them because you want to zig where everyone else is zagging.

Let's put this in perspective.

"Miss, the kids are calling me a nerd." "ACT LESS SMART."
"Miss, I'm being bullied by racists." "ACT LESS BLACK."
"Miss, they're calling me four-eyes." "ACT LESS SHORT SIGHTED."

So if you actually think the answer to being bullied is to not be yourself, or to minimize parts of yourself to appease people who hate you because you're gay or religious or overweight or have a learning disability or wear clothes people don't like, great, take that position. But I doubt anyone actually thinks that.
You're twisting the context a bit with your quotations on "act less smart" "act less black" etc...

When someone tells someone else to "act less gay", it doesn't necessarily directly suggest that person is gay at all, but just behaving awkward in general, or simply that he, she, or it, is stupid, or dumb etc. I've heard people call all sorts of things gay... cars, houses, street names, shops, pencil cases, etc... I think you get the point. Never have I heard in my life "black", "short-sighted", used to describe behaviour, "smart" more frequently though, but usually positively and used as a compliment. Some things you can change, some things you can't. Being black, short sighted, or even being smart, you can't, not really. "Acting gay" here is referring to a certain style of behaviour, which can be changed. Here, the person "acting gay" has two choices (assuming the teacher doesn't help):

1. Either they stop "acting gay" which would draw less attention to themselves and perhaps get them bullied less, or
2. They start going to the gym, do karate, kick boxing and judo, and learn to stand their ground.

In my opinion, very practical advice, although personally I'd chose the second option.

And about the political correctness thing I threw in... I simply chipped it in because I felt like ranting. It did not alter the course of my argument. Political correctness or not, I'd not support the sacking of the teacher.

There are two meanings to "gay" in this context:
1. Homosexual
2. Stupid

If they were bullied not for "acting gay" (2), but actually "being gay" (1), it would be a different story. The difference is in how the words "being" and "acting" are used. The teacher clearly told the kids to "act less gay".

And please goddamit don't call me RATHIST or whatever. I'm just dishing out the facts as far as I'm aware of them.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 08:37 AM

I'm not sure how many people noticed in the article but the teachers admitted they received very little training of how to deal with bullying. They should of course try their absolute best and use common-sense but at the end of the day, if they're not being trained properly, then this is a systemic problem and it'd be unfair to put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the teachers.

I'm just speculating but when the teachers told the kids to act, "less gay", they're probably adhering to the logic that if the student stops doing the act that bullies focus on, then the bullying will end. Obviously it's a moronic statement on the teachers' part.

According to the article, LBGTQ groups stepped up because they immediately thought the teachers were targeting homosexuality and the groups made a big fuss about homophobia. However, I question whether the teachers were referring to sexual orientation or to alternative meanings of "gay", such as happy, blissful, light-hearted, highly emotional, full of colour and so forth. To me, it was a way of telling the students to man up and grow (proverbial) balls to stand up for themselves or to stop acting in such an unusual manner that calls for attention. In other words, quit being a stupid baby-like whiner and do something about it to address the issue themselves, whether they take martial art lessons or bulk up with muscle. Their word choice was pretty poor as they could have been much clearer but I think it's ridiculous the various groups were unable to acknowledge the possibility the teachers intended the non-sexual definition.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 09:58 AM

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You're twisting the context a bit with your quotations on "act less smart" "act less black" etc...

When someone tells someone else to "act less gay", it doesn't necessarily directly suggest that person is gay at all, but just behaving awkward in general, or simply that he, she, or it, is stupid, or dumb etc. I've heard people call all sorts of things gay... cars, houses, street names, shops, pencil cases, etc... I think you get the point. Never have I heard in my life "black", "short-sighted", used to describe behaviour, "smart" more frequently though, but usually positively and used as a compliment. Some things you can change, some things you can't. Being black, short sighted, or even being smart, you can't, not really. "Acting gay" here is referring to a certain style of behaviour, which can be changed. Here, the person "acting gay" has two choices (assuming the teacher doesn't help):

1. Either they stop "acting gay" which would draw less attention to themselves and perhaps get them bullied less, or
2. They start going to the gym, do karate, kick boxing and judo, and learn to stand their ground.

In my opinion, very practical advice, although personally I'd chose the second option.

And about the political correctness thing I threw in... I simply chipped it in because I felt like ranting. It did not alter the course of my argument. Political correctness or not, I'd not support the sacking of the teacher.

There are two meanings to "gay" in this context:
1. Homosexual
2. Stupid

If they were bullied not for "acting gay" (2), but actually "being gay" (1), it would be a different story. The difference is in how the words "being" and "acting" are used. The teacher clearly told the kids to "act less gay".

And please goddamit don't call me RATHIST or whatever. I'm just dishing out the facts as far as I'm aware of them.
I think regarding acting/being, it's simply semantics. If you are saying that by saying 'gay' the teachers meant it in a slang context (as in stupid, dumb, lame etc) I think you're reaching... a lot. For one, I've never met anyone over the age of 16 who goes around using the word 'gay' in that context, and I certainly doubt teachers would even be allowed to go around using that word that way. Even if it were true, it would probably be even worse. If someone is getting bullied and the teachers tell them to basically not be so lame... well, I don't have to explain that any futher.

If someone is acting really flamboyently, drawing attention to themselves etc which puts them at risk from bullies, I understand why the teachers would think they should just 'tone it down', but it's a dumb idea and victim blaming.

I wouldn't go to a neo nazi convention and announce my conversion to Judaism, and I wouldn't go to the bad side of town in the middle of the night with a $10000 necklace hanging around my neck.

The difference is, though, going to school shouldn't be putting yourself in a 'dangerous situation'. If school is an at risk place, THAT should be adressed, not whether or not a student's hair is 'straight enough'.

And as for the teachers, I want to make it clear that I don't think they should be fired. I was merely arguing that it WAS bad advice and it is not being over politically correct to say so. However I do think that sometimes the LGBT community takes things to an extreme. This was terrible advice for sure but it wasn't some human rights abuse as it is being portrayed. I think the teachers should be educated, not fired, because it doesn't sound like their actions were malicious or intentionally harmful... just stupid.

By the way, is a RATHIST a racist as told by one of those famous gay lisps?


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 10:36 AM

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I think regarding acting/being, it's simply semantics. If you are saying that by saying 'gay' the teachers meant it in a slang context (as in stupid, dumb, lame etc) I think you're reaching... a lot. For one, I've never met anyone over the age of 16 who goes around using the word 'gay' in that context, and I certainly doubt teachers would even be allowed to go around using that word that way. Even if it were true, it would probably be even worse. If someone is getting bullied and the teachers tell them to basically not be so lame... well, I don't have to explain that any futher.

If someone is acting really flamboyently, drawing attention to themselves etc which puts them at risk from bullies, I understand why the teachers would think they should just 'tone it down', but it's a dumb idea and victim blaming.

I wouldn't go to a neo nazi convention and announce my conversion to Judaism, and I wouldn't go to the bad side of town in the middle of the night with a $10000 necklace hanging around my neck.

The difference is, though, going to school shouldn't be putting yourself in a 'dangerous situation'. If school is an at risk place, THAT should be adressed, not whether or not a student's hair is 'straight enough'.

And as for the teachers, I want to make it clear that I don't think they should be fired. I was merely arguing that it WAS bad advice and it is not being over politically correct to say so. However I do think that sometimes the LGBT community takes things to an extreme. This was terrible advice for sure but it wasn't some human rights abuse as it is being portrayed. I think the teachers should be educated, not fired, because it doesn't sound like their actions were malicious or intentionally harmful... just stupid.

By the way, is a RATHIST a racist as told by one of those famous gay lisps?
Lol... I didn't have gay in mind at all at the end what I said "RATHIST". I was just generally portraying stupidity further, after already having brought racism up where it's completely out of context. So now people can accuse me of being rathist towards people who talk with a lisp... Jesus christ... fml. If anyone does I'll just call you a troll and ignore you.

Back on topic, like I said before, I think the teacher's advice is practical (though it could have been worded and handled differently). Yes, in every school things should be done to tackle bullying directly by the teachers, but in the end the teachers can't supervise and police everything can they? In the classroom is one thing, in the playground it gets harder, in the corridors between lessons it gets even harder, and in the toilets it's impossible without violating privacy.

You can give bullies detentions etc. Some might stop bullying, some might not. You can eventually expel them then I guess, depending on how severe the bullying is. But ultimately the only person anyone can rely on most of all is themselves if they want something done about it. It would be nice if the teachers could and would do everything they can to fight bullying, but it'd be stupid to assume that they actually will do.

What I'm saying is that leaving the issue of bullying entirely up to the teachers to deal with is as foolish as leaving it entirely up to the kids. The teachers are there to help, not run a mirco-police state. It would give the kids in school the wrong idea... thinking that they can go out into the world and do what the hell they want (within the law) because there'l always be someone covering your ass. If someone gets assaulted through hate crime, it's wrong as hell, but again it's foolish to assume that something can necessarily be done about it every time. There might not always be witnesses, or CCTVs etc. Where you can, as you said, "tone it down", it's probably a good idea in some cases, though obviously can't apply to black people because that's stupid. So if you can't tone it down, or you're defiant and refuse to... there are I guess two other ways. You learn to stand up for yourself the hard way, or you sit at home all your life.

Across a person's lifetime there will almost certainly be an instance when the authorities/police/courts simply can't help, even if they try. Goes for teachers too. Except a teacher's number 1 job is to teach, that's just my view though.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 10:54 AM

Either way whether the teachers received very little training or not on how to deal with bullying, the comments the teachers made are still damn right disrespectful, Bullying happens everyday, teachers are aware of it, Training has nothing to do with it, No one is ever fully equipped to deal with bullying. The fact they had no training to me is just an excuse to get the focus away from the comments the teachers made.

There are ways to deal with bullying these comments are not one of them , its discrimination, and disrespectful and the comments are homophobic, there was no need for the comments, a better approach to this would have been : Punish the bullies in the way they need punishing, And help the victims. Explain to the bullies that everyone is different and not everyone is going to like the opposite sex, some people are going to like the same sex.

Dealing with bullying does not require training, it just requires teachers to take a stand against bullying and deal with bullying appropriately and fairly.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 06:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
?? Not once did I say anything about being 'gangster', you drew that merely from me mentioning racism against black people. And if someone is being bullied because they're black, and you immediately jump to 'it was probably their fault for acting so gangster'... well, let's just say it doesn't suprise me that you support the teachers in the case.

And while we're on the topic...



What on earth do you mean fake lisp? I get it now, you think being gay means wearing pink all the time and being black means being a gangster, but I've never heard anyone say that a gay stereotype is a fake lisp. Poor children with lisps all across the country must be getting beat up by homophobes.

Also, let's say someone does decide to wear pink everyday (and that wearing pink is the international sign of 'I'm gay!')- why should that person have to wear more blacks and whites just to make sure some bullies don't humiliate, tease, or physically abuse them? Why should anyone have to pretend to be someone else to make sure bullies don't bully them? That's kind of terrible advice. The bullies are the problem. If you approach the topic of bullying with the advice:

"Hey, kids, now remember; bullying is bad... so don't be yourselves!"

You're already failing.
First of all, if you were behaving in a sterotypical manner (Such as stereotypical black person.) then yes, you do deserve to be made fun of. I understand not all bullying is called for, but if it is then you need to do what you need to to fix it.

Gay people do intentionally (or sometimes non-intentionally) use a gay lisp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_lisp

However non-gays may naturally posess this kind of lisp. Any gay faking the lisp probably deserves to be beaten up by someone who really suffers from a lisp, because it's insulting. It's like me sitting in a wheelchair all day when I can walk perfectly fine, you deserve to be made fun of.

Shimmering Fairre: No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is being this:



in highschool is looking to be teased. No one is truly like that unless they are a transgendered person, which is again fine, but when acting in this mannerism intentionally and bitching when you get teased is stupid. It's again the same thing as: no all straight people feel the need to walk around all day and tell everyone how straight they are. Be like that, but suck it up, or don't act like a stereotypical gay/black/white and there will be nothing to tease anymore.

When acting in a stereotypial manner, expect to be treated stereotypically.

Again though. I'm not racist, anti-gay or anything like that, but honestly some people take pride in their race, sexuality, or gender too far.
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 06:30 PM

Justin... I get your argument, but somewhere your stuff doesn't fit together. I can't figure it out, but somewhere it's wrong. It starts with you saying:

"First of all, if you were behaving in a sterotypical manner (Such as stereotypical black person.) then yes, you do deserve to be made fun of."

Made fun of, aka bullied? I don't think people ever deserve to be bullied, unless they purposefully go out of their way to piss someone off and provoke them. Acting within a stereotype doesn't classify under that in my opinion.

I get your argument on one level and agree with it, but with respect to people "deserving" to get bullied, I don't. They can expect to get bullied, yes, that's different.

It's kind of similar to saying that if you go out to a crap neighbourhood at night, you deserve to get mugged, or stabbed or even shot.... no... that's what doesn't fit together in your argument.


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 06:42 PM

No matter how people chose to dress gay or not gay they should not be bullied for it, Straight people do not get bullied for dressing straight, why should gays get bullied for dressing gay ? They should not! It's just a sexual preference and a way of dressing.

Hell why not just tease everyone because everyone dresses different to some extent, Yeah hell why not ?

But that aside, in my opinion these teachers are just as bad as the bullies, School is supposed to be a place where you feel safe, safe to be yourself.

You say people deserve to made fun of it they chose to act and dress like the person in the photo ? So by logic anyone who is different should and deserves to be bullied. Which is not the case is it ? Because if that is the case then every single person in this whole wide world would be bullied. Everybody is different are they not ? Nobody deserves to be bullied!



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Shimmering Fairre: No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is being this:



in highschool is looking to be teased. No one is truly like that unless they are a transgendered person, which is again fine, but when acting in this mannerism intentionally and bitching when you get teased is stupid. It's again the same thing as: no all straight people feel the need to walk around all day and tell everyone how straight they are. Be like that, but suck it up, or don't act like a stereotypical gay/black/white and there will be nothing to tease anymore.

When acting in a stereotypial manner, expect to be treated stereotypically.

Again though. I'm not racist, anti-gay or anything like that, but honestly some people take pride in their race, sexuality, or gender too far.
- Justin
So people don't have the right to dress and look the way they want to? Since when? Seriously, people have the right to dress in this way, as a woman, as a man, as a chimpanzee for that matter. It doesn't give someone the right to bully that person. That's like wearing my favorite band on a tshirt and being called "emo" because they are a slow, rockish band. Is that fair? NO. Obviously, you're going to be hurt if you get bullied/teased/whatever. No one ASKS to get their feelings hurt. They just want to express who they are based on their looks and how they act. I think pride in one's race, sexuality, and gender is GREAT and there's no "taking it too far". Everyone deserves to be treated equally no matter how they look, act, speak, where they come from, etc. There is NO excuse for bullying. Period.
   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKmadu619 View Post
Shimmering Fairre: No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is being this:



in highschool is looking to be teased. No one is truly like that unless they are a transgendered person, which is again fine, but when acting in this mannerism intentionally and bitching when you get teased is stupid. It's again the same thing as: no all straight people feel the need to walk around all day and tell everyone how straight they are. Be like that, but suck it up, or don't act like a stereotypical gay/black/white and there will be nothing to tease anymore.

When acting in a stereotypial manner, expect to be treated stereotypically.

Again though. I'm not racist, anti-gay or anything like that, but honestly some people take pride in their race, sexuality, or gender too far.
- Justin
Your argument is just ridiculous. Plenty of children get teased for being gay regardless of whether they act in a stereotypical way. They will get teased regardless of what they wear. Your assumption that these kids were acting a certain way is not necessarily correct.

What you are saying is that people who don't fit into societal norms shouldn't act like themselves. Or that if they do act like themselves, they deserve to be tormented. How can you think that is okay? If a gay person wears something that a straight person probably wouldn't wear, they are not necessarily doing it to get attention. Perhaps they actually like to look like that? I don't understand why you won't consider the possibility that your idea of stereotypes might be what someone actually likes to look like.

I have to ask, if there was a pretty, blonde girl who was a cheerleader and got lots of attention from boys, would it be okay to bully her because the stereotype is that cheerleaders are bitchy? Would you tell her to stop being blonde, stop being a cheerleader, stop dating so that she wouldn't get bullied?

And whilst you keep saying you are not racist or anti-gay, that doesn't necessarily make that true. You hold a lot of unfair stereotypes about certain types of people as truth, which is a form of covert discrimination. You don't realise you are doing it, but it is still hurtful to people.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 11:32 PM

Ha. Ha. Ha.

You've all totally missed the nature of my posts., and have only noticed I said "do not behave in a larger than life way intentionally, unless you want to be noticed, which will follow in bullying.", and somehow this means I want all gays to be straight.

I mention a couple of common sterotypes that some people intentionally reinforce, and pointed out how they may be teased because of that, and somehow I want people to supress their true selves.

ShimmeringFaerie: If the girl was a cheerleader, that is not the issue. If she WAS intentionally acting bitchy or using a valley girl accent to somehow fit the sterotype, even though she really isn't a valley girl, and is then teased for that, she deserves it.

Bullying is different than teasing, and from what the article has confirmed, the boy in question was being teased, and he simply did not like it. The teacher told him to reel his act in a bit, and somehow this makes news. If the people were hurting him, tormenting him, or threatening him, that is totally different. If they simply insulted him, he should stop putting up a fake act that gets him taunted, or learn to cope.

And which sterotypes am I regarding as truth? If you actually read every word in my posts I say over and over "I realize not all gays/blacks/insert something here are like that."



Way to put words in my mouth folks.

Then again, don't leave this get in your way of roasting me, because everyone has a right to express themselves and their opinions, especially anyone in a minority! Unless you have an unpopular opinion against a minority, or looking at something from a less popular point of view, then you need to shut up, because minorities and everyone needs to express themsevles and their values!

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by believe.in.hope View Post

So people don't have the right to dress and look the way they want to? Since when? Seriously, people have the right to dress in this way, as a woman, as a man, as a chimpanzee for that matter. It doesn't give someone the right to bully that person. That's like wearing my favorite band on a tshirt and being called "emo" because they are a slow, rockish band. Is that fair? NO. Obviously, you're going to be hurt if you get bullied/teased/whatever. No one ASKS to get their feelings hurt. They just want to express who they are based on their looks and how they act. I think pride in one's race, sexuality, and gender is GREAT and there's no "taking it too far". Everyone deserves to be treated equally no matter how they look, act, speak, where they come from, etc. There is NO excuse for bullying. Period.
Because I totally said "bullies should never be reprimanded no matter what! Physical violence and emotional abuse are great". No one has the RIGHT to bully anyone.

People have the right to dress however they want, this does not overrule the right of free speech. Secondly, what is wrong with being called "emo". If that somehow manages to completely unhinge somone, they have bigger issues. If you have the right to wear the shirt, someone has the right to make a snarky comment. It's an opinion, albeit unfavourable, but not bullying. If they followed you around all day making suicide jokes or in any other way harassed you for an extended period of time, it would count as bullying.

No taking any pride too far? How about I like being white so much, I think we should eliminate all blacks, because being white is so cool. That wasn't a well though-out comment.

Everyone deserves equal treatment, however why is it fine for hetrosexual kids to be teased on occasion and told to stop being so annoying/obnoxious/rude/mean/stupid and it never makes headlines? Is that equal treatment? Equal treatment does not exist, because if this kid was hetrosexual, no one would even know about the issue.

There is no excuse for bullying. I agree, the thing is, let us stop making ourselves easy targets in some desperate attemp to tell everyone how gay/straight/black/white/smart/dumb we are. Everyone who needs to know these things knows. Let us not get too caught up in expressing these things.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 3rd 2011, 11:50 PM

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It's kind of similar to saying that if you go out to a crap neighbourhood at night, you deserve to get mugged, or stabbed or even shot.... no... that's what doesn't fit together in your argument.
While I'm picking apart posts, this seems like a great one to get my point across.

No, it doesn't justify being stabbed, the stabber should still be in trouble. If you just wandered into that neighbourhood, that's even worse.

On the other hand: (this part is my arguement) if you knew the neighbourhood was crap, but hung out there anyway because it somehow enforces the ideal you want to portray (Smart, Gay, Black, whatever) and then someone walks past you and glares at you, so you call 911 and the police give the the friendly piece of advice "try not to hang around here anymore" and you contact the papers because "you have the right to be in that neighbourhood", that is when you need to learn to shut up.

No one went any farther than teasing, the boy which is still wrong, but it's snarky comments instead of torment. The teacher simply told him he might want to try styling his hair differently or something, if he wanted to possibly stop the comments in the future. He overreated, and then ovvereacts again and contacts the papers to cry about this "injustice" that was really just friendly advice, because nothing sinister had occured so nothing could be done by authority.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 01:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by believe.in.hope View Post


So people don't have the right to dress and look the way they want to? Since when? Seriously, people have the right to dress in this way, as a woman, as a man, as a chimpanzee for that matter. It doesn't give someone the right to bully that person. That's like wearing my favorite band on a tshirt and being called "emo" because they are a slow, rockish band. Is that fair? NO. Obviously, you're going to be hurt if you get bullied/teased/whatever. No one ASKS to get their feelings hurt. They just want to express who they are based on their looks and how they act. I think pride in one's race, sexuality, and gender is GREAT and there's no "taking it too far". Everyone deserves to be treated equally no matter how they look, act, speak, where they come from, etc. There is NO excuse for bullying. Period.
I get where you're coming from, of course it's not an EXCUSE for bullying, but if you're different, you're going to get picked on. That's just how kids are, that's how humans are. If someone dresses and acts drastically differently than everyone else they should expect to be bullied. That doesn't mean it's right, of course. That includes guys who act like girls - it has nothing to do with their sexuality but rather their 'gay ' attitude. In the real world, if someone is over the top flamboyantly gay, they ARE going to run into problems, its inevitable. I certainly don't agree with this over the top 'anti bullying' crap lately. Any country that listens to Lady Gaga's ideas about how bullying should be 'illegal' are going to be the pussies of the planet.

I think the teacher should be possibly fired. What I don't think, is that what he said is homophobic, in any way sense or form.
   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 01:54 AM

Quote:
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I get where you're coming from, of course it's not an EXCUSE for bullying, but if you're different, you're going to get picked on. That's just how kids are, that's how humans are. If someone dresses and acts drastically differently than everyone else they should expect to be bullied. That doesn't mean it's right, of course. That includes guys who act like girls - it has nothing to do with their sexuality but rather their 'gay ' attitude. In the real world, if someone is over the top flamboyantly gay, they ARE going to run into problems, its inevitable. I certainly don't agree with this over the top 'anti bullying' crap lately. Any country that listens to Lady Gaga's ideas about how bullying should be 'illegal' are going to be the pussies of the planet.

I think the teacher should be possibly fired. What I don't think, is that what he said is homophobic, in any way sense or form.
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 07:42 PM

I will say it agian, Everyone is different, so by that logic everyone is going to get picked on because nobody is the same as somebody else, everybody is unique. The article is not about differences or anything of the sort, it is about students being bullied and teachers making homophobic comments, and teachers not stopping bullying.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 08:14 PM

I don't see the comments as homophobic. They aren't telling them to stop being gay. They aren't telling them that they deserve what they are getting because they are gay. All they are saying is that if they want to counteract some of the bullying they probably shouldn't act so flamboyant. Which honestly isn't horrible advice. There is no reason for a child in middle school or even high school to be acting over the top flamboyant. Honestly I have never understood that personality trait, I mean most girls don't even act that way. Personally I don't care what anyone's sexuality is and I think that if someone feels that they need to have a personality that screams their sexuality then they have issues. That doesn't mean that they deserve to be bullied, but honestly if the solution to stop the bullying is as simple as changing the way you act about certain people, what's the big deal?


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 08:25 PM

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Originally Posted by SquidPid View Post
I will say it agian, Everyone is different, so by that logic everyone is going to get picked on because nobody is the same as somebody else, everybody is unique. The article is not about differences or anything of the sort, it is about students being bullied and teachers making homophobic comments, and teachers not stopping bullying.
Some people are more different than others. Sometimes it's because they can't help it, like being born with a disability, sometimes it's because they're thoughtlessly just being different, sometimes it is even done out of pure arrogance and on purpose. I'll say it again too, that if you can help yourself, and try to blend in more if you can, you're probably less likely to get bullied.

I'm not pointing fingers saying people deserve to get bullied for any of those reasons, because they don't.


And the teacher's comments were not homophobic. They were stupid and immature, but not homophobic. And honestly about the teachers "not doing anything to stop bullying"... we only have a very brief 'snapshot' of what's going on in that school. The comment the teacher made in no way represents the entire school, or even the teacher's action, or inaction. It's a piece of advice given to students.

You can only judge the teacher's action or inaction based on an example of how they handle bullying on a case to case basis. As far as we know there might not even be any bullying going on in that school at all, it's very unlikely, but nonetheless, it's stupid to jump to conclusions.



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I don't see the comments as homophobic. They aren't telling them to stop being gay. They aren't telling them that they deserve what they are getting because they are gay. All they are saying is that if they want to counteract some of the bullying they probably shouldn't act so flamboyant. Which honestly isn't horrible advice. There is no reason for a child in middle school or even high school to be acting over the top flamboyant. Honestly I have never understood that personality trait, I mean most girls don't even act that way. Personally I don't care what anyone's sexuality is and I think that if someone feels that they need to have a personality that screams their sexuality then they have issues. That doesn't mean that they deserve to be bullied, but honestly if the solution to stop the bullying is as simple as changing the way you act about certain people, what's the big deal?
Very well said. I posted mine only a few seconds after yours I think. I get annoyed at people who act stupid, loud, exaggerate everything, drama queen and all that crap. I might snap sometimes if I'm in a particularly bad mood, and am trying to sleep and outside my window I can hear a whole load of noise. It has nothing to do with being gay, but being an idiot. I won't bully them... no, not unless someone particularly makes a consistent effort to irritate me, but just generally I'm not the type to bully. I'll have a one-off reaction and usually that's it.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 09:27 PM

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Originally Posted by BDF View Post
Very well said. I posted mine only a few seconds after yours I think. I get annoyed at people who act stupid, loud, exaggerate everything, drama queen and all that crap. I might snap sometimes if I'm in a particularly bad mood, and am trying to sleep and outside my window I can hear a whole load of noise. It has nothing to do with being gay, but being an idiot. I won't bully them... no, not unless someone particularly makes a consistent effort to irritate me, but just generally I'm not the type to bully. I'll have a one-off reaction and usually that's it.
Well what annoys me, and this might be a little off topic, but if a gay guy acts really annoyingly flamboyant and is a diva or a drama queen and either gets made fun of or people don't like them it HAS to be because they are gay. It can't possibly because they just have a crappy personality, no it HAS to be because they are attracted to guys. Well guess what most of the time that's actually not the case. Most of the time people don't like people like that because they are horribly annoying and stressful people to be around not because they have sex with guys.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 09:38 PM

thebigmole: I think I might be in love with you. You hit the nail right on the head.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 4th 2011, 09:42 PM

I know what your trying to say, but why should people have to blend in more due to being in fear of being bullied. Or why should have to blend in more to stop the bullying ? People should not have to blend in more because they fear exposing themselves will result in bullying and people should not have to blend in more in order to stop bullying.

Also once someone is labelled as gay are bullied for it whether they dress that way or not, no matter how much they change - they will still most likely get bullied, the solution to this problem : punish bullies.

Schools should have a policy on bullying which states what to do, how to deal with bullying , how to stop the bullying, how to help the victims and bullies alike.

But it seems most schools now days adopt the whole ' there is no bullying in my school' or the policy
'If we do no see it, it does not happen' and now the 'act less gay'

These sort of comments the one's I have listed above are the sort of comments a bullied student would not like to hear. Take this from me, someone who has been continuously for 6 years I had my fair share of comments like some of the ones above.

Schools need to be more aware that bullying happens and that when it does happen the school does not make comments like these.



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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by believe.in.hope View Post


So people don't have the right to dress and look the way they want to? Since when? Seriously, people have the right to dress in this way, as a woman, as a man, as a chimpanzee for that matter. It doesn't give someone the right to bully that person. That's like wearing my favorite band on a tshirt and being called "emo" because they are a slow, rockish band. Is that fair? NO. Obviously, you're going to be hurt if you get bullied/teased/whatever. No one ASKS to get their feelings hurt. They just want to express who they are based on their looks and how they act. I think pride in one's race, sexuality, and gender is GREAT and there's no "taking it too far". Everyone deserves to be treated equally no matter how they look, act, speak, where they come from, etc. There is NO excuse for bullying. Period.
Actually you're completely wrong in this instance.


While you may wear what you want, you have to accept the consequences of doing so. If I come in in a one-piece latex suit thing, then I'm going to get the piss taken out of me. That's how it works. Yes you have the right to do so, but if you dress differently you have to accept the consequences of doing so.


I don't think the advice was even that bad. The reason he was being bullied was his flamboyance. By acting flamboyant he's singling himself out for bullying, because bullies look for someone who's very different from the rest and tease them because of it. There's no reason you can't be gay and not be flamboyant. While a better solution would be to simply expel the bullies, I don't feel that, in themselves, the comments were in any way homophobic, I think the teacher just wanted to help.

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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 12:21 PM

Yes, unfortunately in the world we live in, you do need to be aware of this kind of stuff. The fact is though, people on this thread are acting like there are just these gay guys who are quiet and unassuming and one day they decided they were going to start dressing in pink 24/7, sing musical theatre songs whenever and wherever they possibly could, give people unsolicited fashion advice and just basically behave like a complete stereotypes to draw attention to themselves.

I have this friend who is gay, and kind of acts in a stereotypical manner about some things. For instance, he is obsessed with his hair, he loved fashion, he is a lady gaga fanatic, he is obsessed with Gossip Girl and Eurovision. Before I even talked to him I knew he was gay. Yet it took him about 3 or 4 months after knowing him for him to actually 'come out' to me. The other day I was having a conversation with him and he was telling me he was concerned because he'd kind of been mucking around with this guy and flirting with him as a joke, and he was worried what was going to happen if he 'found out' he was gay, even though everyone in the state basically knows, since having 'I LIKE HAVING SEX WITH MEN' tatooed on his head would not make it any more obvious than it already is. But he has no idea, because he isn't subscribing to a stereotype and acting like he thinks gay people 'should act'. That's just who is he, its just his personality. And what's wrong with that?

So if someone is purposefully drawing attention to themselves by wearing gay pride shirts 24/7 and kissing dudes all over campus, I'd agree, you probably need to either a) accept that people are going to notice or b) stop.

But if it's just your personality, the teachers have no place telling people to be a little less of who they are. Aside from just being bad and innapropriate advice, part of a teachers job is dealing with this crap, and you do that by stopping the bullying and the bullies, not going to the victim, finding what the bullies dislike about them and trying to 'get rid of it'. The teachers shouldn't be trying to make the bullies more comfortable, they should be trying to stop the behaviour.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 03:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
Yes, unfortunately in the world we live in, you do need to be aware of this kind of stuff. The fact is though, people on this thread are acting like there are just these gay guys who are quiet and unassuming and one day they decided they were going to start dressing in pink 24/7, sing musical theatre songs whenever and wherever they possibly could, give people unsolicited fashion advice and just basically behave like a complete stereotypes to draw attention to themselves.

I have this friend who is gay, and kind of acts in a stereotypical manner about some things. For instance, he is obsessed with his hair, he loved fashion, he is a lady gaga fanatic, he is obsessed with Gossip Girl and Eurovision. Before I even talked to him I knew he was gay. Yet it took him about 3 or 4 months after knowing him for him to actually 'come out' to me. The other day I was having a conversation with him and he was telling me he was concerned because he'd kind of been mucking around with this guy and flirting with him as a joke, and he was worried what was going to happen if he 'found out' he was gay, even though everyone in the state basically knows, since having 'I LIKE HAVING SEX WITH MEN' tatooed on his head would not make it any more obvious than it already is. But he has no idea, because he isn't subscribing to a stereotype and acting like he thinks gay people 'should act'. That's just who is he, its just his personality. And what's wrong with that?

So if someone is purposefully drawing attention to themselves by wearing gay pride shirts 24/7 and kissing dudes all over campus, I'd agree, you probably need to either a) accept that people are going to notice or b) stop.

But if it's just your personality, the teachers have no place telling people to be a little less of who they are. Aside from just being bad and innapropriate advice, part of a teachers job is dealing with this crap, and you do that by stopping the bullying and the bullies, not going to the victim, finding what the bullies dislike about them and trying to 'get rid of it'. The teachers shouldn't be trying to make the bullies more comfortable, they should be trying to stop the behaviour.
Let's clear this up with all the "stereotype" personalities, "you are who you are" etc etc....

Just look to the TV, or magazines, to get a gist of how gay people are portrayed. Too frequently, they behave in the "stereotype" way on TV. Other gay people watching TV, automatically and subconsciously in their mind identify with this stereotype. Why? Because they're gay themselves.

It's that simple. It's not their personality. It's a trait a lot of them pick up from watching stupid fucking stereotypes on TV, and they don't even realise it. Oh.. and this doesn't just happen to gay people. It happens to most of the population nowadays, especially during younger years... up to maybe 25?


All in all... I find it very difficult to believe that a lot of gay people act in this stereotypical way, because that's just how they are or happen to be purely by coincidence. Bullshit.

And the whole issue regarding gay stereotypes is made even more stupid. Being gay... as far as I understand it, isn't a state of mind, or belief, or anything like it usually. From what I've been told/heard, it's just what you are. Same way that some people are born black and some white, same way that I'm straight. Being "emo" on the other hand, for example, has deeper meaning, because you're actually embracing a sort of culture, of music, beliefs etc... . So embracing a gay stereotype seems totally stupid to me, because it's just a very shallow and naive attempt at trying to "be part of something" where there isn't really anything to be a part of anyway. The whole gay stereotype is just a very superficial masquerade, ultimately hiding... nothing, because there is nothing to hide. Completely pointless.


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; November 5th 2011 at 03:49 PM.
   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 04:23 PM

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Originally Posted by BDF View Post
Let's clear this up with all the "stereotype" personalities, "you are who you are" etc etc....

Just look to the TV, or magazines, to get a gist of how gay people are portrayed. Too frequently, they behave in the "stereotype" way on TV. Other gay people watching TV, automatically and subconsciously in their mind identify with this stereotype. Why? Because they're gay themselves.

It's that simple. It's not their personality. It's a trait a lot of them pick up from watching stupid fucking stereotypes on TV, and they don't even realise it. Oh.. and this doesn't just happen to gay people. It happens to most of the population nowadays, especially during younger years... up to maybe 25?


All in all... I find it very difficult to believe that a lot of gay people act in this stereotypical way, because that's just how they are or happen to be purely by coincidence. Bullshit.

And the whole issue regarding gay stereotypes is made even more stupid. Being gay... as far as I understand it, isn't a state of mind, or belief, or anything like it usually. From what I've been told/heard, it's just what you are. Same way that some people are born black and some white, same way that I'm straight. Being "emo" on the other hand, for example, has deeper meaning, because you're actually embracing a sort of culture, of music, beliefs etc... . So embracing a gay stereotype seems totally stupid to me, because it's just a very shallow and naive attempt at trying to "be part of something" where there isn't really anything to be a part of anyway. The whole gay stereotype is just a very superficial masquerade, ultimately hiding... nothing, because there is nothing to hide. Completely pointless.
A couple of tv producers didn't decide a few decades ago that from then on they would start portraying gay people with all these kinds of personality traits and then gay people started adopting them. Stereotypes are just labels born of generalisations, simplifications and exaggerations, however, as much as we all hate to admit it, often times they do come with a grain of salt.

How many gay people you know personally? And how many come across as stereotypical?

I know a lot, and I only really know two (including the one I mentioned) that you would be able to tell was gay straight away. But the others, you'd never really know unless you asked them or they told you. So if you're looking around and saying "Huh, look at all these gay people liking X, X and X... they can't all like that, must be faking it" you're totally missing the point. If someone acts in a stereotypical way of course you're going to know they're gay, but you're ignoring all the people around you who are gay but you don't know because they're not stereotypical. So maybe you encounter 85% non stereotypical gay people and 15% stereotypical gay people... but because you don't notice the 85% you just think that the 15% is representive of the majority.

I agree we pick up things we watch from tv, but I don't agree that it's that severe, that someone who would otherwise hate musical theatre or fashion or assless chaps would suddenly decide to LOVE them because gay people are 'supposed' to act that way. You can't go around telling people that it isn't their personality just because you think it's stereotypical, even if it is 'learned' and not natural, it's still their personalityl That goes for everyone, not just homosexuals.

And yes, I realise that being gay only means being attracted to the same sex and nothing to do with personality and what not, but when the teachers told the kids to be less gay they didn't mean they should have less attraction to the same sex.


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 04:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
A couple of tv producers didn't decide a few decades ago that from then on they would start portraying gay people with all these kinds of personality traits and then gay people started adopting them. Stereotypes are just labels born of generalisations, simplifications and exaggerations, however, as much as we all hate to admit it, often times they do come with a grain of salt.

How many gay people you know personally? And how many come across as stereotypical?

I know a lot, and I only really know two (including the one I mentioned) that you would be able to tell was gay straight away. But the others, you'd never really know unless you asked them or they told you. So if you're looking around and saying "Huh, look at all these gay people liking X, X and X... they can't all like that, must be faking it" you're totally missing the point. If someone acts in a stereotypical way of course you're going to know they're gay, but you're ignoring all the people around you who are gay but you don't know because they're not stereotypical. So maybe you encounter 85% non stereotypical gay people and 15% stereotypical gay people... but because you don't notice the 85% you just think that the 15% is representive of the majority.
I'd put that down mostly to differences between our countries. You're from Australia, I'm from UK. I generally hear that Australia is a much more "healthy" country in terms of almost everything, so I'd expect gay people over there to be on average more "normal".

As for how many gay people I've "known", either as a friend or a friend's friend, or not even a friend etc... enough to base my judgements on I think. Honestly, if I was to count, maybe around 30 since I started paying more attention to it when I was about 13. It's very difficult for me to just come up with a figure though, I never counted. Plus some are bi.. I don't know if they're included or not. But I can comfortably say that a majority of them had at least some stereotypical traits... as in I was pretty sure they were gay before anyone even told me.

As to the whole gay stereotype arising... I don't bloody know where it came from. It must have come from somewhere. I never blamed the TV producers, but my guess is that some prominent gay figure in the past perhaps had a lisp, was dramatic etc... and that's where all this crap may have originated from. Probably not just one person, but maybe several. The roots of such things are usually quite difficult to trace. It just spontaneously picks up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
I agree we pick up things we watch from tv, but I don't agree that it's that severe, that someone who would otherwise hate musical theatre or fashion or assless chaps would suddenly decide to LOVE them because gay people are 'supposed' to act that way. You can't go around telling people that it isn't their personality just because you think it's stereotypical, even if it is 'learned' and not natural, it's still their personalityl That goes for everyone, not just homosexuals.
You're oversimplifying it. Rarely does someone decide like that to suddenly act stupid. It takes time. Someone might not even realise they're gay until they're 13 or 14, but they would have seen how gays are portrayed on TV from a much younger age, and it'l click with them. They might suddenly think they're so different from everyone else, become insecure about it, and just lunge for the stereotype in attempt to identify with a crowd they think is more similar to themselves than the average person.


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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 5th 2011, 04:59 PM

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I don't have time to read the article right now. But saying teachers don't care is a major generalization and it's just not true. I can't speak for every teacher, but I know that myself as well as the many teachers and education majors that I personally know care, probably too much. Depending on the school, then I'd say the teachers should get some form of punishment for "homophobic" comments depending on what they were and how it came up and the kind of school (ie. religious vs public). I don't necessarily think they should be fired, but I don't know specifics. Like I said, I don't have time to read the article right now.
I get what you are saying about the generalization on the comment teachers just don't care. But most every teacher I have gone to about being bullied or sexually harassed when I was in school told me to grow up, and some even told me to stop being a baby.

On that note I think if schools have a no bully rule and they say in articals and all that stuff that they report to get there school out there for awards and stuff that they stick by it 100% and turns out its a bunch of bullshit I think those teachers should go to training and if it happens again they should be fired


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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 6th 2011, 04:37 AM

I've heard a lot of that stuff in health class. I've watched videos where people have been bullied because of their sexuality and the teachers and principals have told them to act "less gay" and never even punished the bullies. Some of these cases have even been brought to court. It's ridiculous. You shouldn't have to mask who you are just to prevent being bullied. Teachers and administration should actually uphold their zero-tolerance bullying policy and defend the rights of the bullied. I don't know about your schools, but in my student handbook it says that you won't be discriminated against based on sexuality, race, gender, etc, and what the teachers are doing is discriminating.


   
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Re: Teachers tell bullied kids to act less 'gay' - November 6th 2011, 07:47 AM

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I've heard a lot of that stuff in health class. I've watched videos where people have been bullied because of their sexuality and the teachers and principals have told them to act "less gay" and never even punished the bullies. Some of these cases have even been brought to court. It's ridiculous. You shouldn't have to mask who you are just to prevent being bullied. Teachers and administration should actually uphold their zero-tolerance bullying policy and defend the rights of the bullied. I don't know about your schools, but in my student handbook it says that you won't be discriminated against based on sexuality, race, gender, etc, and what the teachers are doing is discriminating.
Are you aware of the fact the term, "gay" has definitions other than sexuality, such as weak, acting stupid, overly happy and so forth? I doubt the teachers would be brought to court over this because the defense is pathetically easy: they meant the alternative definitions I listed but the kids had a poor vocabulary so they got saddened even more and ran home to mommy and daddy.

In order for the teachers to discriminate, they have to intentionally favour "non-gay" students while rejecting "gay" students. The article makes no reference to any favouritism and it indicates the students knew the teachers were at their wits end trying to help but didn't know what to do. There's no discrimination in any of that, you're just tossing around a buzz-word because heaven forbid, a teacher uses the word, "gay" in reference to a student.

If the teacher was discriminating, he/she would have to do something like this:

Timmy: Ms. Hotbottom, Danny is bullying me
Ms. Hotbottom: Shut the fuck up, he has every right in the world to bully you as you have the gay condition.
Class: *Laughter*
Ms. Hotbottom: OK class, who can tell me what the answer is to your quiz question? Timmy put your hand down, we all know where it's been and we don't need you infecting the air we breath. You know what, fuck you Timmy, get out of class and go see the principal.
Timmy: Why?
Ms.Hotbottom: BECAUSE YOU'RE A GAY COCK-SUCKER!!! For all we know, you could've raped Danny and that's why he's kicking you in the dick. This also means you failed the term test because you'll be in the principal's office while the rest of the class is writing it.

^^ That would be discriminating in a hilarious way.


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